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Lufthansa And The 777  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15520 times:

Hello ,

I´ve been reading for about 1 year A.net , and I have today decided to join this great community , I hope to have a pleasant time discussing with you.

To the Topic :

As everybody has seen there are many Topics about LH ordering planes the next weeks - months .

But will LH order the 777 is a faq ...

I think it´s possible , my reasons :

LH has to wait at least 8-9 years to become a 787 or a 350XWB
some 744 are yet pretty old , imagine in 8 years...
Need for expansion.

LH cant wait so much time , concurrence like BA or AF/KL are expanding , they need an Aircraft that can fly 8 years and then be easily sold in the second hand market .

I think they´ll maybe buy the 773 , there´s just the 748 that is maybe a better solution than the 773...

What do you think ?

LHStarAlliance

110 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10584 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15477 times:

I know that LH is impressed by the positive experiences other airlines have with the 773, but I hope they go for 747-8I as it would fit far better. 773s would just rival the A346 which is already in LHs fleet, while 748s would be perfect replacements for many of their 744s, capacity growth and also an ideal aircraft to fill the huge gap between A346/773 and the A380. Looking at LH Cargo the new 747 makes more sense as well as they can´t rely only on smaller aircraft like the MD-11F and 777F there. Heard from LH Cargo they need larger aircraft to be competitive in future.

User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15312 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 1):
I know that LH is impressed by the positive experiences other airlines have with the 773

No matter how superior 77W is over A346 I doubt whether it is enough to add 77W instead of more A346.

Lufthansa have made their bed and are basically stuck with A346 as there are still many on order. Now they have to look on with envy at the likes of AF EK and in the near future SQ CX and QR who all have or will have substancial fleets of 777-300ER  wink 

No one expected the 77W to beat the A346 in operating economics. The talk early in this decade was that the A346 was expected to be superior to 77W In fact the reverse was true and upon the industry realising this the A346 as been slaughtered in the sales charts.

I doubt whether LH will get 77W but i they do it prove they really do aqire the 'best' aircraft...time will tell


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15304 times:

LH does have the 773s competitor already, the A346. Wouldn't it be easier to order some more of them. Or is fuel burn too much of an issue? Oil prices seem to be going the right way..

Once again, welcome to A.net!



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1032 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15089 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
LH does have the 773s competitor already, the A346. Wouldn't it be easier to order some more of them. Or is fuel burn too much of an issue? Oil prices seem to be going the right way..

Maybe the A380 options are actually conversions from the future A346?
Then LH can get 77W's whose performance is worth the acquisition trouble, or the 748I. That's how other airlines (EK, etc.) seem to be handling their 340 detachments.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14841 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 2):
Lufthansa have made their bed and are basically stuck with A346

But LH chief Pilot said that they are thinking of ordering 773 , when they already had the 346


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14753 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
LH does have the 773s competitor already, the A346. Wouldn't it be easier to order some more of them. Or is fuel burn too much of an issue? Oil prices seem to be going the right way..

Depends...

If fuel cost are high enough, at some point the superior fuel burn of the 773ER will justify the logistic expense of operating two fleets of aircraft. Another factor is the size of the respective fleets. If an airline operates enough of one type, economics of scale mitigates some of the cost issues of dual fleets.

Oil prices are indeed falling which works in the A346' favor. However, LH (and German firms in general) are very ecologically conscious and may not like wasting fossil fuel regardless of cost. Airbus was (still is?) prepared to offer LH fuel burn compensation payments. But as a counter-counter point, LH re-evaluated the 773ER when fuel prices were at their highest in 2004-2005, and decided to stick with the A346.

It'll be an interesting turn of events if LH does order the 773ER. Another coup for the 777LR program.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14689 times:

Operating 773 & 346 would not be a problem as all A/C are maintained by LH Technik and they maintain many 777 .

Are Pilots that fly 747 allowed to fly 777 without extra trainings?
If not this could be a Problem ...


User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2184 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 14557 times:

In the LH long haul order thread there's an LH insider who claims that LH view the 777 as a low quality aircraft, that it is less safe and comfortable than the 340 series. LH passengers hate 2-5-2 seating and the comfort of a plane is detrmined by the manufacturer so my guess is that Germans won't even board such a plane and would leave LH in droves. In light of these revelations whcich must come as a shock to the airline community, I'd say the 777 hasn't a chance.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 14476 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7):
Are Pilots that fly 747 allowed to fly 777 without extra trainings?

There is no common type rating between the 747 and 777 so additional training is required.

It requires 14 training days to convert from a 744 to a 777. It requires 22 days if the crew has no experience in a Boeing glass cockpit.

If LH decided to operate the 777, flight crew training would not be a significant issue...

Quoting Wingman (Reply 8):
In the LH long haul order thread there's an LH insider who claims that LH view the 777 as a low quality aircraft, is less safe and comfortable than the 340 series.

I can't imagine how LH came to that conclusion. Especially considering the hiccups LH faced with A346 EIS and the blade-rubbing issue on the Trent 500...

While "comfort" is subjective, what can't be denied are simple facts that:

- The 777 has maintained a significant advantage in dispatch reliability over more than a decade of revenue service.
- The 777 has required fewer AD than the A330/A340
- More 777 twinjets reach their intended destination than A340 quadjets.

Quoting Wingman (Reply 8):
LH passengers hate 2-5-2 seating and the comfort of a plane is detrmined by the manufacturer so my guess is that Germans won't even board such a plane and would leave LH in droves.

The comfort of the aircraft is determined by the cabin that LH decides to fit. Boeing has little influence on cabin comfort other than the fact that they chose a 240" fuselage diameter.

As for Germans hating 2+5+2, that would conclude the 787/A350 debate rather quickly...  Yeah sure

Quoting Wingman (Reply 8):
In light of these revelations whcich must come as a shock to the airline community, I'd say the 777 hasn't a chance.

It's shocking because it's practically unbelievable that an airline like LH would operate with assumptions that are frankly ass-backwards.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21421 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 14461 times:

Quoting Wingman (Reply 8):
LH passengers hate 2-5-2 seating and the comfort of a plane is detrmined by the manufacturer so my guess is that Germans won't even board such a plane and would leave LH in droves. In light of these revelations whcich must come as a shock to the airline community, I'd say the 777 hasn't a chance.

LH could always fit a 3-3-3 interior.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14397 times:

Quoting Wingman (Reply 8):
In the LH long haul order thread there's an LH insider who claims that LH view the 777 as a low quality aircraft, that it is less safe and comfortable than the 340 series. LH passengers hate 2-5-2 seating and the comfort of a plane is detrmined by the manufacturer so my guess is that Germans won't even board such a plane and would leave LH in droves. In light of these revelations whcich must come as a shock to the airline community, I'd say the 777 hasn't a chance.

I think this is exaggerated , big successful airlines fly the 777 , why should LH can´t . AF fly both and has good yields.

The 773 isn´t noisier or less comfortable than the 340


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14374 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 11):
The 773 isn´t noisier or less comfortable than the 340

Actually many do find the A340 cabin noticeably quieter than the 777. That leaves the seating configuration, but that's a topic you can debate to death...

IMO, the statement provided by Wingman lacks a factual base and would suggest that it comes from someone not responsible for fleet planning at all...


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14191 times:

It´s ridiculous the 777 is one of the best selling A/C , the airlines would buy 340´s if the 777 wouldn´t be better .

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10584 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14119 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
Actually many do find the A340 cabin noticeably quieter than the 777.

I fully agree with this point. The A340 ist exceptionelly quiet.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14026 times:

Maybe , but I doubt LH chooses an aircraft of the Noise Level.

To be honest I´ve never flown in a 777  Big grin But I´m looking forward to fly one ...
But my Brother has flown in a 777 and said that it´s really more Spacefully and Comfortable . I´m speaking about the 343 ... I like the 346 !


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13647 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 11):
The 773 isn´t noisier or less comfortable than the 340

340 is a quieter ride in economy. Up front, fairly similar.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13546 times:

Well, maybe the 343 is quieter , but the economics ofthe 773 are better .

What do you think of a 777F order , LH said some Months-Years ago that it´s to expensive .

I think if they buy some other B LR jets they could get a special offer of B ...

Could we see a LHCargo 777 ...?


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13182 times:

Quoting Wingman (Reply 8):
In the LH long haul order thread there's an LH insider who claims that LH view the 777 as a low quality aircraft, that it is less safe and comfortable than the 340 series. LH passengers hate 2-5-2 seating and the comfort of a plane is detrmined by the manufacturer so my guess is that Germans won't even board such a plane and would leave LH in droves. In light of these revelations whcich must come as a shock to the airline community, I'd say the 777 hasn't a chance.

Sorry this is complete nonsense. LH has stated that they are very impressed with the 777-300ER.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 17):
What do you think of a 777F order , LH said some Months-Years ago that it´s to expensive .

I think if they buy some other B LR jets they could get a special offer of B ...

Could we see a LHCargo 777 ...?

It is being evaluated together with the 747-8F but they said they only want aircraft type with cargo. The A380F is out. I guess we will see 777F and 777-300ER or 747-8Fs and 747-8Is.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13011 times:

There have been rumors, on and off over the past couple of years, that LH was taking a very serious look at the 777 family of airplanes, some rumors focused on the 773ER and other rumors have been about 772F aircraft. Insiders suggested that at times, the discussions were very serious.....now, much of the attention is on whether LH will order the 748I to bridge the gap between their A346 and A380 fleets, LH is a long time 747 operator and could look to the 748I, time will tell.

Many have dismissed the LH and the 773ER rumors, claiming that LH would ""never"" fly the A346 and 773ER side by side. While it is true that the A346 and 773ER are in the same category and it would probably not be optimal for LH to fly both the 773ER and A346....I do think that most of us have learned to "never say never" when it comes to discussing airlines and their fleets, just about anything can happen.

A couple of things to consider:

1. When I first heard about LH and a potential 773ER order, the thinking was that the 773ER would first supplement the LH longhaul fleet and then, over time, replace LH's A343 fleet and eventually help replace the 744s. LH would move to an A333/A346/773ER/A380 longhaul fleet - actually, a rather effecient mix of aircraft. A346s would be used for high capacity longhaul route up to about 10 hours and duration and the 773ERs would focus on the very longhaul segments.

2. While many think that LH wants to go all Airbus, nothing can be further from the truth. LH, like most major airlines, very much wants Boeing and Airbus to survive and prosper so that the two manufacturers will continue to develop new technology and will compete for each and every order. LH will order Boeing......we dont know which model, but more Boeings are in LH's future.

3. And, the 773ER is one hell of an airplane....the 773ER has proven to be a very effective asset on longhaul routes and the type has met and/or exceeded its peformance goals. You can be sure that LH is very much aware of just how good the 773ER is. As for the A346, LH seems satisfied with the type (if there werent, they would not have placed a followup order) but most agree that the 773ER is the class leader......and, I have never heard or read anything credible that has suggested that LH would replace their A346s with 773ERs, LH is (has) looked at the 773ER as an expansion airplane and/or as an eventual A343 and/or 744 replacement.

4. LH needs big airplanes with lots of seats to operate out of its main hub at FRA......as traffic grows, LH is facing limitations at its very important FRA hub and adding more and more frequencies, especially on longer haul flights, is not a practical option due to operational and airport limitations. The 773ER is one of the best choices for highdemand longhaul routes.

In summary, its unclear if LH will ever order the 773ER, but it certainly could happen.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12978 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
or 747-8Fs and 747-8Is

What A/C has better Economics , I presume the 748 as it´s more or less a new generation aircraft...


User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12940 times:

Logically, one would expect lufthansa, whom has a fair unbiased mixture of both boeing and airbus aircraft, to select the most cost efficient for their needs, while maintaining good service.
Thus, because the 777-300ER is more efficient, it should be such that Lufthansa would select this range. However, there are perfectly plausible explanantions as to why this is not true:

1. The 777-300ER was developed just before the A340-600 program was taking shape. Lufthansa may have thought that airbus would wait for the stats on the 777-300ER, and produce something superior.

2. Airbus may have offered the A340-600 at reduced costs to lufthansa, ouweighing the longterm investment savings.

3. Airbus has large german connections in terms of business, and may have been under indirect pressure from various powers.

It is more innefficient for Lufthansa to purchase the 777-300ER, because they already have the A340-600's to meet their demands.

This all relates to the 787/A350 sector. Lufthansa are interested in this sector. However, lufthansa has said it will wait for the developments to progress further to make a decision. They do not want to make the same mistake again.



Work Hard/Fly Right.
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12909 times:

And what about :

773 for 343 replacement

748 for gap between 346/773 and 380


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12886 times:

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 21):
This all relates to the 787/A350 sector. Lufthansa are interested in this sector. However, lufthansa has said it will wait for the developments to progress further to make a decision. They do not want to make the same mistake again.

But to get this A/C´s they´ve to wait until 2013-14 , so they need a good A/C for 7-8 year which can be sold then good in the second hand market when they get 787/350xwb


User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12861 times:

I agree very much, out of the 777F, and the 747-8, the 747-8 would be much more efficient.


Work Hard/Fly Right.
25 LHStarAlliance : So the Future LH fleet may be : 333/346/773/380 333/346/748/380 And 789/788/783 // 3510/359 replacing then 333 777 346...
26 CJAContinental : The future fleet would probably be: 333/346/748F/380 789/359 replacing 333. I don't really see the 777-3. However, I could be very wrong, for lufthans
27 CJAContinental : They could purchase the 747-8 to bridge the gap, though the amount would depend on how much the A/C would need to cover. (Anywhere from 2-12 A/C prob
28 DfwRevolution : No, the 773ER was launched about 3 years after the A346 was launched. The A346 was introduced into revenue service about 2 years before the 773ER as
29 CJAContinental : Damm, I feel like an arse, I was certain of the opposite, but thanks for that update. Sorry for that info LHstar alliance. Though Dfw, do you think th
30 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Eh.. live, learn, cheat with Wikipedia.. I agree with Dutchjet's assessment. It could happen, and I would like to see it happen, but I'm not holding
31 Gbfra : # 29 In this case you might not see a B748 in Lufthansa colours...I fear you have to make a choice here.[Edited 2006-11-19 00:50:18]
32 Stitch : The 787-9 would make an excellent A343 replacement as it has a cabin floor area almost identical to the A343 (and A333) while offering superior range,
33 Gbfra : Stitch So you do not see LH ordering the B748 although LH pushed Boeing hard to come up with this bird?
34 CJAContinental : If lufthansa are interested in a new cargo solution, then i think the 747-8 is likely. However, The three class capacity of a typical 777-3ER is arou
35 Stitch : I believe it depends on what LH's traffic pattern models spit out. A mixed A388/773 fleet would cover the "highs" and the "lows" of the traffic curre
36 ZRH : Why? The 343 are not too old, they can wait for the 787/350 to replace the 343.
37 LTU932 : They do have a few A340-311s which could, just could, be replaced in the short term, but personally, if the 77W is ordered, they'll be for expansion
38 Jfk777 : Lufthansa's world of choices. There are really no bad choices here, LH traditionally wanted four engines to their planes but with the A330-300 have re
39 LHStarAlliance : The Question is , Is the 4 engined 748 more economic than the 2 engined 773 ...
40 LHStarAlliance : to expand , and have better economics , sure they can fly the 343 8 years more but If you get a good offer of B , why not expand...
41 LHStarAlliance : This is sure they can´t wait´til 2013 , they need one " time gap " A/C How long must they wait until the 773 or the748 comes ?
42 ZKNBX : That's a loaded question, or rather, a somewhat misguided one. It will depend on a combo of purchase price from Boeing, tech support package and the
43 Post contains images PlaneHunter : It all depends on the overall costs of such a move. If it's cheaper to continue with the A346, LH will do it. The "best" solution is the most economi
44 Johnnybgoode : i disagree. LH was extremely unhappy with the dispatch reliability of the aircraft when if first entered service with LH. also, LH got an extremely s
45 LHStarAlliance : Expansion...
46 A342 : Just a remark: All this has already been discussed to death.
47 CJAContinental : The advantages of the 773ER, in terms of engines, are that in theory, less drag and weight would be an advantage, and lower maintenance costs would be
48 LHStarAlliance : Less seats , economics are far better with 2 engines...
49 Eugdog : I would be amazed if LH would ever order the 777 - the political pressure to order Airbus would be enormous - it would be most humiliating if they ord
50 Dutchjet : You gotta be kidding me.......not the political thing again, may I remind you that AF is a huge 772/773 operator? How did that happen under your humi
51 LHStarAlliance : AF has ordered 773 and anybody has put pressure on them , LH can order what they want without any pressure .
52 CJAContinental : One thing that must be pointed out is that, I have flown 777's before, and I agree that a 2-5-2 layout wouldn't be good as far as passenger comfort go
53 CJAContinental : sorry, did'nt see your reply, at least we agree.
54 Post contains links and images LHStarAlliance : A taste of how a LH 773 would be : PIC
55 PlaneHunter : Comments like these appear in daily routine on a.net, though not a single poster has yet been able to present ANY kind of evidence to support that cl
56 CJAContinental : So, lets stick to the subject at hand, assuming that politics and government are negligable. The question is are lufthansa looking for aircraft in the
57 Johnnybgoode : I mean no disrespect, but you are contradicting yourself with that statement. first, 773 for 343 replacement, then for expansion... please explain to
58 LHStarAlliance : If you fly to for example IAH with an 343 and you expand this route to an 773 it´s expansion I didn´t mean that , I mean If you have a 773 instead
59 Post contains images JoFMO : That just shows how much the French politics are in the hand of AF, they can even order B
60 CJAContinental : I know what your talking about. It's like when airbus talk about their 380 having the best economics out of any other aircraft. This can be a big misc
61 LHStarAlliance : You get it ... for some routes a 773 would be Perfect IAH , PHL , CCS , BOS It would be an Upgrade , this routes can handle a 773 maybe a 744 but not
62 Eugdog : The arguement that there is no political pressure on LH, Iberia or Air France to buy Airbus is silly. These are national flag carriers who enjoy massi
63 Johnnybgoode : as someone else stated, of course the total trip costs of an 748 or A380 will be higher than those of a 773 (on a comparable trip, of course). but th
64 CJAContinental : Probably, The 747-8 has a similar length to the 346, and that seems to be quite compatible with many airports. Height won't be a factor , similar to e
65 Stitch : It depends on when AF bought the A343s and what routes they flew them on. The A343 was available earlier then the 777 and while the 777 ended-up bein
66 Columba : According to your logic, BA already must have a huge A330, A340 fleet and A380s on order and before operated A310s and A300s.
67 Dutchjet : Should US politicians require US/UA/AA/NW/B6 to dispose of their Airbus aircraft immediately and replace them with Boeings? How many times will this
68 Jacobin777 : Stich, while I'm not so sure when AF ordered the 777's and A340s, the 777 (1990) was offered only a couple of years after the A340 (1988)....
69 Post contains images CJAContinental : Yeah, I think even if the US government were that bothered, I think southwest airlines would settle any problems as far as buying boeing is concerned!
70 LHStarAlliance : A good reason to order the 773 would be : Some airports can't handle a 748 so they need an aircraft (like the 343 ) that can fly into this airports ,
71 CJAContinental : They would keep 330 on low demand routes definately. Do lufthansa desperately need more aircraft with that capacity, to place on routes. More importan
72 Post contains images PlaneHunter : LH was completely privatized in 1997. And which particular "pressure" are you talking about? Tell us an example - facts rather than speculations. LH
73 LHStarAlliance : Yes , they need an bigger A/C , and they can´t fly 7-8 year more the 343 ( maybe some yes but the most are old) imagine concurrents like NH flying t
74 Post contains links CJAContinental : I have investigated, and found the following site interesting: www.cei.org/gencon/004,04679.cfm It seems to suggest that, undeniably, huge finance com
75 Eugdog : The Germans and the French Government have poured billions into Airbus and see Airbus as prestege European project and an example of government/busine
76 CJAContinental : Yes, some of this could be true, though some of this can only go on for certain extents. This is because the german government will want lufthansa to
77 LHStarAlliance : LH is sure at least so important as A , LH has 90000-94000 employees in Germany and 2000 new will join .
78 LTU932 : Yet CCS receives flights from CDG with an AF 747. SJO can't handle the A346 ramp wise, yet they receive daily IB A346s from MAD, so I don't see why C
79 CJAContinental : So, 777's for lufthansa then.
80 PlaneHunter : It's even more ludicrous to automatically assume and repeatedly claim - without presenting any single piece of evidence - that there is political pre
81 CJAContinental : let's not get off the subject, not politics, 777's.
82 TodaReisinger : 777 doesn't automatically mean 2-5-2....it can be 3-3-3 (or maybe 2-4-3 as was the case in Swissair's DC-10 and MD-11 ?). On a side note, I must say
83 CJAContinental : Though I haven't flown on A330's or A340's, the comfort I found on a BA 777-200ER, in 3-3-3 configuration was very good, I didn't really feel cramped,
84 JAL : LH seems uniterested in ordering from Boeing, which is a shame.
85 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : You can write this , 1000 times they´ll not accept it ... This is true ... A Survey said that LH is the most reputable and esteemed Company in Germa
86 PlaneHunter : LH is only interested in operating the most suitable aircraft in order to make profit. PH
87 CJAContinental : That is what I have found, despite the facts on the governments regulating european slots, it would just be to costly for the government to do that to
88 Johnnybgoode : what is your obession with CCS? i don't see any relevance of whether or not the airport can take 748s in light of LH's impending longhaul order? LH s
89 CJAContinental : I was referring to the fact that lufthansa replaced the 343 on that route with a 346. There are many routes in which they operate the 343, and may be
90 LTU932 : Can you factually back up your claim?
91 Atmx2000 : Airbus didn't have anything remotely close to the 747 in size and range, so unless they wanted to make LH uncompetitive they wouldn't stand in the wa
92 CJAContinental : I can't argue with that, though what about its 767's?
93 USAF336TFS : Correct. If this were true, then they'd be breaking out the guillotines in Paris for the Fleet managers on Air France's staff. Then why was Mayrhuber
94 JAL : I'll believe it when they actually orders from Boeing.
95 Post contains images Atmx2000 : No 767s ordered by LH, though there were a small number ordered by Condor Apparently when French airline CEOs threaten to resign, French transport mi
96 Columba : LH said they wanted to order a replacement for the A340-300 this year. Because of Airbus they have postponed their decision until early-mid 207. They
97 Post contains images SailorOrion : One thing not to forget in the discussion about aircraft types is field performance. MUC, while not being an "extreme" airport like DEN, JNB or MEX, m
98 A342 : Yes, they present the data ! I have the chart and the A340-300 with CFM56-5C4 engines has no problem with ISA + 15° and 13000ft runway, it takes off
99 Post contains images Boeing767-300 : Ever noticed the irony in those customer codes..
100 Columba : Actually I don´t ! Maybe you could help me out ?
101 Post contains images CJAContinental : Very good
102 Johnnybgoode : I never doubted that. but whether they order the 787 or the A350, they will have to wait for years before receiving the first unit, let alone replaci
103 CJAContinental : Is it not possible that they may want to replace the A340-300's with 777-300ER's? I know I keep mentioning this, they did do this on IAH, replacing a
104 Burkhard : As I understand, they only search replacement for the 7 A340-300, not for bulk of the newer A340-300X. The 777-300 is much to large ro replace them -
105 LHStarAlliance : Maybe not all , but some for expansion...
106 Post contains images Stitch : Well now that the A359 is delayed until at least mid-2013 and the A350-1000 delayed until at least 2015, the 777-300ER's prospects at LH might have im
107 LHStarAlliance : I think the possibilities for a 773 are higher than ever... They have to wait until 2013 to get a 787 , and ~ 2014 to get a 350 And they could become
108 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : What do you think?
109 Johnnybgoode : there will certainly be room for an increase of capacity as in the valid example of FRA-IAH. but as Burkhard points out... so LH operates 26 A343s, a
110 Columba : They will get 7 more A330s and maybe they will order more....777-300ER and A330 are the best aircraft to get at the moment.
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