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WSJ: Airbus To Boost A320 Series Production  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4144 posts, RR: 90
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9736 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

The WSJ is reporting that Airbus are planning to boost A320 series production from a current rate of 30 per month to 36 per month by December 2008. To meet demand and bolster sales.

Subcriber only http://online.wsj.com/public/us

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9725 times:

"Airbus, in a Risky Bet, To Raise Production of A320" (selected excerpts from WSJ article cited in the threadstarter):

...The expected boost in cash flow could help Airbus pay bills of about $15 billion to fix manufacturing problems with its A380 superjumbo and to design from scratch another proposed jet, the A350 XWB.

Churning out more A320 jets also could help Airbus, a division of Franco-German European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., grab market share in the short-haul segment of the market, which accounts for the majority of jetliner sales by number and where it competes with U.S. rival Boeing Co. Securing more customers for existing A320 single-aisle planes could help Airbus against Boeing five to 10 years from now, when both plane makers develop a new generation of short-haul planes.

Yet history shows that accelerating assembly lines carries risks. A decade ago, Boeing tried to increase production of its single-aisle 737 models too quickly. Its suppliers weren't able to meet demand, and Boeing was forced to disappoint customers and to declare losses amid a booming market.

Tom Williams, Airbus executive vice president for programs, who is handling the ramp-up, said bottlenecks at suppliers are a greater risk than Airbus's own ability to assemble the planes...

..."The risk of increasing output is breaking the supply chain," acknowledged Henri Courpron, Airbus executive vice president for procurement, in an interview. "In that case, you don't just lose the incremental increase, you get none" of the planes in production.

Still, the A320 ramp-up shows Airbus is willing to take risks to keep up the pressure on its U.S. rival...

...Airbus has a backlog of more than 1,800 orders for A320-family planes, and managers feel confident they can deliver those planes faster without creating a glut when the cyclical market next declines, the officials added. For this same reason, the company is spacing out its production increases and is focusing on customers that already have ordered the planes.

"We're not aggressively putting supply on the market that we then need to go sell," said Mr. Courpron.

Airbus managers also are examining boosting production of the company's A330 wide body, which is booked solid through 2008, but an assessment of that move is more preliminary, they added.

Because airlines order planes years ahead but then sometimes cancel them, Airbus overbooks production slots -- much like airlines overbook flights to offset passenger cancellations. Airbus planners then allocate specific production slots to individual customers several months before assembly work begins.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116398318123627934.html


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9666 times:

This is really non-news; I think it was expected.

With that said, with Airbus doubling down on the A320, Boeing should wait until Airbus commits financial dollars, push the engine makers for increased performance/efficiency, and then reveal Y1 in order to pull the rug out from under Airbus.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9614 times:

@N328KF

That is nothing more than a dream of you.

Boeing has to start Y1 before Airbus starts their A320-replacement as we all know.
The number of sales in the last years speak a clear language.

Johnny


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9608 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 3):
That is nothing more than a dream of you.

Boeing has to start Y1 before Airbus starts their A320-replacement as we all know.
The number of sales in the last years speak a clear language.

I suggest a strategy and you extrapolate from it what you think I "want?" I think you need to detach emotion from your ability to participate in threads.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12495 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9551 times:
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Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
with Airbus doubling down on the A320

 confused 

We're talking about an increase in production rate from 30 to 36 per month, phased in over a year. That's one extra plane introduced per month every two months.

How exactly is that "doubling" and why is it "down"?

Given Boeing's large 737 backlog, launching Y1 too quickly could be counter productive for them as well. The NB market is so big that unless one of the manufacturers produces a real dog, you're unlikely to see anything other than a split in the 45-55% range.

Being second to market in such a big segment is unlikely to be significant - there's little chance of any "rug pulling" in this market segment.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9536 times:
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Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
Yet history shows that accelerating assembly lines carries risks

Both manufacturers are progressively ramping up production across a number of product lines. It certainly has to be done carefully.

A steady increase from 30 to 36 per month over 2 years shouldn't entail massive risk, though, and Airbus have already shown themselves very capable of managing a controlled ramp-up on the A320 lines.

I'd consider it far less risky than the ambtious plans for the 787 being discussed at the moment, before mainstream production has even begun, using a new and largely untried production paradigm.
I'd like to think Boeing will manage them carefully, too.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
and then reveal Y1 in order to pull the rug out from under Airbus.

I don't think Airbus are at particular risk from this immediately. Even at this accelerated rate, the 1 875 frame (and growing) backlog will last until about mid-2011.
I don't see many, if any, of those deliveries being at risk from a Y1 which is most unlikely to be available in numbers anytime before 2013, at best.

I suspect an unforseen downturn might be the greatest risk, as was, IIRC, the case with Boeing and the 737 as well.

Regards


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9527 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus are planning to boost A320 series production from a current rate of 30 per month to 36 per month by December 2008.

How does China fit into that scheme?
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9505 times:
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Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.

4 out of 36 per month? That's little more than 10% of overall production.

Airbus are already producing a LOT of A320's  

Edit - Incidentally, with 300 outstanding orders for A320's from China, that Chinese FAL will be contentedly turning out A320's just for it's domestic market for the next 6 years.............  Smile

Regards

[Edited 2006-11-20 09:41:10]

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12495 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9455 times:
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Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
30 to 36 per month, phased in over a year



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 6):
A steady increase from 30 to 36 per month over 2 years

Oops, I can't count. blush 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9437 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
The WSJ is reporting that Airbus are planning to boost A320 series production from a current rate of 30 per month to 36 per month by December 2008. To meet demand and bolster sales.

Well interesting report PanAm_DC10, thank you for sharing it with us. Well this latest information actually comes to prove my belief that an increase in A32X and possibly A330 production was imminent.

Does any one know if these figures are including the Chinese assembly line?

If it doesn't it would mean that Airbus could possible be producing 40 A32X per month from 2009 onwards.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4144 posts, RR: 90
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9439 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
How does China fit into that scheme?

The Chinese production is not scheduled to start until 2009;

Aircraft assembly in China is planned to begin in early 2009, with the aim of ramping up production to reach four aircraft per month by 2011.

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...0_26_agreement_A320_FAL_China.html

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
If and when their assembly line starts, that will be a lot of A320s.

Indeed, but todays report is over and above any production from the Chinese line, in addition, Airbus have verbally confirmed the WSJ report;

By Andrea Rothman
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's biggest planemaker, will boost production of the A320 family of single-aisle jets to 36 monthly by December 2008 from 30 to meet demand.

The move would help it more quickly meet customer orders, said Barbara Kracht, a spokeswoman, today in a telephone interview.


[END - Fair use excerpt: http://www.bloomberg.com ]

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
This is really non-news; I think it was expected.

What was expected was an increase to 34 frames per month, so I believe the subject warranted posting, the more so given reference to the A330. If you believe it to be non-news, I ask with respect, use the suggest delete button.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9347 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
the more so given reference to the A330

Indeed, PanAm_DC10.  checkmark 
(And thanks for the link).

An increase in A330 production would appear much more questionable, in my view.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
Airbus managers also are examining boosting production of the company's A330 wide body, which is booked solid through 2008, but an assessment of that move is more preliminary, they added.

 checkmark 
(And thanks for the quotes, Leelaw, for us non-subscribers.  Smile )

Regards


User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9313 times:

@N328KF

The problem with your strategy is, that the airplane with the lower number of sales should be produced longer than the other one.

That is highly doubtful, because i do not see a reason why Airbus should make the first step with a backlog of more than 1800 airplanes.

That would be the same as Boeing would start a B777-Successor before Airbus starts an A340-Replacement.


Johnny


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 12):
An increase in A330 production would appear much more questionable, in my view.

I guess if they launch the frieghter this would need some extra places - and it's still selling reasonably strongly - and they might get part of the USAF tanker contract.


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9287 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
If you believe it to be non-news, I ask with respect, use the suggest delete button.

Quite on the contrary PanAm_DC10, you deserve respect for your continued search for non-speculative highly interesting news which helps shine a clearer light on what is about to happen at both Airbus and Boeing.

I don't know how close you are following in on Boeing, but I can confirm that on many occasions you are pretty close in on the news from Airbus.

Obviously, your posts give some irritation because they go against the flow, but don't let that bother you, sir! You definitely show people the grand picture, something not many on this site can say when they focus on minor issues like which individual model outsells which competing product from the competition and then draw the popular conclusion A is in deep troubles...

You are correct Airbus is about to raise the production target to increase total production of the A32F at the assembly lines in Toulouse and Hamburg from the first said new target of 34 to a new target of 36 over a 24 months period. Next month Airbus will talk to all its suppliers to see if the additional 2 planes per month on top the 4 extra per month which were already planned will not pose any problems to them (most likely not), after which a formal go-ahead is expected by year's end or January next year at the very latest.

Airbus is indeed also seriously considering the output of its only other assembly line, i.e. the common A330/A340 assembly line, due to the continued high demand for some of the models coming from this single production line. Notably the fact the launch of the A330F had to be postponed at the very last minute at Farnborough to make room for SQ's pax A330s and the fact that in the mean time some more silent commitments to the A330F have come in (sorry can't say more) makes us confident the output needs to be increased to make it possible to launch the A330F first half next year and start deliveries in 2008 in parallel to a continued production of pax models on the line, rather than in replacement of them.

As for the Chinese assembly line, the aim is indeed to have it up and running in 2009, first at very low rates of course, but as from 2010 it should be assembling 2 additional A32F planes a month and in 2011 even 4 a month, increasing monthly global production of the A32F to a whopping 40 per month!

All this would lead Airbus to a annual output of roughly 575 narrow and wide body planes early next decade, EXCLUDING any (left A340s) and 45 A380s.

A manufacturer which is considering pumping out 620+ planes a year is not really a manufacturer which is fighting for survival like some would want to see... In fact it is a manufacturer which will be very difficult to overtake in production numbers for its main competitor for many years to come.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9225 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
Notably the fact the launch of the A330F had to be postponed at the very last minute at Farnborough to make room for SQ's pax A330s and the fact that in the mean time some more silent commitments to the A330F have come in (sorry can't say more) makes us confident the output needs to be increased to make it possible to launch the A330F first half next year and start deliveries in 2008 in parallel to a continued production of pax models on the line, rather than in replacement of them.

In an interview last week, Mr. Leahy told the Seattle Times:

"I would think you will see the industrial launch of an A330-200 freighter in the next few months.

"I have a few delivery positions that I'm marketing at the end of 2009 and 2010. But with everything else we've had on our plate, [the A330 freighter] hasn't been at the top of the list.

"You tend to go out to see Qantas or Emirates or Singapore first, to explain what's happening with the A380, before you go running around asking if you'd be interested in an A330 freighter for delivery in 2010."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...hnology/2003431623_leahyweb15.html

Apparently, Sabenapilot doesn't stand around the same water cooler at Airbus as Mr. Leahy.  Smile


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9207 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):

Quite on the contrary PanAm_DC10, you deserve respect for your continued search for non-speculative highly interesting news which helps shine a clearer light on what is about to happen at both Airbus and Boeing.

Very well said Sabenapilot. It is for these very same qualities that make PanAm_DC10 one of the most respected members on Airliners.net. Keep on doing your thing PanAm_DC10.  Smile

Excellent post SabenaPilot. Very informative.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9190 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 16):
"I have a few delivery positions that I'm marketing at the end of 2009 and 2010. But with everything else we've had on our plate, [the A330 freighter] hasn't been at the top of the list.

Hence the idea to increase production, Leelaw....

Which is -contrary to the A32F increase- not yet decided in principle, but even without an increase in annual production from the A330/A340 line, we will be well over 600 planes by early next decade....

Any links as to the expected total production from Boeing at around the same time, Leelaw?

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 16):
Sabenapilot doesn't stand around the same water cooler at Airbus as Mr. Leahy.

You seems to be obsessed with water coolers as of lately.

Better get your blood sugar level checked.


User currently offlineAutoThrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9147 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 13):
That is highly doubtful, because i do not see a reason why Airbus should make the first step with a backlog of more than 1800 airplanes.

You are 100% right, its quite obvious Boeing will be forced to launch Y1 before Airbus with A320NG. However it will be interesting to watch if the A320NG can leapfrog the Y1. I assume the production costs will be lower for the Y1 then for the A320NG.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9116 times:

Interesting to note that as of the July 2007 closure of the A300 line, Airbus will have a spare production line available with the same fuselage cross section as the A330 - could that be a factor in their plans? How easily could this be converted to A330 production?

User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9111 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
A manufacturer which is considering pumping out 620+ planes a year.

That's an awful lot of planes! Who would have thought to see such production numbers a few years ago... In fact, until less than 2 years ago, annual sales weren't even that high (at least not at Airbus, don't really know for Boeing)!

I suppose that this kind of production increase will generate an enormous cash flow which will allow Airbus to launch the A350XWB without to much financing problems?

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 19):
its quite obvious Boeing will be forced to launch Y1 before Airbus with A320NG. However it will be interesting to watch if the A320NG can leapfrog the Y1. I assume the production costs will be lower for the Y1 then for the A320NG.

Isn't the A320NG just an intermediate update to make the current A320 even more competitive than it is today? This A320NG (or A320E) might be a good idea really, because once Airbus gets rid of the production limitations which it suffers from now and have hindered it from winning even more tenders, it might help them fill the additional production slots even more easy.


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9104 times:

Sabenapilot, if Airbus had enough A330F orders to launch at Farnborough they would have. I absolutely don't buy your SQ story. They could have announced 330/340 line production increases(well 330 anyway) to satisfy the demand.
Whilst I think the 330F will be launched and will sell, I don't think it has sold at the expected rate, hence the delay in launch.
How else can Airbus compete with Boeing in the near/mid term, other than increasing 32X/330 production rates? The 340 is dead(even PR won't go near the 346), the 380 is struggling at present and with all orders in the cancellation zone, I would expect more cancellations. Additionally, FI is today reporting that the 350XWB may only be powered by RR, as GE are yet to come to terms on the -800/-900 models, and have never been likely to power the -1000. XWB EIS will be 2013 at the earliest and more likely 2014 IMO, with the -1000 not available until 2015/16. I expect more than one carrier with firm 350 orders to also cancel.
Airbus need more 320 sales to pay for the 380/XWB/330F projects. That's what the production rate increase is all about IMO. A carbon fibre panel XWB, still won't go near matching the 787 CFRP barrel fuselage sections, no matter how hard John Leahy tries to rationalise it. Airbus clearly can't(efficiently and/or technically) match Boeing in CFRP fuselage barrel construction.
I would like to see Airbus push the technology envelope with the XWB. I fear they won't and/or can't)


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 15):
A manufacturer which is considering pumping out 620+ planes a year is not really a manufacturer which is fighting for survival like some would want to see...

Arguably it IS about survival - generating the cash flow necessary to stay afloat........

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
...The expected boost in cash flow could help Airbus pay bills of about $15 billion to fix manufacturing problems with its A380 superjumbo and to design from scratch another proposed jet, the A350 XWB.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9076 times:
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Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):
Airbus need more 320 sales to pay for the 380/XWB/330F projects.

Airbus need more A320 deliveries to cope with a backlog which I understand to be unprecedented in magnitude for this type of airliner (over 1900 frames including orders announced this month).

Your comment seems to infer that Airbus are increasing A320 production only in order to pay for ongoing projects.
It's not a view that I can subscribe to, unfortunately.

One thing I'll say about N328KF's comments regarding Y1.
The inevitable advent of Y1 makes it even more sensible for Airbus to make hay with the A320, and maximise the sales they can take in the period prior to Y1 starting to exert an influence

Regards


25 Post contains images Leelaw : Congratulations. Hopefully, you won't be negatively impacted by the Power8 cost-cutting drive and will still be at Airbus to enjoy the success. Nope,
26 Johnny : @Wingtips "Airbus need more 320 sales to pay for the 380/XWB/330F projects" More "sales" than 1900...? i think you mean more deliveries, but i doubt t
27 Scouseflyer : I might be wrong but I belive that the A300 hanger is not much cop for the A330/340 as the planes have to be squeezed in and basically hand assembled
28 OyKIE : Thank you PanAm_DC-10 for keeping us up to date. IIRC Streif would like to move final assembly on the A320 to Germany as part of the restructuring of
29 Slz396 : It is a fact the official launch of the A330 was announced for Farnborough and an official order announcement for 30 A330F was posted by a lessor on
30 RichardPrice : Parts supplies all down the chain need ramping up, which cant be done instantly.
31 Slz396 : I am confused now. Are you saying the WSJ is publishing water cooler gossip when they publish an interview with Airbus' Executive VPs Programs and Pr
32 Aviator27 : He was not referring to doubling the production rate of the A320. "Doubling Down" is an American phrase from gambling in the card game "Black Jack".
33 Post contains images Jdevora : It is the first time that I saw an explanation about the PR note about the 330F that was online ony a few hours... Cheers JD
34 Leelaw : Absolutely not, in this case the WSJ article appears to be factual and transparently sourced.
35 Post contains links Jdevora : I don't have any facts about the 330F, but there is a hint about what Sabenapilot is telling is what happened. There was an Airbus press release abou
36 Tak : Quick question: has boeing given any thought to ramping up production of the 737? I know a little about the previous failures, but could that be accom
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Sabenapilot.... ...Hi Wings... I agree..we need PanAM_DC10 to keep up the good work here on A.net and prev
38 Shenzhen : I believe Boeing are also ramping production of the 737, but not to the tune of 40 per month. With nearly 1500 737s in the backlog, they could certai
39 Post contains links Leelaw : "Airbus Ramps Up Production Of Smaller Jets To Make Up For Problems With Big Ones" The Associated Press PARIS — Airbus plans to increase production
40 Scbriml : Two questions. 1) Why? The 40-per month production rate won't be reached till 2009. 2) What is your definition of "not too distant future"?
41 Supa7E7 : THis thread is really pathetic. The Americans are saying their antique is better than Europe's antique A320. Who cares? They are both antiques!! They
42 N328KF : Gee, I guess I imagined that whole 787 thing...
43 Shenzhen : Looking at history, significant production cuts happened in the early 70s, early 80s, early 90s and early 20s. Going on history, I would say shortly
44 Post contains images Glideslope : I'll wager there is a Group in a Starbucks in Seattle as we read. Johnny on the run?
45 FlyDreamliner : Not really, A320 and 737 have been more or less competitive in recent years in terms of their sales. Airbus has said A320NG isn't in the near future,
46 Post contains images Astuteman : Ah, the press - don't you just love them........ Regards
47 2wingtips : Thanks for the explanation re the 330F "dropped" announcement at Farnborough. I have no reason to dispute that, or that the 330F will be eventually la
48 Shenzhen : If Airbus had firm orders for the A330F, then they are now paying compensation on these delays as well. My guess would be that they didn't have firm
49 Scbriml : This seems a bit of a leap. We know very little about the A330F deal, including when they were/are scheduled for delivery, and yet you already have A
50 Shenzhen : I don't have anyone paying anything. Just a little perspective on why a customer would accept a delay to their delivery so that Airbus could keep the
51 Abrelosojos : Congratualations to Airbus. In the end, consumers win. Cheers, A.
52 Post contains images Jdevora : I went to their sites the last weekend for find out the orders since the 737NG launch. Those are the numbers and that's a good oportunity for show th
53 Supa7E7 : Point well taken, but this thread is about A320 and B737, mainly. Those are 10 to 20 year old products any way you slice it. If DVD players were sold
54 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : Since when has a water cooler have anything to do with this? ? It's a valid question. Why? Because, put simply, Boeing remain guarded about their pro
55 Post contains images Scbriml : If Airbus builds them then someone has to pay for them and own them, even if it's a separate entity called "Airbus Leasing". How would this be any di
56 Post contains images Slz396 : First: Then: Not only into his, but also yours, so I'll do my best: That's the second time now we get a confirmation from somebody generally well info
57 Shenzhen : Nothing, except a purchase agreement/deposit from a customer. Cheers[Edited 2006-11-21 10:37:44]
58 Post contains images Scbriml : My prediction is that Airbus will form an entity called something like "Airbus Leasing" and it will place an order and pay deposits for 19 A330s. Air
59 Leelaw : If the transaction is indeed structured in such a manner, any associated inter-company sales revenues would likely be "eliminated" in the process of
60 Scbriml : Presumably: 1) if Airbus builds the planes they're entitled to count them 2) if they're built, someone has to own them (if for no other reason than i
61 Post contains links and images PanAm_DC10 : So that would not be any different to what Boeing did with Hawaiian Airlines and their order for 9 x 763ER in 2001 or their 717 order, even though HA
62 Sabenapilot : Thank you PanAm_DC10 for bringing this discussion back to its factual basis. You once again show you have a clear understanding of the aviation busine
63 Leelaw : Presumably, the inter-company transaction between BCA and BBJ is "eliminated" for consolidated financial statement purposes. However, in the case BBJ
64 Leelaw : Are these capital or operating leases?
65 Slz396 : In short, seems like all accusations made to Airbus are sticking... to Boeing. Anybody still remember these? they announce their orders twice: see Boe
66 Scbriml : The sell-on of a completed BBJ to the end customer is irrelevant from BCA's perspective as the plane was purchased by Boeing Business Jet. Boeing lis
67 Brendows : Announce their orders twice? When? On the 29th of June this summer Boeing published the following regarding the 788s for AM (and not MX): They do not
68 Post contains images Shenzhen : I guess if I was running a company, and could list these as a 2 billion dollar sale, then I would do it also. Therefore, I don't doubt that you will
69 Trex8 : the problem with the Shanghai assembly line was 1. the Chinese carriers didn't want MD80s, they almost had to be forced down their throats 2. the Chi
70 Leelaw : We'll have to agree to disagree. IMO, if Airbus/EADS seeks to become a lessor of equipment its manufactured utilizing operating leases, then it can't
71 Post contains images Scbriml : No problem, we'll see what happens.
72 Post contains images PEK18R36L : Hmm. Not all that much has changed. Chinese airlines take what the government allows ordered, not necessarily the best choice for the economical oper
73 Shenzhen : I think the Chinese market has already spoken. The 150 Boeing airplanes were placed with the airlines quite quickly, whilst Airbus are (I believe) ar
74 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Nice spin, but I think you'll find this is just a function of the different way that Airbus and Boeing handle their Chinese orders. If you look at Ai
75 Post contains images Hamlet69 : " target=_blank>http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre....html Should we tell you nice spin, too? That press release is from last year's GTA (notice dat
76 Post contains links Shenzhen : Well, I worked with Chinese Airlines for over 7 years, so I have a pretty good idea on "how it all works"..... So, you are saying that all the 150 ai
77 Post contains images Scbriml : Ha ha, yes! Hoisted on my own petard. I clicked on the wrong press release and didn't read the date. No, I said that Airbus and Boeing process the or
78 Shenzhen : " target=_blank>http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre....html I don't see how I tried to spin anything. Airbus are still placing the original 150 orde
79 OyKIE : Does nobody have any information about this? Could Airbus move all the final assembly to Germany and still increase the production rate, or should th
80 Shenzhen : Would appear that AWAS owns the HA 767 airplanes... see below...... Hawaiian Airlines Buying 3 Boeing Planes It Currently Leases quote HONOLULU (AP)
81 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Hi Shenzhen. They do now after the agreement reached between AWAS and HA which you refer to announced on November 30th. But that agreement is soley b
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