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Delta Seeks Creditor Help To Fend Off US Air Bid  
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11333 times:

Delta Seeks Creditor Help to Fend Off US Air Bid: Report

NEW YORK ( Reuters) - Bankrupt Delta Air Lines Inc. (DALRQ.PK) is trying to rally support from creditors to help fend off a takeover bid by US Airways Group Inc. (LCC.N), the Wall Street Journal reported on its Web site on Friday.

Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein and other executives have held a series of conference calls with creditors to sift through terms of US Airways' offer, pressing creditors to back Delta's restructuring plan, the paper said.

More here: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/business/business-aero-delta.html

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2369 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11278 times:

Here is what I predict:

The creditors will act like the deal is "insufficient" to force the price up a little more. and they will have "concerns" over some other aspects, for the same reason.

DL will attempt to come up with better numbers than US if the creditors go along with DL's plan. Ultimately, they will accept the plan that puts more net dollars in their pockets.


User currently offlineFlydl2atl From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11177 times:

Does anybody have a list of Delta's largest creditors? If I recall correctly, Boeing is up there on the list. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for Boeing to back DL Mgmt. After all, future DL orders under the current mgmt are almost a lock and we're talking billions of dollars worth. However, if DL is aquired by US or UA wouldn't those same orders be in jeopardy of being lost to Airbus? I would think Boeing and Amex would definitely line up with DL MGMT. It seems they have a lot to lose with DL under USAirways.

User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11119 times:

TVNWZ, your're right on the money with this scenario/prediction. Having been on a few company boards (a few of them through merger and acquisition), this is to be expected.

User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11000 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 1):
DL will attempt to come up with better numbers than US if the creditors go along with DL's plan. Ultimately, they will accept the plan that puts more net dollars in their pockets.

Are you saying they will accept DL's plan or US's plan? Good God I hope this doesn't go through!

Jeremy


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6745 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10918 times:

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 2):
Does anybody have a list of Delta's largest creditors? If I recall correctly, Boeing is up there on the list.

The Delta pilots are up there on the list of unsecured creditors, since they were granted a large (around $2 billion if memory serves) unsecured claim in exchange for giving up additional wage concessions and agreeing to the pension plan termination. I believe the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation is also a large unsecured creditor.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 663 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10877 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):

The Delta pilots are up there on the list of unsecured creditors, since they were granted a large (around $2 billion if memory serves) unsecured claim in exchange for giving up additional wage concessions and agreeing to the pension plan termination. I believe the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation is also a large unsecured creditor.

Well I can tell you for sure that AMEX and GE Capital are numbers 1 and 2 on the unsecured creditors list because I had to do some accounts regarding the DL BK, however other than that I'm not allowed to divulge anything. Personally as a private citizen, I believe that the creditors will probably not accept the offer because they will be getting at most .25 on the dollar as they are owed 16 billion and are only guaranteed (cash) 4 billion from US with an additional $4 in stock options. A company such as AMEX or GE Capital or Boeing is not going to give up 75% of their cash investments into DL just to let it be taken off their hands. Unless we see 8-12 billion in cash being offered, the creditors will not let DL merge.

Cheers from BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10878 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 1):
The creditors will act like the deal is "insufficient" to force the price up a little more. and they will have "concerns" over some other aspects, for the same reason.

FYI, the Financial Times reported that Delta's unsecured debt was recently trading at around 40 cents on the dollar. For creditors money is all that matters... and US is beating the current 40 cents with their cash and stock offer.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10846 times:

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 2):
? If I recall correctly, Boeing is up there on the list. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for Boeing to back DL Mgmt. After all, future DL orders under the current mgmt are almost a lock and we're talking billions of dollars worth.

No doubt about that. Now, I don't know how much $$$ Boeing has actually given to Delta, but they definitely see the order potential they have with Delta, namely:
-At least 5 77Ls in addition to DL's current 5 777s on order
-At least 100 787s, if not even 150-200, depening on what DL would replace their 757s with
-Either around 100 additional orders, or (longterm) 200+ 737RS/Y1 orders.
In short, DL would be too valuable of a customer for Boeing to lose, and I'm sure Grinstein&Co will mention that to Boeing on a regular basis  Wink .


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10844 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 7):
FYI, the Financial Times reported that Delta's unsecured debt was recently trading at around 40 cents on the dollar. For creditors money is all that matters... and US is beating the current 40 cents with their cash and stock offer.

yeah, but it's cash AND STOCK.... and the stock might become worthless pretty quick, if the merger fails and the entire combined entity US/DL goes bankrupt...



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 885 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10789 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 1):
DL will attempt to come up with better numbers than US if the creditors go along with DL's plan. Ultimately, they will accept the plan that puts more net dollars in their pockets.

And this is potentially why the creditors may go along with US on this. I'm not saying they will. But in the end, they want to know which way will yield the biggest profit in the short and long term.

cheers.


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10779 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 6):
Well I can tell you for sure that AMEX and GE Capital are numbers 1 and 2 on the unsecured creditors list because I had to do some accounts regarding the DL BK, however other than that I'm not allowed to divulge anything.

Here is the list of the top 20 unsecured creditors from their filing...


1 BOEING COMMERCIAL AIRPLANE GROUP $3,718,340,366 FUTURE AIRCRAFT COMMITMENTS

2 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $924,895,000 DELTA AIR LINES 8.30%

3 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $537,500,000 DELTA AIR LINES 8.125% DUE 2039

4 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $499,340,000 DELTA AIR LINES 7.90%

5 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $497,585,000 MASSPORT SERIES A, B & C

6 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $350,000,000 DELTA AIR LINES INC. 8% CONVERTBLE

7 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $325,000,000 DELTA AIRLINES 2.875% CONV. SR.

8 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $295,495,000 DEVELP AUTH OF CLAYTON CNTY-A,

9 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $247,772,000 DELTA AIR LINES 10.00% SENIOR

10 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $135,202,000 8.00% NOTES DUE 2007

11 SUNTRUST BANK $124,770,000 FULTON COUNTY - OCIII

12 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $121,975,000 DELTA AIR LINES 7.70%

13 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $105,766,000 DELTA AIR LINES 9.75%

14 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $102,455,000 DELTA AIR LINES 9.00%

15 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $84,665,000 DELTA AIR LINES 10.125%

16 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $68,725,000 DELTA AIR LINES 10.375% DUE 2011

17 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $63,548,000 DELTA AIR LINES INC. 9.25% DUE 2022

18 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $54,329,000 DELTA AIR LINES INC. 10.375%

19 SUNTRUST BANK $29,900,000 FULTON COUNTY - 1992

20 THE BANK OF NEW YORK $27,500,000 DELTA AIR LINES MTN SERIES B

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 9):
yeah, but it's cash AND STOCK.... and the stock might become worthless pretty quick, if the merger fails and the entire combined entity US/DL goes bankrupt...

Well, you don't know how much is cash and how much is stock. And, judging from the market's reaction to the news and the result of the HP/US merger (AC made a killing), the market is looking at this proposed merger favourably.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2369 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10763 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
Are you saying they will accept DL's plan or US's plan? Good God I hope this doesn't go through!

The plan with the most net dollars.

Quoting Jcavinato (Reply 3):
TVNWZ, your're right on the money with this scenario/prediction. Having been on a few company boards (a few of them through merger and acquisition), this is to be expected.

Glad to find another board colleague!

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 7):
FYI, the Financial Times reported that Delta's unsecured debt was recently trading at around 40 cents on the dollar. For creditors money is all that matters... and US is beating the current 40 cents with their cash and stock offer

This is indeed a big indicator. And as noted by Haggis79, stock is important too. But, Haggis 79, Parker has a very, very good stock record. the faact that Citi is willing to pony up the $4B cash gets Wall Streets attention big time.

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 6):
A company such as AMEX or GE Capital or Boeing is not going to give up 75% of their cash investments into DL just to let it be taken off their hands. Unless we see 8-12 billion in cash being offered, the creditors will not let DL merge.

Sure they will. The creditors will go with the offer that they think is safest and nets them the most dollars. Parker has a track record that could make those creditors very comfortable. They are businessmen. they will go for the money.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8):
DL would be too valuable of a customer for Boeing to lose, and I'm sure Grinstein&Co will mention that to Boeing on a regular basis .

Who says Boeing would lose? The alliances of today, may be different tomorrow. Parker will tell Boeing what they need to hear to make them comfortable to accept the deal. Or he would not be doing the deal.

US management has looked at this inside and out. I would not be surprised if they haven't already talked to AMEX, Boeing, GE and others (in a strictly off the record, golf game at the club over drinks and a steak kinda way.)

These are not stupid people.

I have looked at the Power Point presentation in the US website and listened to the conference call. From a business point of view, which I know a lot more about than the airline point of view, this is an unbelievably attractive deal. The assumptions are conservative, the labor costs assume the highest rate and the math adds up and makes sense--as presented.

Strong plan. Strong track record with Wall Street. Interesting to see what happens.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6745 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10663 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 7):
FYI, the Financial Times reported that Delta's unsecured debt was recently trading at around 40 cents on the dollar. For creditors money is all that matters... and US is beating the current 40 cents with their cash and stock offer.

But the big question mark is the value of the stock being offered. Right now, LCC is trading at a P-E ratio of 128 (though the forward P-E ratio is 8). Moreover, LCC's share price is at a whopping 6.0 times the book value of the company; compare that to LUV at 1.91.

I don't believe this offer will be sweet enough to sway the creditors, and the escalation in the value of the unsecured debt to above the US Airways offer value probably corroborates that.


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10608 times:

I really hope this doesn't go through. I just think some mergers are a good idea, i.e. US + HP, and others are an extreamly bad idea, the proposed US+DL. I really hope DL can fend this off.


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3207 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10590 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 12):
Who says Boeing would lose? The alliances of today, may be different tomorrow. Parker will tell Boeing what they need to hear to make them comfortable to accept the deal. Or he would not be doing the deal.

Exactly! Well said!

I would assume it in many ways would actually be quite attractive to Boeing in terms of Additional 777 sales. We could see US Airways A333s dumped or redeployed elsewhere, and many of the 767 routes upgraded to larger equipment from a single hub. Operating the 764 or A333 that were previously 762/763 type flights will bring significant cost savings there in itself (provided they can be filled), now take that a step further and make all those flights 773ER or even as a stopgap measure some 744s, once again, provided they can be filled, you're going to see significant economies of scales gained. I' would think beoing's chances of scoring more longhaul aircraft is good. Possibly even additional 764 (because there are already a large fleet) and i'd say almost without question more 777s.

As for AMEX?
they'll go where the money is.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10400 times:

Please work. Can someone give me their opinion of if my mother would be O.K. if the merger were to go through with a senority date of 98 with DL? Nobody wants this to go through and if it does, it's bound to screw over thousands of employees. My mother says the new airline would have around 75,000 employees and DL currently employs about 65,000.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10388 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):
I believe the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation is also a large unsecured creditor.

They have 2.9B IIRC.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 16):
Nobody wants this to go through and if it does, it's bound to screw over thousands of employees.

And how many other families? I hate how Parker uses that word "synergies"...basically means streamline by eliminating people.

Delta can and will ward this off. UselessAir is the worst choice for a merger, and I hope the creditors feel the same way.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2071 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10356 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 16):
Please work. Can someone give me their opinion of if my mother would be O.K. if the merger were to go through with a senority date of 98 with DL? Nobody wants this to go through and if it does, it's bound to screw over thousands of employees. My mother says the new airline would have around 75,000 employees and DL currently employs about 65,000.

Depends on what she does and where she does it.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10302 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 6):
A company such as AMEX or GE Capital or Boeing is not going to give up 75% of their cash investments into DL just to let it be taken off their hands. Unless we see 8-12 billion in cash being offered, the creditors will not let DL merge.

And again, how much of DL would US really have to give up to please the FTC? A whole hell of alot more than one of the two east coast shuttles! They would have to cannibalize what is left between both of them that I highly doubt this plan will work. I think you're very correct that it will take more than $8 billion to get the big unsecured creditors at DL to fall for this manipulative scheme Parker has put into play.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
I don't believe this offer will be sweet enough to sway the creditors, and the escalation in the value of the unsecured debt to above the US Airways offer value probably corroborates that.

Which is exactly what I'm trying to point out above. This deal is MUCH MORE COMPLICATED than what people think, and isn't a slam dunk for DL going over to US.

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 9):
yeah, but it's cash AND STOCK.... and the stock might become worthless pretty quick, if the merger fails and the entire combined entity US/DL goes bankrupt...

And getting this thing to work is a major issue, and WILL GO BK faster than PanAm after they overbid for National.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
As for AMEX?
they'll go where the money is.

They sure as heck won't take .25 cents on the $$$ owed them by DL and run. They know a stand alone DL will make money and then they can get a real return rather than a fast cut of nothing.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 12):
These are not stupid people.

But some are obviously on the crack-pipe on the golf course thinking this will work! Fourteen months ago maybe, but at this point of the BK game i think it is a little too late.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 17):
Delta can and will ward this off. UselessAir is the worst choice for a merger, and I hope the creditors feel the same way.

If Boeing, GE Capitol and AMEX don't pull the plug on it first you can bet the FTC will say so.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFlydreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10036 times:

My guess is that the creditors are looking long term. The US offer isn't the most viable long term. The analysts say right time, wrong airline. My guess is that the creditors don't find Parker's current offer big enough, appealing enough. If UAL made an offer 10-15% bigger, it might be a more viable deal all around. The last thing the creditors want is for DL to start spending money left and right on the merger and then have it fall through or get blocked by the regulators.... so unless the buyout offer is much more than they look to get out of DL alone, it's not worth whatever risk comes with the deal.

It's AMEX, GE Capital and USBancorp that are going to be pulling the decision here. Doug's offer is financed by Citigroup, is pretty much at the limits of its financing, maybe Citi will give them more, but given that the US/HP merger is still having issues, and things aren't in the full swing of working yet, i don't know.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25086 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9817 times:
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Quoting Flydreamliner (Reply 20):
Doug's offer is financed by Citigroup, is pretty much at the limits of its financing

Citigroup won't be putting up all that money themselves. They'll act as underwriters and farm a lot of it out, to make some money on the side.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 885 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9732 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8):
No doubt about that. Now, I don't know how much $$$ Boeing has actually given to Delta, but they definitely see the order potential they have with Delta, namely:
-At least 5 77Ls in addition to DL's current 5 777s on order
-At least 100 787s, if not even 150-200, depening on what DL would replace their 757s with
-Either around 100 additional orders, or (longterm) 200+ 737RS/Y1 orders.
In short, DL would be too valuable of a customer for Boeing to lose, and I'm sure Grinstein&Co will mention that to Boeing on a regular basis   .

If Boeing sees better potential for increased profitability with US merging with DL, then they are going to support it, potentially, even being willing to help out with assurances of further orders. On a side note, why would anybody replace 757s with 787s of any type? 737s or whatever the Y1 in that size range would hopefully be much more likely (hopefully for DL's sake).

cheers.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9733 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 7):
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 1):The creditors will act like the deal is "insufficient" to force the price up a little more. and they will have "concerns" over some other aspects, for the same reason.
FYI, the Financial Times reported that Delta's unsecured debt was recently trading at around 40 cents on the dollar. For creditors money is all that matters... and US is beating the current 40 cents with their cash and stock offer.

My brother is a DL pilot, and the word among pilots is that their unsecured claim will go up to .50 cents on the dollar as this process goes forward.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9064 times:
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Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 12):
Who says Boeing would lose? The alliances of today, may be different tomorrow. Parker will tell Boeing what they need to hear to make them comfortable to accept the deal. Or he would not be doing the deal.

Correct. Boeing is probably talking to US, kind of like "ok we will go along with this if you promise us this . . ." Remember that US has fully repaid Airbus and no longer has a committment to them.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
As for AMEX?
they'll go where the money is.

IIRC the US Airways credit card is issued by Bank of America. Bank of America has recently begun offering AMEX cards. If this goes through look for the US Airways card to become an AMEX branded card through Bank of America.  Wink Amex may not have as much of a problem with this as others think. As for those who are saying they will not accept 25% ~"because a stand alone Delta will pay them back more." That is not how it works, when the BK is discharged it is decided at that time how much they will get on their unsecured debt.

Also I am not positive if the pilots own that much of DL right now, or if that becomes once the new stock is issued after the BK discharge.

Another thing is don't be surprised if Citigroup and Bank of New York aren't talking and getting one another to sign off on the deals with some backend transactions.


25 Post contains images Surfdog75 : DL should flood every profitable US/AWA route pair with capacity until LCC's stock price craters and Parker calls uncle. When their stock price goes d
26 Lufthansa : You forget, they're in bankruptcy. How do you think a bankruptcy court would react to that?(something to do with management not acting rationally and
27 BlazingCessna : I will guarantee that the FTC will can this merger. This is an idea that is worse than the Brabazon. This kind of idea makes the Edsel look like a rea
28 Post contains links Leelaw : US Air Seeks Allies for Bid Among Delta Bondholders By MELANIE TROTTMAN and EVAN PEREZ November 18, 2006 US Airways Group Inc. has begun trying to bui
29 KC135TopBoom : No, this is bad, very bad for Boeing. Remember that Airbus provided some of the BK exit money to US, after their second BK in 4 years. The money was
30 TropicBird : HP/US has no obligation to Airbus, that debt (loan) has been repaid and according to Parker, they can do as they please on aircraft selection.
31 KC135TopBoom : Then why is Airbus still showing the US order for the A-350-800-Mk.1?
32 Dallasnewark : I fail to follow your logic. If the stock of a company that made a bid goes up, it has been calculated that the company that is being taken over is u
33 Post contains images Surfdog75 : It pretty obvious they're just trying to kill off a stronger/better product before it can completely reorganize and put the hurt on them. $29 one-way
34 Post contains images Surfdog75 : It pretty obvious they're just trying to kill off a stronger/better product before it can completely reorganize and put the hurt on them. What would
35 SpruceMoose : I hadn't thought of this angle before. Could this whole thing be a ploy to get into Delta's books in advance of some other move by US? I mean, buying
36 Stewardess4u : About the Boeing thing. Who's to say US won't go all Boeing. They might. There has been some focus about US made products and the out-sourcing of jobs
37 Zone1 : Yes it is an advantage. It will allow them to see exactly where Delta makes their money. I read that Whithurst is really mad about this one. Naturall
38 Post contains images Bmacleod : What is DL's current cash-on-hand position? It's balance sheet must be still quite bad to attract a takeover by US Air, the smallest of the "Big Six -
39 Alitalia744 : DL has $4b cash on hand of which $3b is unrestricted.
40 TropicBird : My point was that they are not required to buy any aircraft from Airbus and I seem to recall one of their executives (Mr. Kirby?) mentioning they cou
41 ATLAaron : That would be called illegal and it would be hard for Parker to make deals from behind a cell. I don't think that is what is going on here. One word
42 LAXdude1023 : That doesnt stop upper management from doing things like that (im not talking about Parker specifically). White Collar crime like that is quite rampa
43 Jcavinato : The following was from an email a colleague sent along. It's insightful to this entire debate. ----------- With US proposing this merger it will drive
44 ATLAaron : That is a very good point that I had not yet thought about. He is right if they do not accept this, and they have to pay back higher amount to their
45 AirFrnt : Wow. After reading these posts, I really hope that we are a lot better about talking about Airlines, then we are about talking about financing. Some o
46 Zone1 : How much was the UA/US deal a few years ago? One thing that people have forgotten is that many people from congress have already come out against the
47 Dank : How are those mutually exclusive???? Just because they are no longer obligated to buying the plane doesn't mean that they don't want to. You imply by
48 Charger : Us repaid the loan, but until I see a credible source, (and not Parker said so, so it must be true), that says US has no obligation to buy Airbus pro
49 Post contains links ATLAaron : Here is your proof. People forget that US Airways under the loan agreement purchased 20 A350's, that was all that was required. This story also confi
50 SpruceMoose : Well, in fairness, I think the deal is going to stand or fall on the basis of financing we don't have any insight or visibility into. Once they agree
51 TropicBird : I believe the main reason for this merger is because Parker recognizes that consolidation is going to happen (and UAL's Tilton concurs). He wants to p
52 ATLAaron : I also wonder if maybe he wants to make sure he is the one doing the aquiring and not the one getting acquired.
53 TVNWZ : Exact opposite. Creditors look short term when you are BK. Exactly right. They are. The BK judge would do two things. 1) Not let it happen and 2) Fir
54 Charger : Nice try. 1st I did say a credible source, and not Doug Parker. This is a relaese from a company spokesman, Phil Gee, who probably in my opinion is j
55 Ikramerica : Honeslty, US has very little left to do with Airbus if they don't want to. 15 A321s on order, and 10 A332s. A350s are in limbo anyway. But there's no
56 ATLAaron : Wow. "Gee said the Tempe-based airline has since refinanced the Airbus loan and is no longer beholden to the consortium." That is from the article, a
57 Zone1 : Right now all they know is what is sent to the SEC and DOT. When they talk about doing "Due Diligence" they mean looking at everything, which include
58 Charger : Never said the AP is not a credible source. The link you provided stated what Gee said and what Parker said, and it's not like they would bend the tr
59 ChiGB1973 : When I read your comments, I looked at your age, thinking for sure you would be in the teenage category. Honestly, the only two sources possible for
60 Post contains links SLCUT2777 : Did you read the article from from USA Today on how service options will be slashed and routes monopolized? http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/
61 Post contains links AirFrnt : Which is why: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...s&q=senator+Delta&btnG=Search+News Yields exactly zero articles about actual senators objecting.
62 Post contains links Zone1 : Here is at least one article: http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...es/2006/11/15/1116bizdeltareg.html I'm pretty sure the Thursday Wall Street Jour
63 DeltaL1011man : U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson issued the following statement today in response to a proposed bid by U.S. Airways to merge with Delta. “As the largest
64 Sunking737 : When I was in PHX last month, we asked about Airbus V Boeing. US and Boeing are talking and making nice. It was Mr Wolf (USAir)who screwed Boeing. Eve
65 Charger : And what's the problem. I agree 100%. Because of the past relationship between Airbus and US, I see it almost as a shoe in that Airbus will get soem
66 ChiGB1973 : But in the end, that information came from either Airbus or US Airways. There is no possible way to get around this one. M
67 Charger : Ok What exactly is the problem here? The link that I was directed to was nothing more than a PR statement from Gee and Parker. Should that be taken a
68 Jacobin777 : I highly doubt one of DL's largest creditor (Boeing), which will have a huge say in how this gets structured, will allow HP/US to order any Airbus fr
69 SLCUT2777 : NOTICE THE TERM "UNCLEAR" What this merely means is that all the facts aren't together yet, but the data of southeastern and eastern seaboard airport
70 Mariner : Pretty much. Every public utterance about finances at US Airways made by any relevant officer is subject to review by the SEC and disciplinary measur
71 ATLAaron : No, the deal was between Airbus and US, there is no other company involved. If you are so sure, then find it. The financing deal was that US would ma
72 Planemaker : I would like to bring to everyone's attention that Boeing's unsecured claim, while the highest of the unsecured creditors, is not the claim that ever
73 Charger : That's all fine and good but not what I'm talking about. I agree the money was paid back and any other part of the agreement was probably met (20 A35
74 ATLAaron : And I showed you that with the link and that still was not good enough. Well now you do. Again you questioned it, I showed you proof in the form of a
75 Charger : I'm not angry at anything. If you read any of the posts I could care less about the whole situation. I listen to reason. I have openly agreed with yo
76 Post contains images Jacobin777 : But they still have a lot of secured finances too, such as deferred orders, deposits, etc. My point is if Airbus gave UA/HP a $250 million loan (whic
77 Post contains images Mariner : To quote Sam Goldwyn: a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. mariner
78 Jacobin777 : Which is a shame, because at the end of the day, a man (or woman) has nothing left but his (her) integrity and actions. Regards
79 Mariner : Um - I think he was being ironic. Making a serious point, yes, but with some humor. The problem being that two people of impeccable integrity may hav
80 Jacobin777 : Didn't know that.... This problem could also happen in a written agreement... Regards..
81 Planemaker : FYI, the examples you gave are not secured finances.
82 Jacobin777 : You are correct..I was abusing my terms, as deposits are not considered "secured finances" (thus, can't be applied as a "creditor)..but for practical
83 Post contains links Diamond : Please continue all DL/US merger conversations in one of these 5 official threads: Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation   http://www1.air
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