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Southwest Jumping On Delta Assets  
User currently offlineORDflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 174 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14618 times:

New reports are reporting Southwest's interest in Delta assets which might be sold off to satisfy any governmental competition concerns.

Southwest is reported to be interested in gates, facilities and aircraft.

This whole mess is getting interesting.


ORDflier
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSWA3GO From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14605 times:

New reports are reporting Southwest's interest in Delta assets which might be sold off to satisfy any governmental competition concerns.[/quote]


Where did you see these reports?


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14530 times:

Quoting ORDflier (Thread starter):
This whole mess is getting interesting.

WN is a very opportunity-driven organization, and I would not be surprised to see Southwest pick through assets DL may cast aside

Just be certain of one thing: WN has zero interest in the any sort of merger or acquisition of DL a la US Airways.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3965 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14534 times:

Gate space anyone? CVG for one is dying for some sizable LCC service....

User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14528 times:

I can understand gates at some airports, but the aircraft strike me as odd. They have no aircraft in common, unless WN wants some 738's, but they have so far indicated the opposite.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14514 times:

Quoting SWA3GO (Reply 1):

Where did you see these reports?

Brief fair use excerpt from The Wall Street Journal:
Quote:

Southwest Aims to Buy Assets If US Air-Delta Deal Gets Done

[...]

Southwest Airlines Chief Executive Gary Kelly said he would be "very interested" in acquiring assets sold by US Airways Group Inc. or Delta Air Lines if the companies were to merge, potentially intensifying the bidding over coveted East Coast routes.

US Airways has said it likely would have to sell off some assets to quell antitrust concerns if its $8.7 billion hostile cash-and-stock bid for Delta succeeds. US Airways CEO Doug Parker said East Coast concerns could be addressed by selling one of the companies' overlapping Eastern shuttle services, which connect Boston, New York and Washington.

[...]

No other airline has signaled interest since the offer was announced, but analysts speculate that AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, Northwest Airlines or UAL Corp.'s United Airlines might be interested.

"We consider this [bid for Delta] a serious offer and a very substantial one, and one that we're assuming has a decent chance of actually happening," Mr. Kelly said in an interview late yesterday.

Mr. Kelly said Southwest Airlines co-founder and Chairman Herb Kelleher on Friday called executives at US Airways and Delta to let each airline know of Southwest's interest. "Assets could include aircraft, gates at airports, slots at slot-controlled airports," said Mr. Kelly, "but this is all very preliminary and who knows what twists and turns the deal will take. We just want to have an opportunity to grow on the East Coast."

[...]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116406637902428854.html

[Edited 2006-11-21 06:12:12]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14487 times:

Delta is seriously getting jumped on. What is going on lately? Is there something about DL that we don't know? Is DL proactivley trying to sell assets or sell the airline?


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14473 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 6):
Delta is seriously getting jumped on. What is going on lately? Is there something about DL that we don't know? Is DL proactivley trying to sell assets or sell the airline?

It's got assets. Specifically, it has ex-PanAm assets (routes/slots). Sort of ironic that US Airways et. al. would be jumping on Delta for the same reason that Delta jumped on Pan Am.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14456 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 4):
unless WN wants some 738's, but they have so far indicated the opposite.

If the price is right, why not?

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
It's got assets. Specifically, it has ex-PanAm assets (routes/slots). Sort of ironic that US Airways et. al. would be jumping on Delta for the same reason that Delta jumped on Pan Am.

You mean some of the most consistently profitable routes in commercial aviation? Pan-Am got in on the ground floor and built a very solid transatlantic operation. Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14432 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 4):
I can understand gates at some airports, but the aircraft strike me as odd. They have no aircraft in common, unless WN wants some 738's, but they have so far indicated the opposite.

If the two carriers were to merge, the "game plan" over at WN would have to change, so we may yet see the 738 reconsidered. The logistic issues regarding a 737-800 fleet are not all together difficult as was discussed in 2004 when WN considered a bid for the TZ 738 fleet.

DL also holds about 50 737NG delivery slots IIRC, so WN may perhaps purchase the purchase rights to new jets  Wink


User currently offlineSWA3GO From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14363 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):

Thanks for the article. Even a "Herb" referece in there. Interesting....


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3581 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13936 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
You mean some of the most consistently profitable routes in commercial aviation? Pan-Am got in on the ground floor and built a very solid transatlantic operation. Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden

Except for LHR, there are no "golden" transatlantic routes since open skies agreements went into effect with most European countries. WN's interest is clearly in the Shuttle operations, as mentioned in the cited article. I would also assume that WN would be interested in any DCA or LGA slots that might also become available.

This would make alot of sense for WN, as this fits perfectly into their business model of domestic short haul point to point service between major metropolitan areas. They know how to run an hourly bus service.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13896 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden.

What routes would these be? Any US airline can fly pretty much anywhere it wants to in Europe with one exception which DL did get from PA (LHR)>


User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13865 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Pan-Am got in on the ground floor and built a very solid transatlantic operation. Those routes, DL's ex pan-am transatlantic routes, are golden

Those routes were golden prior to the "open Skies Agreement", remember after DL soon discovered after purchasing the PanAm transatlantic network they overpaid. A lot of the PanAm routes were abandoned after 9/11. DL has now returned to focusing on the Atlantic from JFK. Unfortunately when DAL scaled back in 2001 and 2002, AA and CO seized the opportunity from BOS and EWR.

DL and USAirways both operate "The Shuttle". I can see SW showing interest. Also, I wonder if SW is banking on JFK consolidating the PHL and wanting to expand PHL?


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13840 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
What routes would these be? Any US airline can fly pretty much anywhere it wants to in Europe with one exception which DL did get from PA (LHR)>

 checkmark 


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13825 times:

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_...-for/n20061121080109990003?cid=403

If you read this version, the article's idiot author writes about Southwest's service to Manchester, Vt.!


User currently offlineScaledesigns From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13795 times:

This is a nothing article.If the US/DL merger happened they would be forced
to sell some of the east coast operation by the goverment.Southwest is just getting in line,along with everybody else.



F1 Tommy
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3581 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13762 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
What routes would these be? Any US airline can fly pretty much anywhere it wants to in Europe with one exception which DL did get from PA (LHR)>

DL did not get any LHR rights from Pan Am. DL does not have any LHR rights.


User currently offlineTPAnx From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13765 times:

Interesting. Recently read an article in one of the local papers headlined:
"What if they flew internationally?" It noted that SW flew more people
domestically than AA flew domestically and internationally. I'm not a fan of SW, but you have to admire the business model.
TPAnx



I read the news today..oh boy
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13723 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 13):
Also, I wonder if SW is banking on JFK consolidating the PHL and wanting to expand PHL?

WN would be interested in slots/gates at LGA, DCA, BOS and PHL.
There's also the possibility of US moving most if not all of DL's JFK operations to PHL, that would give WN a place to build a large operation in the NYC area.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13709 times:

Perhaps WN would buy one of the LGA-BOS-DCA shuttles. That would fit into their general way of ops, of fast turnaround and the like. Clearly they could use 737's on those routes, so no problem there, and could run it with non-WN models for a while due to their route specificity. If as part of a deal they added gates from DL or US to their ATA gates, especially at LGA they already have, then they they could get a good foothold into all three markets at primary airports. It may also push some price competition into those markets on key routes, especially the shuttle.

User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13528 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 20):
Perhaps WN would buy one of the LGA-BOS-DCA shuttles. That would fit into their general way of ops, of fast turnaround and the like.

They could also take over the Marine terminal at LGA which would give them an advantage for the short turnarounds.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 17):
DL did not get any LHR rights from Pan Am. DL does not have any LHR rights

Thanks for the correction. I left out the word not.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13292 times:

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 21):
They could also take over the Marine terminal at LGA which would give them an advantage for the short turnarounds.

LGA & DCA are the New York and Washington area airports WN covets getting slots into, and since US would have to divest more than just one or the other east coast shuttles, some of these slots would be $$$ for Doug Parker to gain back from Gary Kelly.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13228 times:

WN is picking up a bigger piece of the pie here at MCO...i think they're up to 100 flights a day now, maybe more (?). They took some of DL slots/gates here.

25 LawnDart : Actually, the article states Delta and/or USAirways assets...The aircraft in question are probably US's 733s, not DL's 738s...the gates in question a
26 777FlyGuy : As with many threads on this board, people are putting the cart WAAAAY before the horse. This merger is far from a done deal. No one at DL wants it, t
27 Zone1 : I really don't see WN taking over the BOS-LGA part of Delta Shuttle. They have no presence at BOS, and there really isn't anything stopping them righ
28 TVNWZ : You do deals when the time is right financially, not necessarily operationally. It's all about the money--not operations.
29 777FlyGuy : So then the HP/US merger has proven financially sound and they are already making such profits that they feel they can shell out $8 billion for anoth
30 AtlBill : Not that this would happen, however a Southwest and Delta merger makes a lot more sense from a route perspective then USAir and Delta.
31 Coa747 : I for one do not think US Airways buying Delta would be a good thing. US Airways still hasn't worked out all the wrinkles of the first merger/buyout a
32 Post contains images Ptharris : I see where you're coming from, but you're right... it won't happen. Couple of things I see: US - Internationally Recognized DL - Internationally Rec
33 DLPMMM : But LGA is slot restricted and space limited. No use in having a presence in BOS with no where to go! There is a reason that the BOS-LGA-DCA shuttles
34 Post contains images DfwRevolution : That's laughable. WN's success has been observed, praised, and copied all over the world. US and DL have been poster children of the ailing legacy ca
35 MtnWest1979 : Well, WN could pick up a DCA-LGA-BOS shuttle, but run it as a seperate entity, like Northeast Shuttle or something. Could even have business class,etc
36 HPRamper : Most of that money is, in fact, coming from stock options which in no way affect the bottom line of US. Those stocks, by the way, are nearing an all-
37 Planemaker : Well, it looks like they certainly will need them... The BTS released the August traffic numbers and guess what... Southwest hauled more pax than any
38 ScottB : Well, I do have to wonder if Gary Kelly is trying to stir the pot a bit here. One of the main reasons why Delta's creditors/Wall Street might be incli
39 DfwRevolution : Ptharris' absolute statement that WN is not interested in code-share or alliance traffic is false. I'm not "proving a point," I'm correcting an assum
40 777FlyGuy : Correct. Now what will happen to those employees after the estimated 10% capacity cut (probably larger) takes place? The redundancy on the east coast
41 AvConsultant : Jet Airways (India) placed a deposit on these aircraft with GECAS when DL entered BK last year. Grinstein was angered with GECAS acceptng the deposit
42 AvConsultant : Jet Airways (India) placed a deposit on these aircraft with GECAS when DL entered BK last year. Grinstein was angered with GECAS accepting the deposi
43 Post contains images Ptharris : Are you serious? ATA? My God man, I was talking about a REAL airline. HAHA!! And lets see who is working with them.... umm... oh look... only Southwe
44 Post contains images Ptharris : Now that's bold. Please, share with us the attempts WN has made with other carriers to codeshare. Or the attempts of other airlines to try and share
45 DfwRevolution : If you want to belittle me, you'll have to try again. Better yet don't: grow up, or stop posting. ATA is a legitimate code-share partner and the two
46 ElmoTheHobo : ... which for the most part have near perfect safety records, have been consistently profitable and higher customer satisfaction rates than their blo
47 DfwRevolution : It's fact. Sometimes that hurts They are code-sharing with TZ at this very moment. See: ATA The code-share agreement was a condition requested by TZ
48 Ptharris : Sir, if you feel I was belittling you, please get ahold of yourself. Merely trying to illustrate a point that you obviously aren't going to listen to
49 Post contains images Rampart : What, are you some shipwrecked executive from Braniff 1972 and just washed onshore? WN carrying more passengers than any other US airline is lost on
50 Post contains images OPNLguy : The title of this thread is misleading; Southwest isn't "jumping" on anything (as if it's in progress). The article only says Southwest has expressed
51 Spartanmjf : AAARRRGH - not that! Please no - the PHL mess is bad, has been bad, and will continue to be so.......
52 B777ER : Are you insane? That will never happen. Give up the number 1 international destination and the largest O&D market for that step child wannabe city to
53 Post contains images Antoniemey : They could want 738s to go with a package on one of the Shuttle operations, as others have noted... or they could get those to trade with other airli
54 DfwRevolution : I do take it personally when someone with any degree of experience or knowledge in this industry laughs or ridicules my comments. I treat all individ
55 Vega : Really, have you ever been to DL's operation at JFK, or JFK in general? It has the same if not more problems than PHL - and US's problems at PHL, exc
56 Bobnwa : Is sending a private message full of vulgarities, an example of treating individuals with respect. I guess you do not like to be disagreed with.
57 SLCUT2777 : Parker an entrepreneur? NO; A Manipulator? YES. The jury has rendered at least this much of a verdict. I really think the dust has yet to settle on t
58 Post contains images Planemaker : The jury? Which jury are you talking about... Wall Street? ...Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl said in a report that he believes the industry is f
59 MCOflyer : Thats because MCO offers less delays. We even moved more pax than MIA. It wouldn't surprise me if WN gets all of DL's gates. MCOflyer
60 Galapagapop : I could see WN interested in gates, equipment, and probably 733's and 738's if the price was just right (50+ is enough to really give the subfleet val
61 Jimbobjoe : The title of the thread is misleading, but Southwest is doing more than just getting in line for an assets auction. (If that's all they were doing, t
62 Flyibaby : That is one of the craziest ideas I have heard. Why would you want to pull service which appears to be predominately O&D from JFK which just happens
63 NASCARAirforce : WN is in Airside 4 now at MCO?
64 ScottB : I don't really get that either. It would be a dream scenario for Continental, but PHL doesn't have sufficient international facilities to support an
65 HPRamper : Have you checked the fleet numbers pre- and post-US/HP merger? Same thing happened...capacity was cut, aircraft were retired (and a lot of them) and
66 STT757 : What up grades, the HVAC work? DL's facilities at JFK are nearly 50 years and definetly show their age, they have not had a major overhaul or expansi
67 DLPMMM : Except that PHL is in Phillidelphia! That is a much smaller O&D market than NYC. People from NYC will generally not drive/ride to PHL to catch an int
68 STT757 : Even after a merger with US Airways a combined carrier would still be behind CO,AA and B6 in the NYC Market.
69 777FlyGuy : People speculate on a.net? nahhhhh! I wasn't referring specifically to cutting a/c. HP and US had very little overlap so yes, I can see where layoffs
70 HPRamper : I think almost every other airline in the region, especially the Southeast, stands to benefit. Southwest and AirTran included. What I see happening i
71 Flyibaby : I disagree. Most DL ramps are already contracted nationwide with the exception of the bigger key cities. I see DGS (Delta Global Services) being sold
72 Pope : My 2 cents on this is that WN is just trying to muck up the waters for DL. One of the arguments DL is making to creditors is that mgt's restructuring
73 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Anyone who can figure out that this proposal is financial "Snake-Oil" rather than the saving fix for DL that Parker orchestrated last year for US. I
74 HPRamper : I'm not counting DGS as airline employees, since DL itself really does not...having created the company basically to cut themselves a break. I'm sure
75 Ualcsr : But you see, part of WN's and FR's success is due to their knowing their spot in the airline world and their role in it. WN may have carried more pax
76 Aa757first : Because WN would have to put four flight attendants on it instead of the three it now uses fleet wide. This creates scheduling problems. IE: Three fl
77 OPNLguy : I've mentioned this before, but the above issues are not really all that problematic. We already have different seating capacities (122 seat -500s vs
78 AirRyan : Yup, just like nearly every other carrier out there - this is an explanation perhaps but it is not a prohibititve reason as to why WN cannot do the 7
79 OPNLguy : If it is, they sure haven't said anything here. The -700 seems to have the best balance between range/payload of the NG family. I have to wonder if t
80 SESGDL : I don't know where your statistics came from. If DL/US merged they would carry (from September 2006 YTD stats) 14,893,758 passengers in the New York
81 Vega : We're only talking about DL here, not the entire International O&D population at JFK. Further, I'd bet a large % of JFK DL international passengers a
82 SESGDL : DL is the sole carrier on JFK to a number of European cities. Secondly, PHL could never support service to cities like PSA, SVO, IST, ATH, BUD, KBP,
83 AirRyan : I'm sure nothing is concrete as of now but when it comes time to replace the current B737 with a similar Boeing sized upgrade, I'd be surprised if th
84 Cloudy : Suppose WN took some used -800's and put 149 seats in them. This avoids the need for the 4th flight attendant. You still get 12 extra seats and much b
85 OPNLguy : That was my recollection as well, and why I thought we'd be seeing nothing but -700s until that replacement design starts coming off the Boeing line.
86 N200WN : I really don't see the -800's coming to Southwest. But, I guess anything is possible and it wouldn't surprise me, especially with the gate limitation
87 Planemaker : OK, so your answer to "what jury" in response to your claim that "the jury has rendered its verdict" is really only yourself. I can appreciate your "
88 FCYTravis : Oh really? Perhaps you'd best tell US that, because they're set to open PHL-ATH daily service in the spring of 2007 along with BRU and ZRH, and they'
89 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Sorry to bust "your" egotistical bubble but the jury is many, and when I say many, there are still many skeptics aside from myself that this is a ver
90 Planemaker : No "ego" or "bubble" there. So, as I said earlier, not keeping to facts undermines any points you are trying to put out there. As I already mentioned
91 HPRamper : Why would WN want anything to do with the old HP/US 733s? Those things are so rickety...good tough planes, but they are ready for retirement, for the
92 AvConsultant : US is only a name. This is airline is completely different from the twice BK US. Q106 and Q206 they posted a profit. Q306 had an operational profit o
93 Post contains images FCYTravis : I think you missed the sarcasm in my post
94 AvConsultant : Wow, I did miss. LOL.
95 Surfdog75 : Way to early to call Parker the second coming of Gordon Bethune. Sure he's had a couple profitable quarters but he's done it on the backs of the lowe
96 VEEREF : Except of course on those days where 31 is used for departures then they are on the far opposite side of the airport, and have to cross the active la
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