Silverstreak From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 281 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1677 times:
Does the Il-96 still serve North America? I never see the 96 anymore, only the 767s seem to come to San Francisco. I miss seeing the 96s, they are interesting airliners (though I've heard they have troublesome engines).
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1644 times:
From where does Aeroflot serve Havana? Most of the Havana services transferred to Miami several years ago.
Havana could not be served from Russia by an IL96 without a stop in one of Shannon, Gander, Madrid or the Azores, as the great circle route is 5972 nautical miles against the prevailing winds on the westbound leg.
BTW, when the IL96 served Sea-Tac, which routing did it take? The shortest route is the great circle route over Finland, Norway, Greenland and Canada at 5236nm but I suspect the flight was across Siberia, so where was the stop?
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1611 times:
Sorry guys, perhaps I should have phrased that all flights transitting Havana to South and Central America .
As far as Havana is concerned, I would be surprised if it has been completely dropped but can't place the routing.
The Russian Air Force fly irregularly to Cuba through Shannon and Gander using AN124s loaded with trucks for the Cuban police and army. There have been a couple of flights this year but I know of one that was cancelled when the Cubans defaulted on payment for the previous delivery!
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1599 times:
As far as I know, Havana has not been dropped by Aeroflot. They used to fly SU 334 from MEX-HAV-SNN-SVO (A310 or 767) on wednesdays. A friend of mine did that flight last february. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Anzff From Australia, joined May 2000, 138 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1589 times:
The schedules section at www.aeroflot.ru says that they are still flying:
SU336 Lima-Havana-Moscow with a IL96-300 once a week; and
SU334 Mexico City-Havana-Shannon-Moscow also with IL96-300 once a week.
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1580 times:
Living close to SNN, monitoring HF on the North Atlantic net and visiting SNN regularly, I can assure you that SU is not flying any IL96 through SNN, the A310 service which did a round robin to South America via Miami has been dropped and the 767 Chicago service is all that is left of a once large Aeroflot presence at SNN, and, as I stated earlier, it is augmented by the TU134 service t/f Moscow.
There is a reference in the Shannon timetable to an eastbound service to Moscow from Washington, but that rarely appears.
The Aeroflot timetable pages on the web date from 1997/8 and show a much more extensive operation through SNN - I wish it was still in place.
So the Havana mystery remains. The following appeared on 12 November 1999 but gives no real detail:
AEROFLOT AND CUBANA DE AVICION BEGIN JOINT FLIGHTS
HAVANA, 9 Nov. (Prime-TASS) - On 5 November in Havana, Aeroflot-Russian International Airlines and Cubana de Avicion C.A., Cuba, signed a cooperation agreement on operating regular joint flights on the routes Moscow-Havana-Moscow and Havana-Lima-Havana. The flights will use Aeroflot's aircraft.
According to Aeroflot general director Valery Okulov, the agreement will provide the opportunity to operate the joint flights more efficiently, to increase traffic volume, and to improve the quality of service.
"Our joint Moscow-Havana flight will bring passengers to the Cuban capital, and from there Cubana airlines will carry them to popular Latin American resorts," said Mr. Okulov. "Aeroflot offers services to our potential passengers from Latin America for flights not only to Moscow, but also further: to the countries of South Eastern Asia, Japan, China as well as Eastern Europe."
Source: Independent Media
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1573 times:
What date is on that timetable pls? The Miami flight DOES NOT come through Shannon any more. If you dont believe me go to the Shannon Airport page on the Web via any search engine and look for yourself.
Having spent an hour today looking at various Aeroflot timetables, they all date between 1997 and 1999. The Miami via Shannon stopped in July 2000
As for the IL96 flight, unless the aircraft is lightly loaded it should be around 400 miles short on range for Moscow - Havana direct. I doubt they get anything like the 300 pax capacity, or carry too much in the hold as the Cubans have now to pay in hard currency for Russian and CIS goods and aren't buying too much, so the aircraft may make the trip direct. Does anyone KNOW?
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1571 times:
I've contacted a friend who is a ATC watch supervisor at SNN and knows the Aeroflot guys better than I.
He tells me that the SNN stop was dropped as, although SU had fifth freedom rights to Miami (a neighbour used the trip about four years ago) the SNN loads were very light and the aircraft didn't need the stop.
He will try to get details of the Moscow - Havana situation when he next sees the guys, which may be Wednesday.
Looking back through the HF logs for the summer produced by myself and a number of guys either side of the Atlantic, which between us give almost 24/7 coverage, I can't find any Aeroflot flights without SELCAL on the North Atlantic (Shannon/Gander) NATS Nets. All western built Aeroflot aircraft have SELCAL, IL96s do not.
Basically, this means that all flights heard were operated by A310/B767/B777. I do have a couple of IL96 Moscow Havana rotations but these were with the government aircraft early in the year and in 1999 and both times the aircraft stopped at SNN westbound and went eastbound direct.
I fully believe that Havana is still served but my guess is that the flight goes via Madrid or Lisbon where they may not have fifth freedom rights, so may not mention the tech stop in their timetable. As we rarely monitor Santa Maria and New York HF, the flights would not show on our logs. The route that way is a total of 6777 nm, so a stop would be needed unless very lightly loaded and on a day with little wind at cruise level
Ben From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1566 times:
If you want to find out exactly what's happening, you can do a 'availability' search on www.amadeus.net It will show you details according to the latest published schedule, even last-minute equipment changes.
Go to the 'Travel Website', then 'Availability'.
It displays aircraft type and number of stops.
Yes as far as I've seen, SU operates SVO-HAV nonstop three or four times per week with an IL9. One of them goes on to Lima under a CU flight number. Others may continue to other South American cities.
Aeroflot have been increasing their IL9 operations in the last month. Loads more SE Asian and India/Pakistan flights are now with the Il-96. Got a lot in a LHR this summer too! Good news!
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1563 times:
SU/CU333 is shown as a nonstop codeshare using IL96, so which way does it go as the flight time is given as 13 hours 10 minutes and we just don't here that flight these days on HF on the Shanwick- Gander net?
Has the IL96 got that range, or is a tech stop in the Iberian peninsular not shown on Amadeus?
This one is really bugging me, but thanks to everyone who has helped so far.
Ilyushin96M From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2609 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1544 times:
In addition to its current fleet, Aeroflot Russian Airlines is planning purchases of 4 more 767-300ERs and has 17 Ilyushin IL96Ms on order. I thought Aeroflot's current 767 fleet was made up of six total aircraft - or were the EI-registered planes returned to their lessors?
I have not heard of any plans for Aeroflot to acquire 737NGs; if anything, I think they will order TU204s, now that the 737 Classic series is out of production. They may need to supplement the 10 737-400s eventually, but they may be able to acquire a substantial number second-hand if they want them.
The Aeroflot website is very out of date and can't really be relied upon for fleet numbers. I don't think the TU134 is used much on routes to Europe nowadays, at least I hope it isn't. For surely, this is the least desireable of all Aeroflot planes, unless you count YAK40 and YAK42, which don't fly international routes.
The oddest thing about Aeroflot is the unpredictability of aircraft types on its routes. I know that SVO-LHR is served by A310s, IL86s, IL96-300s, 777s and TU154Ms. I'm not certain, but I think the variation in aircraft is due to higher and lower demand. Most other flights from SVO to Europe are flown by smaller-capacity aircraft. This was the reason behind Aeroflot's purchase of the 10 737-400s - to provide quality flights aboard Western aircraft to many European destinations.
PhilB, from what I know of the IL96-300, it doesn't have the range to do SVO-HAV non-stop. It can only fly 4500 or so nm on its current pax and fuel capacity. Although with a light load of pax and cargo, who knows, the range may be increased. I don't know if even a 763 can make that flight non-stop.
As of last summer, Aeroflot's ORD-SVO 763 flight wasn't making a stop in Shannon; I took that flight at the end of May. As well, there was no stop on the return leg. There is no ORD-LED flight that I am aware of, unless the ORD-SVO flight sometimes stops over at LED. This was not the case last summer; it was direct ORD-SVO and SVO-ORD. However, Aeroflot operates certain flights into and out of LED which continue on to other destinations - LAX-LED-SVO, SFO-LED-SVO, JFK-LED-SVO. The aircraft I flew on LED-SVO last summer was the 763 having just arrived from SFO, as a matter of fact; Aeroflot uses it on the domestic route for convenience. The IL86 and IL62 were the only aircraft requiring fueling stops at Shannon. With the introduction of newer, longer-range aircraft into service, Aeroflot has virtually eliminated both its Shannon and Gander stop-overs.
Concerning SEA-SVO, I don't believe there was a stop en route with the IL96-300. The aircraft is fully capable of making SVO-LAX, SVO-SFO and SVO-SEA non-stop - I know several people who have taken those flights. I flew SFO-ANC-SVO in 1993; the IL62 flew from SFO up the West Coast and over Canada and across to ANC, made a fueling stop, then over Nome and up towards Russia, arcing across the big landmass and down to SVO. The flight took about 12 hours, broken into 5 and 7 hour stretches. I was shown the route by one of the cabin attendants, who came around with a map. I am not certain Aeroflot uses this routing currently, because surely non-stop flights from the US West Coast to SVO are more easily flown across the continental US then over the North Atlantic.
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6307 posts, RR: 56 Reply 22, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1529 times:
Aeroflot hasn't had the 777s scheduled to North America since the end of October last year. They fly them to LHR, BKK and PEK. Yes, the EI registrered 763s were returned to GECAS and now flies for TWA. The777Man
Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, LX and LH 777s