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Need Historical Information On National Airlines  
User currently offlineJeckPDX From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 255 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

What were that dates that national airlines operated from-to? I remember flying them as a young boy. Also, IIRC there was a second iteration of national airlines serving las vegas in the late 90s. What became of this national as well? On a side topic how many iterations of braniff an pan am were there after the original closed its doors. Sorry if the questions have been asked repeatedly in the past but I am curious. Thanks much

JeckPDX


"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrettFromCLT From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

Hey JeckPDX,

The first National was around from 1934 until 1980 when Pan Am bought them. The partially casino funded version was started in 1999 and went bust in 2002.

Cool,

Brett


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

Quoting from "Classic American Airlines" by Geza Szurovy:

Quote:
:On October 15, 1934, National Airlines System's two Ryan monoplanes officially started daily service from St. Pete(rsburg) to Daytona Beach via Tampa, Lakeland, and Orlando, to feed Eastern's north-south air mail route running along the east coast.

If memory serves, the name "National Airlines" disappeared officially on January 1, 1980, when the airline was officially folded into Pan Am.


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The earliest picture in the a.net database is from July 18, 1999. I would imagine that the reincarnation started flying fairly close to that date.

From the latter picture:

Quote:
Most of the National Airlines 18 B757 strong fleet is stored in MHV, since the Las Vegas based company ceased operations on nov 6, 2002.

There have been two incarnations of Braniff - the original, which flew from June 20, 1928, flying OKC to TUL, to 1982, and Braniff II which was 1984 or 1985 to the late 1980's.

Pan Am has actually seen three - the original from 1929 (KYW-HAV) to November, 1989, Pan Am II which was a re-branding of Carnival Airlines. The new version quickly folded, and the third is the 727 operator of today.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSpinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

There was also a third Incarnation of Braniff. Braniff III flew in the early 90's. It revived the Ultra color scheme on mostly 727's and a DC-9 to and from Florida and the Northeast. It went bust shortly before Hurricane Andrew and some of their 727s were damaged on the Tarmac at Miami as no one was able or willing to fly them out.

User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

Quoting BrettFromCLT (Reply 1):
The partially casino funded version was started in 1999 and went bust in 2002.

Too bad that they aren't around anymore, a friend and me flew on them in July 2000 (LAX-LAS-LAX), they had very cheap fares, friendly F/As, and great service!

Anyone knows why they went bust?

Patrick


User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5200 times:
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These sites have info on the first "National". As for the 2nd, I flew them PHL to Las Vegas in 2000 I believe. John.

http://www.nationalsundowners.com/home.php

http://www.geocities.com/nationalairlines1/



JLB54061
User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 819 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

i never flew the late 90's version of National but at jetblue we have quite a bunch of ex-national F/A's. i gotta say, i think i would've loved to fly them because i've worked w/ most of them and they are one of the best bunch i know! i'm sure the flights to/from LAS were more enjoyable having them work those flights at national.

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
If memory serves, the name "National Airlines" disappeared officially on January 1, 1980, when the airline was officially folded into Pan Am.

Depends what you mean by "officially" ... the mid-1980 PA timetables still listed NA flights as NA flights, didn't they?


User currently offlineJeremy From United States of America, joined May 2001, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5149 times:

The LAS based National was actually the 3rd National.

There was a carrier in the early 90s called Private Jet that operated MD-80 aircraft, which changed their name to National.



You are now free to be sexually harassed and then terminated for filing a complaint--Southwest Airlines to me.
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 4):
Anyone knows why they went bust?

They apparently weren't very profitable from Day One, having started in May of 1999 and filing Chapter 11 in December of 2000. The initial bankruptcy was attributed, at least in part, to a jet fuel price run-up in the summer of 2000, and then they never recovered from the impact of 9/11, slowly running out of cash until shutdown on Nov 6, 2002.

Here's a Las Vegas Review-Journal story from 11/7/02 on the shutdown.

Last summer I saw a National II sign still in place on the lower-level road at O'Hare while walking from the Airport Hilton to the terminal. I took a pic, but would up parting company with my camera later that month and losing it...


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

Thanks a lot fot the info, ExFATboy! Interesting!

By the way, two or three weeks ago I visited a friend, by some coincidence we went through his "boarding-pass, inflight-magazine, and safety card archive", we found his N7 LAX-LAS boarding pass, issued on an ATB like ticket stub but it was blue (not the regular greenish ATB ticket colors). Too bad that we didn't find the return boarding pass (and too bad that I don't have mine anymore), but I think we got a proper boardng pass with a National logo on top. Ah... the memories.  Wink

Patrick


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

The LAS based National was not the third, but FOURTH National Airlines.

There was some short lived Johnny-come-lately National flying a couple of 747's in the mid 1980's:


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And here are a couple of pix of the LAS National "hubbing".

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/National_Hub.JPG
http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/LASTerm.JPG


User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

There are also a bunch of people from N7 at Allegiant.

User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

You can still see the National Airlines logo on the former HQ at LAS airport


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 819 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Quoting G4resagent (Reply 12):
There are also a bunch of people from N7 at Allegiant.

same goes for Omni.

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 13):
You can still see the National Airlines logo on the former HQ at LAS airport

yup...i look for it all the time as we taxi past it for rwy 25R. pretty much faded away. such a sad site.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 11):

i remember hearing from a couple ex-National FA's that work at jetblue how weird and sad it was to be walking thru that same terminal when we moved over to the D gates.

on a side note...the 2nd national airlines picture in reply #11 there's now a Starbucks where those seats are.

~B6FA4ever

[Edited 2006-11-20 02:52:22]

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 4):

Anyone knows why they went bust?

Two reasons.

National was started to provide cheap, casino subsidized fares into LAS. All flights (I think) ran into LAS. Also, you could book a stop over in LAS when traveling somewhere else. For example, you could fly PHL-LAS, stay in LAS for two days and then fly LAS-LAX and not pay any more for it. The entire concept was to get people into LAS, so they would spend money at the LAS casinos.

But, lower fares from other airlines became more easily available, which meant the casinos were almost wasting their money.

And, of course, 9/11. Leisure travel came to a halt after 9/11 and that was the vast majority of their business. They were so desperate towards the end that they had $1 fares on 09/11/02.

AAndrew


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5125 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

Harrahs also refused to supply N7 with additional funding during the bankruptcy. National was dependent on the cash infusion, and started looking to other casinos to help. Unfortunatley, the casinos saw minimal benefits and minimal returns for the operation.

National was close to getting additional cash, but 9/11/01 really put the nail in the coffin. Carl Icahn was rumored to have been lurking around Nationals headquarters, but he backed out. It is really too bad that National did not survive, as the service was good, and the airline in whole was a great bunch. I did have the opportunity to fly National on 9/11/02, when fares were $1 each way. I got a roundtrip fare from SEA to LAS for about $20.00. The plane was packed of course, and the service was great.

I do miss National II.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineJeckPDX From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Thanks for all the great replies. I did not realize national II was casino subsidized. I was always under the impression funding came from the city of LAS itself to promote leisure travel, although I guess casino subsidies would make sense. Does anyomne have any interior pics or timetables they can post from National?

Also, what is this 727 flying PAn AM 3 that was mentioned above. I would love to travel on a 727 again.

JeckPDX



"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2399 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
Pan Am has actually seen three - the original from 1929 (KYW-HAV) to November, 1989

The original Pan Am, like Eastern, did not cease operations until 1991.



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

I think no 2 of their aircraft had the same interior setup. I was on 4 and each had a different configuration. Some had video monitors, some no air vents, etc.

User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4678 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
If memory serves, the name "National Airlines" disappeared officially on January 1, 1980, when the airline was officially folded into Pan Am.

That was January 7th, 1980.

Quoting Timz (Reply 7):
Depends what you mean by "officially" ... the mid-1980 PA timetables still listed NA flights as NA flights, didn't they?

That's probable, because I rememebr seeing a PA timetable following the merger sporting half a Pan Am globe and half National Sunking logo to let the customers know about the merger.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 18):
The original Pan Am, like Eastern, did not cease operations until 1991.

December 4th and January 18th, respectively.


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

PanAm purchased National to create a domestic route system to feed their international operations.

[Edited 2006-11-20 12:54:54]

User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4645 times:

Does this airline count as half an incarnation, btw?


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While it didn't carry the National name, it used the logo. What's the story here?



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 22):
Does this airline count as half an incarnation, btw?

No! Southeast was a kinda charter/low cost airline that went bust at the end of 2004. Airways had a report about that airline two or three years ago.

Before Southeast, at the begining of the 1990s (1992/1993), Key Air International used a modified Sun King logo. Then one of its aircraft (at least) went to Trans Alsace where it kept for a while the color scheme and logo of Key.


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Cheers.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

The original NA was a great airline from a passengers standpoint. I can remember some really fun flights on NA.

They had some great "milk runs" between MIA and the NYC area airports. Over the years quite a few fun flights were to be had on DC-7/B's, L-188's and (pure-jet) DC-8's
(30's purchased from NW).

One outstanding example, back in the mid-sixties was an L-188 (Flt.211) from EWR stopping along the way at PHL,ORF,CHS,SAV,JAX, and on into MIA.

A great northbound L-188 (Flt.296) MIA to JFK stopping at PBI,MCO,DAB,JAX,SAV,CHS,ORF,DCA. a great way to while away a whole afternoon and evening!

A kool DC-8 flight was #47 from MIA to LAX stopping at JAX,MSY, and HOU with gourmet breakfast, snack and luncheon along the way!

The hop-scotch L-188 flights within Florida were a real treat especially in the middle of the summer. A mid-afternoon flight assured plenty of thunderstorm action for your IFE! The wildest flight I EVER experienced was on an NA B-721 between MCO and MIA one hot summers afternoon.

The folks that worked for NA were the best. I always had a great flight with wonderful service (at least when the weather permitted the F/A's to get around the cabin!).
Like so many others, I really miss NA.
Those were the days!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
25 Magyarorszag : I've never had the pleasure to fly with 'em, but NA seemed a to be a cool airline. After all, National was the "Airline of the Stars", the first US a
26 N702ML : Unfortunately, I am too young to have ever flown on the original National Airlines. That, and I grew up in a part of the country the original NA didn'
27 RobertS975 : The first flight I ever took was a National DC8 Idlewild (no JFK yet) to Miami in 1962 at the age of 10. Many years and many miles ago! National evetu
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