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Vegas Residents Battle Each Other And FAA  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25200 posts, RR: 48
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Air war in Vegas won't stay in Vegas
A battle over new flight paths is pitting city against county and neighborhoods against one another.

LAS VEGAS --- The aquamarine lake lapped at Greg Toussaint's well tended backyard, beckoning him to take his electric-powered boat, Two Saints, on a spin through serene canals here that border million-dollar homes.

The serenity will not last long: In a move that presents a cautionary tale for Southern California, the Federal Aviation Administration plans to reroute hundreds of departing flights from McCarran International Airport over Toussaint's community, known as The Lakes.
The flight path change has set the city of Las Vegas against Clark County, which operates the airport, and has driven a wedge between residents in this blossoming arid valley.

In Nevada, officials are trying to cope with a 31% jump in flights at McCarran in the last five years. Starting in March, the FAA plans to shift 30% of the takeoffs, an average of 170 flights a day, to the right --- a northwest flight path over many newly built homes in the city of Las Vegas. Today, most flights depart to the south, over dozens of new suburbs outside city boundaries.

The change is necessary because the current flight path restricts how many aircraft can take off in an hour, causing the airport to reduce traffic by up to a million passengers a year, said Randall H. Walker, the county's director of aviation. That translates into a $33.1-million loss for the region's economy, officials found.

But the flight path change has outraged residents, many of whom moved into communities northwest of the airport after 2001. Thousands of newcomers argue that they paid a premium to buy within city limits in areas such as Summerlin --- one of the West's largest and fastest-growing master-planned communities --- because there was no commercial air traffic.



Entire article can be read at
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...egasflights19nov19,1,6596406.story

Article also goes on to discuss how such similar battles might occur in Southern California as the FAA starts studies into its airspace re-design during 2007.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4078 times:

People need to stop making it harder and harder to fly into major airports. How about the airlines just stop flying there because these rich people are gonna whine about it so much. Lets see how their travel opportunities and economy go when air traffic stops?
Anyway, thats probably pretty extreme of me, but seriously. How far away are these neighborhods from the airport? I'd say if it's 10 miles or more you are not gonna be bothered by an airliner on takeoff, it will be too high.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4039 times:

Let's see, what was there first, the houses or the airport? These houses are located on what about 20 years back was scrub land (A quick bit of research turned up that most of this development was built in the late 80s-early 1990s).

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=15...944&spn=0.016983,0.029182&t=h&om=1

Sure LAS was a hell of a lot less busier back then than it is now (these homes date to the early days of the megaresort boom), but the airport is a major component of the economic engine for the region.

This issue is one that won't be solved so easily and the planned airport @ Ivanpah isn't part of an immediate solution.


User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 2):
Let's see, what was there first, the houses or the airport?

Well according to the article, your only half right. Yes the airport was there, BUT, there were no flight paths over these houses. So these homeowners were actually smart about it and bought their houses away from the airport and flight paths. NOW the FAA wants to MOVE the flight paths over their houses, so they have a very valid argument. It's not like the people living in Newport Beach (about 10 min from me), who moved DIRECTLY UNDER the departure end of John Wayne and started complaining about it.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 1):
People need to stop making it harder and harder to fly into major airports

The FAA started it by moving the flight path. Not the residents fault and they are NOT NIMBY's.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 3):
So these homeowners were actually smart about it and bought their houses away from the airport and flight paths.



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 3):
The FAA started it by moving the flight path.

Flight paths change all the time. The FAA wants to do it so the airport can handle more traffic. Which means more money coming into the local economy, more travel opportunities for local residents, ect.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 2):

I've never been on Vegas, but it appears these neighborhoods are a good 5-7 miles away from the airport...correct? An airliner in that period will be several thousand feet up in that time and I seriously doubt the noise at that distance would be a nucience for the residents. It's not like they live at the departure end of the runway.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 4):
I've never been on Vegas, but it appears these neighborhoods are a good 5-7 miles away from the airport...correct? An airliner in that period will be several thousand feet up in that time and I seriously doubt the noise at that distance would be a nucience for the residents. It's not like they live at the departure end of the runway.

These clowns "see" noise......I say, they don't know how lucky they are, LAS could be filled with DC9's, B722's, B732's and such, now that would be noisy!

Sad part is the few times I know of noise complaint groups, one of the lead complainers seems to have been a pilot of an airline that has a crew base or a large presence at that airport, or a corporate pilot of a company with a large flight department based at the airport, oh and they earn their pay check from that/those companies....mmmmmm.  blockhead 



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Back in the late 90s departures off 25R turned NW to head back east so this would not be the first time departures headed in that direction. Planes would easily been 10,000 feet and higher by the time they reach The Lakes. My uncle has a house in that neighborhood, I know exactly where it is in relation to the airport, and these NIMBYs just don't know what the hell they are talking about. If they lived at Russell and Decatur, they might have an argument about flight paths - at the Lakes, not a freaking chance. The Lakes is a good 15 miles from McCarran and you can barely see the planes take off much less hear them. Happy Thanksgiving Summerlin, enjoy all those flight delays you're causing.

Now here's a quote from the article that really pissed me off:

Quote:
"A man from Summerlin, his attitude was, 'I paid a lot of money for my house, I don't want to be bothered by the noise. You're living in the southwest; it's not as nice as Summerlin, why don't you move?' " recalled Arcuri, the Nevada Trails resident.

Why can't this man choke on his own vomit? Gawd I hate Snobberlin.


User currently offlineTransWorldSTL From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

I don't quite understand how people can complain SO much about flightpaths going over their houses..

It's really not that loud at all, especially now-days, unless it's some sort of air force base...

I've always lived directly 12 miles from the end of STL's parallel runways, and even in the days of TWA, and you would hear from the constant departures/landings was a little rumble.. Nothing house shaking.. Deal with it.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25200 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 7):
I don't quite understand how people can complain SO much about flightpaths going over their houses..

Yes and some of it borders on ridiculous.

Similar to Vegas, the FAA is in the process of redesigning the airspace in the NY area which has not changed much since the 1960s.

As a response to the proposed new routes, some city/township is trying to sue to FAA from adopting the changes as aircraft will now pass over the city at altitudes of 15,000-18,000ft.

Give me a break, what can you hear at that altitude!  banghead 

The issue even gained attention in this months congressional election with several candidates openly opposing the FAA's plans two redraw the regions routes.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

They ought to just DO it. If that's what it takes to improve the flow of traffic then that's what it takes. Just because someone's house costs a million dollars are they more important than everyone else?
The airport is a huge economic benefit to the city, possibly allowing for the houses to even be there in the first place.
Airplanes are not that loud anymore. Just a few prima donnas who paid too much for a house with too much time on their hands.


User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

I know that here in DEN we had a big problem with this after DIA opened. Now they screen noise complaints... Those who have lived near DIA before it opened get listened to where as those who just moved in and knew that there is an airport near get the smile and nod.

IIRC I've heard on UA Ch.9 during a takeoff clearence after the heading they said something like Climb and maintain Xft. at Xfpm for noise abatement procedures. Is this right or am I off my rocker?

-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 10):
IIRC I've heard on UA Ch.9 during a takeoff clearence after the heading they said something like Climb and maintain Xft. at Xfpm for noise abatement procedures. Is this right or am I off my rocker?

-Carl

Nope you are correct. Many airports have noise driven departures requiring certain rates of climb, serpentine flight paths and recommended configurations.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
As a response to the proposed new routes, some city/township is trying to sue to FAA from adopting the changes as aircraft will now pass over the city at altitudes of 15,000-18,000ft.

Anything over 2,000 ft of land is controlled by the FAA (hence why certain skyscrapers can't or won't be built if the FAA doesn't want them to be)..

I say "too bad" for the NIMBYS!

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 11):
Quoting AirEMS (Reply 10):
IIRC I've heard on UA Ch.9 during a takeoff clearence after the heading they said something like Climb and maintain Xft. at Xfpm for noise abatement procedures. Is this right or am I off my rocker?

-Carl

Nope you are correct. Many airports have noise driven departures requiring certain rates of climb, serpentine flight paths and recommended configurations.

I've flown out of SNA a few times on AS and the pilot always talks about "noise abatement procedures".



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3330 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Anything over 2,000 ft of land is controlled by the FAA (hence why certain skyscrapers can't or won't be built if the FAA doesn't want them to be)..

Partially correct, and I'll keep this simple.....any large building or object (antenna, etc) located around an airport has to undergo what is known as an FAA 7610 (I believe that's the number) or "Airspace" study. That study will determine whether or not the planned construction will create a hazard to air navigation. If it is determined to be a hazard, and if the FAA approves construction, the hazard will have to be mitigated in some way.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 13):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Anything over 2,000 ft of land is controlled by the FAA (hence why certain skyscrapers can't or won't be built if the FAA doesn't want them to be)..

Partially correct, and I'll keep this simple.....any large building or object (antenna, etc) located around an airport has to undergo what is known as an FAA 7610 (I believe that's the number) or "Airspace" study. That study will determine whether or not the planned construction will create a hazard to air navigation. If it is determined to be a hazard, and if the FAA approves construction, the hazard will have to be mitigated in some way.

Thanks for clarifying.... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Anything over 2,000 ft of land is controlled by the FAA

Can you explain what you mean with this statement please? Reason I ask is Class B airspace I'd consider as being owned by the FAA or the controlling agency and that goes to the surface with so many miles of the primary airport.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineRedTailDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 754 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

These complaining residents need to realize that if houses keep being built, then the airport will keep getting busier.  banghead 


Northwest Airlines. Now you're flying smart! (RIP 1926-2009)
User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 16):
These complaining residents need to realize that if houses keep being built, then the airport will keep getting busier.

Amen to that!

It also seems that the further away they move the Airport from what is the major city and suburbs like they did with DIA, then more people build houses by the Airport and then the Airport is yet again surrounded by population and it starts all over again..... When will the madness stop?

Of course I've also read that, that is one of the factors that led to DIA being so big in terms of land.... Not only for future expansion but so that a/c have some time to climb before flying over neighborhoods... Anyone know if this is true?

-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 17):
It also seems that the further away they move the Airport from what is the major city and suburbs like they did with DIA, then more people build houses by the Airport and then the Airport is yet again surrounded by population and it starts all over again..... When will the madness stop?

Happens with every city. When LAS was built, it was at least a good 3 miles south of any current civilization, I don't think anyone envisioned the Strip extending as far south as it did, and it ended up extending to the western border of the airport. SAT was in the middle of nowhere when it was built, and it is now closer to downtown than the northern edge of the city. Same with IAH, DFW, MSP, MKE, and ORD. Any city with multiple airports you can damn near track the growth of just by looking at the airports.


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 6):
The Lakes is a good 15 miles from McCarran and you can barely see the planes take off much less hear them. Happy Thanksgiving Summerlin, enjoy all those flight delays you're causing.

I have to call BS on this remark.

I lived in The Lakes for 17 years (1988-2005). I can remember as a kid, I would go to sleep at night in my room and hear the planes taking off and making that right turn headed back east. Every. Three. Minutes. At least until the flight rules changed in 2001.

I can remeber looking up at the belly of the aircaft as they were banked to the right making that turn hundreds of times. Trying to figure out what kind of plane it was from its underside (I was never too good at that part, I'd make various guesses from the engine configuration and how big the plane was).

I also remember a few times when I'd be out swimming in our pool in the backyard on those hot as hell summer days, and every so often you'd get a plane that was struggling to get high up and I got an up close view of the a/c, along with an earful of engine noise.

Now I live too far west now to be bothered by LAS air traffic (for the most part), but I am bothered frequently by choppers and props heading up to Red Rock.

And yes, us snobberlin folk are making it difficult for the rest of you. I expect the FAA to prevail but the shitty "we'll do it and you have no influence" attitude of that FAA dork with the glasses hasnt helped the situation.

And BTW Oscar is just posturing for his election next spring. Not like he has a whole lot to worry about.


User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3055 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 19):
And BTW Oscar is just posturing for his election next spring.

Oscar doesn't really have much to say in this issue considering most of the areas in question are not in the city limits of Las Vegas but rather in Unincorporated Clark County. Kinda wierd how Oscar gets credit/criticism for everything within 50 miles of the valley even though his jurisdiction is only about 40% of the population.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 19):
And yes, us snobberlin folk are making it difficult for the rest of you.

Higher elevation must equal higher ego, eh? Make the rest of the city revolve around you? No wonder the rest of the city hates Snobberlin - enjoy all those traffic jams the NW side is famous for.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 19):
I also remember a few times when I'd be out swimming in our pool in the backyard on those hot as hell summer days, and every so often you'd get a plane that was struggling to get high up and I got an up close view of the a/c, along with an earful of engine noise.

An infrequent occurance, maybe 1 out of 20 at the most.

Hmm, everytime I departed off 25R and made the right turn, the turn usually occured between Jones and Rainbow, not Durango, hardly an inconvience for the Lakes. I remember seeing Spanish Trails CC off my left window as we turned right everytime I got to sit on the left side of the plane. Then the departure vector for heading east ran just about directly above Desert Inn Rd. Again, since Desert Inn is the southern border for the Lakes, not really too much sound to worry about up there.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 19):
Now I live too far west now to be bothered by LAS air traffic (for the most part), but I am bothered frequently by choppers and props heading up to Red Rock.

So do you want the FAA to ban air traffic into Red Rock? Shall air traffic supply ignore demand and revolve around your wishes? Why not just move out Tonopah to avoid air traffic period? Oh wait, FedEx does a mail run flight from LAS to there, so that wouldn't work. Try Sandy Valley, oh no, the flights to SoCal will be at 25,000 ft by then, far too noisy for you.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 19):
I expect the FAA to prevail but the shitty "we'll do it and you have no influence" attitude of that FAA dork with the glasses hasnt helped the situation.

Generally, I don't like taking the govt's position on anything, but in this case, these NIMBY's are being just a little too whiny.

[Edited 2006-11-23 07:57:32]

User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3039 times:

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 20):

Oscar doesn't really have much to say in this issue considering most of the areas in question are not in the city limits of Las Vegas but rather in Unincorporated Clark County.

??? All of Summerlin and The Lakes are in the City of Las Vegas. Trust me on that - as I have two CLV SIDs on my Summerlin abode.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 20):
Higher elevation must equal higher ego, eh? Make the rest of the city revolve around you? No wonder the rest of the city hates Snobberlin - enjoy all those traffic jams the NW side is famous for.

You bet  Wink , especially since I live around 3200ft.
Traffic isnt too bad really, once all the 95 work is done it'll be peachy (at least for me, considering I live more W than NW). Plus its not nearly as bad as it is in the SW (Southern Highlands, Mountains Edge).

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 20):

An infrequent occurance, maybe 1 out of 20 at the most.

Hmm, everytime I departed off 25R and made the right turn, the turn usually occured between Jones and Rainbow, not Durango, hardly an inconvience for the Lakes. I remember seeing Spanish Trails CC off my left window as we turned right everytime I got to sit on the left side of the plane. Then the departure vector for heading east ran just about directly about Desert Inn Rd. Again, since Desert Inn is the southern border for the Lakes, not really too much sound to worry about up there.

I remember (one of the few times I flew when I was a kid) was looking out our left side window and looking down and seeing The Lakes. I dont remember seeing spanish trails (spanish hills yes, my dad would point out where Andre Agassi lives).

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 20):

So do you want the FAA to ban air traffic into Red Rock? Shall air traffic supply ignore demand and revolve around your wishes? Why not just move out Tonopah to avoid air traffic period? Oh wait, FedEx does a mail run flight from LAS to there, so that wouldn't work. Try Sandy Valley, oh no, the flights to SoCal will be at 25,000 ft by then, far too noisy for you.

I didnt suggest anything of the sort. I said its annoying but that isnt quite the same. And now you just seem to be being mean/angry.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3030 times:

This crap has been going on sometime. FYI - The Lakes is located 10 miles drive distance from McCarran - don't know how far that is the way the crow flies. And some super-good trivia; Summerlin is Howard Hughes' grandmother's name.

User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3022 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 22):
And some super-good trivia; Summerlin is Howard Hughes' grandmother's name.

Solid trivia - I knew HH's company was involved with the creation of the Summerlin but I didn't know the name connection. BTW, were any other Las Vegans pissed that "The Aviator" didn't mention any of his connections to Las Vegas?

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 21):
Traffic isnt too bad really, once all the 95 work is done it'll be peachy (at least for me, considering I live more W than NW). Plus its not nearly as bad as it is in the SW (Southern Highlands, Mountains Edge).

Even when the Rainbow curve gets completed, it's still a clusterf*ck between noon and 7 pm. And they just finished rebuilding the Blue Diamond exit so the problems with Mountain's Edge and points to Pahrump will dramatically improve. Southern Highlands doesn't have that many traffic problems, and I don't care for those rich c*cksuckers anyways.


User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 4):
I've never been on Vegas, but it appears these neighborhoods are a good 5-7 miles away from the airport...correct?

incorrect, at least 15-20 miles......

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):
LAS could be filled with DC9's

well, it sorta is, AA and G4.....

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 6):
If they lived at Russell and Decatur

i would love to have a house around there. i would never complain.......

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 6):
Why can't this man choke on his own vomit? Gawd I hate Snobberlin.

hmm, thats a new name for it. i live more towards Anthem, god are they shnobby........



[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
25 707lvr : What Las Vegas should really do is make gambling illegal. This would slow down economic growth a bit and allow residents who moved there for the boom
26 Post contains images Jacobin777 : There's your answer...
27 Coronado990 : What I think makes LAS different is that it must be the busiest airport in the nation at midnight. I live 10 miles from Lindbergh Field (SAN) and enjo
28 SJCRRPAX : I guess this needs to be clarified. Sears tower is 1450 feet tall ---- so I guess if it was built on an approach to a runway, the planes should be ab
29 HPLASOps : Okay, if you have not seen the South Park movie, there's a scene where Terrance and Phillip are being interviewed by Conan O'Brien and Brooke Shields
30 SJCRRPAX : I'm pretty sure that was one of those tongue-in-cheek comments. I learned a long time ago that sarcasm, irony and humor don't work well on the intern
31 Jacobin777 : It's 2000 feet high in total..including spire and everything else....
32 SJCRRPAX : I guess you didn't understand my post. You said something about 2000 feet, which I didn't understand. IF the FAA must aprove all buildings over 2000
33 Coronado990 : The displaced threshold at SAN was extended to 1810 feet from 700 feet back in 1971 and is based on the trees in Balboa Park 200 feet above sea level
34 AirEMS : I know that there is an Airport named after HH... And he spent alot of time held up in a casino hotel room going well crazy... but someone else help
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : No building in the United States is close to 2000 ft, even with antenna....also, as noted above, it has to do with the height of the structure in ref
36 Post contains images LASOctoberB6 : wow. that was a ridiculous comment. the city of Las Vegas would die within 2-5 months tops. the school district would probably get shutdown for lack
37 SirOmega : HH had a pissload of land on the W side of LV. He wanted to build an airplane factory. This area is now Summerlin and these are the people fighting t
38 Post contains images Corsair1107 : you know, if you are going to invest in a house near a major airport, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider that you might have some noise from
39 IAHFLYR : That's not an answer.....you mentioned 2,000' of land.....that is what I want expained to me sir!
40 AirEMS : Thanks SirOmega! I wanted to say that there was something like that with HH.. Wasn't his major plant in CA? and he had another one in AZ right?? IIRC
41 Post contains links and images Srbmod : Within a year, the entire area would be a ghost town. If it wasn't for gambling, Las Vegas would have been a ghost town in the 1930s, as the workers
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