Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56 Posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4843 times:
About 20 years ago, when airline route networks were not so focused on hubs and frequent service to/from hub cities, we saw many large aircraft on shorter-haul domestic routes. National (1st) flew 747s between JFK and MIA, and DC-10s from all New York airports to many Florida cities (I think at one time they were all wide-body between NYC and Florida), Eatern and Delta had many L-1011s flying between the Northeast and Atlanta and Florida, American used DC-10s between many Northeast cities and Chicago and Dallas, etc, etc.
Do you think we will see the return of larger aircraft to such domestic services? It seems that now, even the most heavily traveled US domestic routes (transcon and Hawaii excepted) are limited to narrow-body aircraft.
DIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 711 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4731 times:
UA flies wide body aircraft extensively between hubs. If you check their schedules you can see 747, 777, 767 and DC-10 (this is now very rare) flights between ORD, DEN, SFO, IAD, and LAX. In some instances, you can find wide bodies to non-hub cities. UA flies the 777 between SEA and DEN as part of the extension from NRT.
FLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4693 times:
I seriously doubt it. Keep in mind that at the time of the 747's flying JFK-MIA, there were very few flights each day. Now, there might be 30 or more flights in that very market...widebodies would oversaturate the market and reduce profits significantly.
Modesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2893 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4664 times:
Delta uses its widebodies on many domestic flights. For example, SFO-LAX and JFK-SFO are 767 flights. And obviously, Delta has countless widebodies between ATL and MCO, MIA, FLL, etc... They also fly their MD-11s between ATL-PDX (continuing on to NRT). And they use L-1011s on SLC-LAX, LAX-ATL, SFO-ATL...
A350-200 From France, joined Oct 2000, 150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4659 times:
As frequencies increase (shuttle concept) the need for widebodies is lower.
I don't know the american market so well, but in France it is the same pattern:
A-300 and for a while A 330 used to be in service for domestic french links, but now only MD-83, 737 and A320/319/321 are in service. On the other hand there is now a flight every 30 min. during peak hours between main cities, where there used to be far less frequencies before.
This trend seems to be the same for the US (whith much more traffic) where 747 and DC10 seems to be less used.
An interesting place to study is Japan: they're using 747s for short hauls, AND frequencies are impressive (747SR shuttles !).
777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4628 times:
Back in the day, the flagship routes were the evening transcons. It was a status symbol for an airline to have a 747 flying at 9pm between JFK and LAX or some other high-class city pair. United, American, TWA, Pan Am, they all had 'em. Those days are long gone. Now, the 9pm departure to LAX is almost always a 757, occasionally a 767, never larger than the all-too-rare 777. Back then, you got meals served on a tray that fit the entire table perfectly, no room to spare. Your 747 was set up 3-4-2, perfect for couples and families alike. Today, your tray gives you enough room for a book and two drinks, in addition (or should I say subtraction) to poor-quality food. The 777 that you are lucky to be on is set up 2-5-2, and the flight attendants don't care as much about you as they did in the '70s.
Trintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4600 times:
Japan is a different type of market from the US as it has very heavy domestic traffic but relatively few destinations per se. This concentrated traffic flow thus makes the -SR versions of the 747s profitable for use there. In the US the very large number of cities present and the scattered service which results favours the narrowbodies, especially if a hub-and-spokes pattern is considered. The hubs may be linked by heavies such as 767 or 777 but very often 757 is used instead.
Air Jamaica uses its widebodies frequently between Kingston and Montego Bay but those domestic sectors, while available for passengers, are parts of international flights and are merely flown to ensure that passengers headed overseas on the flights (eg to JFK) are able to get on at both KIN and MBJ. BWIA used to do the same, with the TriStar flying from Port of Spain to Tobago and then to Frankfurt. In that case the tourist traffic which was sought got off in Tobago while the domestic sector merely got the plane to and from base.
LanChileA340 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4574 times:
Well what I can contribute to the overall objective of this topic is that Lan Chile Airlines, a member of the oneworld alliance is currently operating the high-density Santiago-Concepción (SCL-CCP) domestic flight within Chile with an Airbus A340-300 (275 pax) twice daily, every day. (1 hr 10min flight).
Lxlgu From South Africa, joined Sep 2000, 1085 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4558 times:
I see LAN CHILE have now got the 737 on
Santiago Concepcion on the new schedule.I know
they used to have 340 on the route because I have
booked it before
Tell me-how is Avant Airlines doing it and how they
compare to LAN CHILE
SRA330-223 From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 158 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4505 times:
Flying wide bodies on short haul routes is pretty easy in Japan ! Japans domestic flights last mostly no longer than 1.5 hours (exept Japan Trans Ocean Air that operates some domestic flights out of Haneda to Okinawa=around 3 hours).
Well, just an example of the Haneda-Sapporo route:
JAL operates 13 daily flights from Haneda to Sapporo using some of their newest aircraft that are Boeing 777-200s (Super Seat 12, Economy 377) or other types like teh Boeing 747-400D (Super Seat 24, Economy 544!). Other types used on that route are B767 and 747 Classics.
Also JAS and ANA operate the same sized aircraft on domestic routes and JAS 777s even have PTVs for every Economy Pax !
FirstClass! From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (15 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4495 times:
The last major airline to use some widebodies from EWR(NYC) to Florida was Continental from early to mid 1990s. Most of the Florida destinations was serviced by one or two flights by the A300.
The purchase of the 753 shows that CO is staying from the widebody on the EWR-Florida segment,even though there is increasing demand for this service. However, most new widebody aircraft initiated on CO(i.e. B777, B764) flew a trial run from EWR to MCO and back.
My theory is that if loads get super-good on the 753, then maybe some 764s may be used. This strategy is similar to what airlines are using w/ RJs and upgrading them to mainline aircraft when loads are good on the RJs.