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Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation  
User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 64
Posted (7 years 5 months 14 hours ago) and read 7345 times:

This thread is to speculate how the merged airline's fleet might take shape in the future.


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Due to the fact that there are 35 active threads on this topic, all previous ones are being locked and will be repaced with 'official' ones to help keep things consolidated and organized.


The following threads are being locked.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101120/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3101594/
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http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102040/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3102235/
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http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3103401/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3103695/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3104869/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3105230/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099151/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099206/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099232/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099274/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099317/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099484/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099503/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099505/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3099757/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100017/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100179/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100287/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100493/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100550/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3100859/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3097793/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3097961/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098201/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098328/
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3098984/


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54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

Anyone else think the DL proposal might, in part, be US sending a message to Airbus?

User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 7099 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
Anyone else think the DL proposal might, in part, be US sending a message to Airbus?

I do... I wouldn't be surprised if Parker is trying to get out of the A350 commitment.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 6971 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2):
I wouldn't be surprised if Parker is trying to get out of the A350 commitment.

US isn't committed to the 350. If Parker wants out, it's just a phone call away, iirc.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 6971 times:

You guys are so funny! You love to speculate about aircrafts that are ten years away from first service and 20 years away from having a severe impact on revenues.

These guys have problems now. They have A330s,777,767,757, A320s, B737 classic and NG, MD80, MD90, Emb 190 and more smaller stuff around them now, they are an active museum of last 20 years of aircraft history. They have enough to sort out now - so we can speculate without danger anybody will proven false as long as anybody else remembers...

Anybody has the actual combined fleet numbers?


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13254 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months ago) and read 6724 times:
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Not that it helps the fleet picture much, but I thought DL removed their few MD90s from the fleet?


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6690 times:
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Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
US isn't committed to the 350. If Parker wants out, it's just a phone call away, iirc.

Correct. In the meantime, he gets the best of both worlds.

Presumably, he gets the A350 somewhere near the price originally negotiated and he gets the launch customer discount.

If he doesn't like the aircraft on launch, if it is too much plane or whatever, he can cancel. If it suits what he wants to do he gets the new aircraft at a darn good price.

If he complains that the plane is too late for him, he'd probably get a good deal on some A330's in the interim.

He's in the catbird seat.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
in part, be US sending a message to Airbus?

In view of the above, what message would he want to send?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3131 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6645 times:

The M90's are still flying for DL.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6454 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2):
I do... I wouldn't be surprised if Parker is trying to get out of the A350 commitment.



Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
US isn't committed to the 350. If Parker wants out, it's just a phone call away, iirc.

And someone above already said they have long-haul 767s, 777s, and aren't they taking order of the 787? To Parker, an easy way of getting very long-haul aircraft to open Asian routes, and PHX-Europe routes...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13254 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6431 times:
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Quoting FutureFO (Reply 7):
The M90's are still flying for DL.

Really? I thought they'd elected to retire that fleet type, since there were so few of them and therefore they were more of a burden to the bottom line.

I could have sworn they were gone. Weird.

Well, I'd guess that would be the first sub-fleet gone if said merger occurs. Thoughts?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3131 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

Out of SLC-LAX and CVG-SLC as well as a few other places.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6318 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
Not that it helps the fleet picture much, but I thought DL removed their few MD90s from the fleet?

All 15 of them make their way through SLC and to a smaller extent CVG on a daily basis...

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Well, I'd guess that would be the first sub-fleet gone if said merger occurs. Thoughts?

In my twisted mind, here is what the new airline MIGHT look like

777-200ER/LR, A330-200/-300, 767-200/-300/-400, 757-200 (the DL fleet is larger, so perhaps the US fleet will be reengined?), A319/A320/A321, and the Express....



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6272 times:

Express fleet... It looks like DL doesn't operate any prop planes? just the CR2/7s? The CRJ200s will disappear I am sure... so what about this:

E75/70s for RP (US express)
CR7 (US and DL express)
CR9 (US)

Q1, 2, and 3 (US)
Saab340 (US)
maybe a dozen Beeches as well that are too small for Q1 service like LNS-PIT and others

The 50-seat jets have already been argued to have been uneconomical, so no ERJ145s and especially no CRJ-200s!

Thoughts?

looking up both USAir and DL on their respective websites for fleet info...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

ASA operates ATR 72's and Freedom operates DH8's for DL


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6214 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12):
It looks like DL doesn't operate any prop planes?

SkyWest also flies Embraer-120s from SLC to several cities in UT and ID.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6198 times:

If US/DL merges, heres my guess:

Short Haul:
738/9ER
E190
A319/320/321
752ETOPS
763

Long Haul:
752ETOPS
762ER/763ER/764ER/777LR/ER
A333/332

Types leaving:
MD88/ MD90/ 733/ 734

That leaves alot of planes to be replaced and my guess is that a bunch of B738/739ER would be ordered and also airbuses too.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

A bunch of A320s yes. Doubtful they would add to the 737 fleet, there's just no reason.

The 738s will happily join the fleet of 733s and 734s, and they will need the capacity well into the future.

NS


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
SkyWest also flies Embraer-120s from SLC to several cities in UT and ID.

Thanks. I thought that there would be some way of looking up TOTAL fleet information on DL's website. Apparently there is not, unlike on US' website. Then again, airline webpages vary from airline/website to airline/website. I guess it depends on who develops them for the airlines as well...

I was just trying to do my homework if you will and see if I could come up with anything regarding express/regional fleet and think of what a combined service would look like. I know that Comair is nothing more than a financial burden to DL basically, well, according to other a.netters anyway, 50-seat CRJs are not very economical either, I don't know about Beeches, are they too small? But what does that leave really small airports like LNS? I don't think a route like LNS-PIT would be very profitable if operated with a DH8 as opposed to Beech1900s, or would it mean the end to LNS-PIT service (providing that the beeches are cut?)

I will think of other questions later...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 17):
But what does that leave really small airports like LNS? I don't think a route like LNS-PIT would be very profitable if operated with a DH8 as opposed to Beech1900s, or would it mean the end to LNS-PIT service (providing that the beeches are cut?)

I think DL with the new management would keep the EAS service. It could just be transferred to Colgan Air. This might take more work than we realize, but there has to be some rationalization of US Airways Express operators. They simply have too many. I think six or seven carriers is enough. No airline needs ten commuter/regional operators to do their local service.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16):
A bunch of A320s yes. Doubtful they would add to the 737 fleet, there's just no reason.

Sure there is. Doug doesn't want to get stuck as a single-source airline. Buy a few new Boeings and you put pressure on Airbus to please their largest customer.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6089 times:

SW is already eyeing the assets, especially the 737-800's.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...08_N20324287&type=comktNews&rpc=44

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16):
The 738s will happily join the fleet of 733s and 734s, and they will need the capacity well into the future.

November 20th WSJ, Parker mentioned in the fleet consolidation the older aircraft would leave, that would the 77 - 737 Classics, easy buyer for the 75 - DL 737-800. He also said, ATL would be better served with larger aircraft and fewer flight allocating the RJ's to CLT. I also think this is where SW is interested in ATL gates which Parker said they would scale back flights.

This is interesting US has 57 EMB-190 on order.

DL has 121 757 with 25 ETOPS to arrive. US has 34 757 w/ RR engines. Now, FedEx announced a fleet replacement Sept. 25th for nearly 90 B-757 spending $2.6 Billion. There are not 90 757's on the market today. I wonder if this was not a deal worked out with GECAS and USAirways. GECAS is holding a large amount of DL debt.

We will see.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 18):
They simply have too many. I think six or seven carriers is enough. No airline needs ten commuter/regional operators to do their local service.

What do you think of Comair, would they be dumped? I hope they keep RP and their E70s... Who else is worthy of staying with this new airline, should the merger go through?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13254 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6031 times:
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Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 20):
I also think this is where SW is interested in ATL gates which Parker said they would scale back flights.

When did Parker say that? I think there would have been an even bigger media shitstorm from the ATL crowd if THAT ever were uttered.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 21):
What do you think of Comair, would they be dumped? I hope they keep RP and their E70s... Who else is worthy of staying with this new airline, should the merger go through?

I'd probably venture to guess Mesa and Skywest/ASA?

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
I think there would have been an even bigger media shitstorm from the ATL crowd if THAT ever were uttered.

LOL, It would make the Eastern union fights of yore seem like Christmas at an orphanage...



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5934 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
When did Parker say that? I think there would have been an even bigger media shitstorm from the ATL crowd if THAT ever were uttered.

It's more than uttered, he's repeated everytime he's asked about the network with 2 hubs in close proximity. HE says, "they'll likely fly larger aircraft from ATL while moving smaller planes (RJ's) to nearby CLT. - in 11/20's WSJ page B3. Last week on CNBC, Parker said there were overlapping assets that would better serve the company being leveraged. When asked about ATL he mentioned realigning the network reducing the ATL delays.

ATL has 80 millions O&D compared CLT 28 million O&D; however CLT is the nations #2 banking center behind NYC. ATL has already started $hitting bricks, they've lost the corporate HQ of Ga Pacific and BellSouth. Possibly losing SunTrust should the 5th 3rd or ABN Amro (both are banks) deal go through. Though these companies retain a large presence within ATL, cities pride themselves on the number of Fortune 500 HQ. Losing 2 within weeks apart and possibly a 3rd & 4th within the year, "Shirley Girl" is stressing.

The bright side is this should force the city to get their $hit together & stopping sucking on the DL "inkind tit".


25 767-332ER : Please tell us where you are getting those O&D numbers, when ATL alone last year did 85.9 mil pax total.
26 USAF336TFS : Okay, I'll buy that, but considering the relationship US has with Boeing, virtually none in the last decade, will they continue to honor Delta's long
27 AvConsultant : Yesterday AJC online, it was total pax not O&D. Thanks for catching. I remember the delta being 40 million.
28 Steeler83 : Are you saying that they're worthy commuter airlines, or should they be dumped?
29 Post contains links BlazingCessna : I was about to say, why in the hell would DL do that??? They wanted a buttload more of the planes but the MD/Boeing "Merger" killed that idea. I can
30 Dacman : WOW!!! There sure will be alot of surplus aircraft flooding the market over the next few years if this meger (hostile) takeover occurs.....stay tuned.
31 FLALEFTY : There will much political pressure from the southern and eastern states' Congressional delegations on the Bush Administration NOT to allow this merger
32 737DAB320 : The combined numbers are as follows according to the FAA website: B737-200: 6 B737-300: 58 B737-400: 40 B737-800: 71 B757-200: 167 B767-200: 14 B767-
33 PanAm330 : A subfleet of 39 RR-engined 757s from the current US would not be reengined, especially when some are well over a decade (or two, in the case of the
34 USPIT10L : Frankly I think OH is finished. It's the major thing bogging down DL's restructuring. If DL emerges as a standalone, OH will become a codeshare partn
35 Jad0761 : I think that everyone is making an A v B battle start and not looking at the reality of the merger. If this merger were to happen, I think there would
36 USPIT10L : I think CLT could be an excellent reliever for ATL, especially for weather delays. The only problem with bad weather days is if they happen spontaneo
37 FCYTravis : Actually, how about yes? Doug Parker has stated in no uncertain terms that a disproportionate amount of the capacity reduction will come from the 50-
38 Mariner : I don't understand what Delta is trying to achieve with Comair. They paid a lot of money to acquire the airline - $1.8 billion? - and presumably they
39 FutureFO : OH is in the BK filing as well. That is why DL would be more than happy to get rid of them. They are one of the costliest operations out there. If any
40 Jacobin777 : Though Boeing is an unsecured creditor with DL, they are one of the majour players on DL's creditor board...thus for this takeover to go through, it w
41 Gigneil : The unsecured creditors are the ones that will decide everything... NS
42 BoeingFever777 : How bout this... They are NOT merging and US is going to have to cancel A350 order due to 2015 EIS and they need a/c for expansion NOW! DL will emerg
43 Surfdog75 : quote=Dacman,reply=30]WOW!!! There sure will be alot of surplus aircraft flooding the market over the next few years if this meger (hostile) takeover
44 Jacobin777 : They come after the secured creditor..its the shareholders who get screwed... The secured creditors and judge's decision comes first....
45 Post contains links Mariner : Well, sure. As a wholly owned subsidairy of Delta (and reliant on Delta for all its income), there wasn't a lot of choice. But that doesn't explain:
46 FCYTravis : I can't see anyone wanting to buy Comair. Lots of labor troubles, entirely dependent on a single legacy carrier for all its business and huge investme
47 Mariner : Could not the same have been said of Atlantic Southeast (minus the labor troubles, perhaps)? Given the costs are, hopefully, being fixed, Comair does
48 Coa747 : Since we are talking merger I thought it would be constructive to look at the respective long haul fleets. US Airways- A330-200 0 (10 on order) A330-3
49 Jacobin777 : Also, A330's are hot items...defintely more than 767's......it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for UA to unload them....(all hypothetical of course
50 CRJ900 : Are all those 50-seaters owned by the airlines or are they leased from the manufacturers or leasing companies? Will it be overall cheaper to just par
51 Surfdog75 : Why would Boeing sacrifice a 100% Boeing customer for one that would definitely have to keep an Airbus narrowbody fleet. DL is not too far away from r
52 N328KF : US Airways (nee America West) has a decent relationship with Boeing. It's the old US Airways that wasn't on the best terms. Furthermore, it was a pri
53 Gigneil : In this particular case, the unsecured creditors are the ones that are holding the ball. NS
54 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Yah..that's what I found out after reading more information regarding the "takeover" this weekend....should have corrected myself... Good call..
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