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Continental Dumps RegionsAir; PKB/CKB Want Change  
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

The only thing surprising about this is that Continental put their name on the planes in the first place.

http://www.mariettatimes.com/news/story/new44_1121200682139.asp

Quote:
The Mid-Ohio Regional Airport Authority voted Monday to take the next step to replace carrier RegionsAir.

Officials unanimously decided to ask the U.S. Department of Transportation to send out an emergency request for proposals to provide federally subsidized essential air service at the airport as soon as possible.

[...]

The decision to seek a new carrier was made because Continental announced a split with RegionsAir, citing reliability issues after repeated delays and cancellations. It also was announced last week that the company was up for sale, citing higher-than-anticipated aircraft maintenance costs and revenue shortfalls.

[...]

Continental has announced it will stop taking reservations, but will continue to allow people to schedule flights until a certain date, which has not been announced, Strock said.

See also this article.

More comments later.


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

I posted this a few days ago which it mentions that in the article.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3104294/



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 5255 times:

Maybe CommuteAir will step in.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

It sounds as if the STL operation is organizationally and financially independent from the CLE operation. That's pretty fast footwork for a corporation that was already on the ropes a year ago. Some bankers must be pretty unhappy as this plays out.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 5146 times:

They should try to get Mesaba Saab service to DTW under EAS service.

Perhaps some some of one-stop arrangement DTW-PKB-CKB-DTW twice daily could work.


User currently offlineKL662 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Interesting. I've been flying into CKB through CLE every week for the past month or so; never had a problem. The RegionsAir crews couldn't be nicer, and every flight has been either early or on time.

By and large, it's a much better alternative than PIT, but getting to CLE from SAN is a little difficult. Had to route SAN-LAX-CLE-CKB -- Saabs on both ends!  Smile

(BTW, what's up with all the Independence Air planes at CKB? Are they just being used for parts?)


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
It sounds as if the STL operation is organizationally and financially independent from the CLE operation. That's pretty fast footwork for a corporation that was already on the ropes a year ago.

Of course, you can't actually believe anything RegionsAir says, what with their recent history. After all, their entire business plan for the Saab operation was based on telling a bunch of outrageous lies to a slew of naive communities--PKB/CKB/MGW, BFD/JHW, LNS, BKW/BLF, DUJ, LWB--and thus get selected at enough of them to achieve critical mass. Unfortunately for them, even though the lies were working, the wheels were falling off the operation even faster. Take the number of Saabs in the fleet, for example. They now state they have three birds to move, when they've been swearing to anyone who'll listen for months that they had four planes, and they promised the DOT when trying to salvage the BFD/JHW contract that they had irrevocably committed to leasing further additional planes. The truth? Hell if I know.

And I wouldn't bet on that STL operation lasting for long. They're screwing that up as well. Take PAH. RegionsAir posted a 43% completion factor there in July. They cancelled 57% of their flights to PAH in July! I've never in my life seen a number anything like that. It was so bad, and in such egregious breach of their obligations, that the DOT notes "Although we understand some situations cannot be avoided, the number of cancellations RegionsAir had during the 90-day notice period is unacceptable. In fact, had Paducah been a subsidized community, the Department would likely have withheld subsidy payments to the carrier due to its poor performance. However, Paducah’s service is not subsidized and the carrier has already vacated the community. Nonetheless, we have forwarded this matter to the Department’s General Counsel for Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings for fiuther investigation. In addition, when selecting air carriers to provide subsidized EAS, the program’s governing statute requires that we consider the demonstrated reliability of applicants in providing scheduled air service." Again, the DOT uses stronger language with RegionsAir than they've ever used with other airlines, and implicitly threatens not to reselect them at STL EAS markets due to the PAH debacle. As I mentioned before, American Airlines had to put their reputation with the DOT on the line in sticking up for RegionsAir. It's only a matter of time IMO before RegionsAir pisses off AA by ruining its brand in small markets as it did to CO's. And not just PAH--look at other STL markets like IRK or UIN that are furious with RegionsAir's constant stream of cancellations and double-digit monthly cancellations.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
They should try to get Mesaba Saab service to DTW under EAS service.

Perhaps some some of one-stop arrangement DTW-PKB-CKB-DTW twice daily could work.

Colgan will be the favorite to replace RegionsAir at the West Virginia communities, likely with US Airways Express service to a combination of PIT and DCA (yes, DCA), but possibly with United Express service to IAD. I don't expect Air Midwest to bid on any additional markets in the East anytime soon, as they're rather short on planes right now. I also don't think a Mesaba bid would be competitive if they chose to make one.

Also, PKB gets more traffic than the other two communities, and has traditionally had more stand-alone flights, with CKB/MGW generally sharing most of their flights.

Of course, historical traffic levels at all three communities have gone to hell since RegionsAir got involved. The decline at PKB in enplanements has cost it $850,000 in annual FAA grants. The decline at CKB in enplanements will likely cost it all of its scheduled air service within 6 years.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

The irony is that in the last month, Regions has had pretty good reliability, actually. But the problem is they're reliable for a while, and then the a/c seem to fall apart again. A little over a month ago, Regions had an O-fer day out of CLE: every arrival and departarue was cancelled because all four a/c were out of service. That was sad.

Any chance a new carrier could run the route out of CLE?


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Any chance a new carrier could run the route out of CLE?

CommutAir could certainly bid on the route if they wanted to, but they won't get it. Their 19-seat costs are not at all competitive. The only EAS routes they win are the ones where no other carriers bother to bid. They used to apply for more routes, but their costs were so out of line, they haven't been bothering as much lately, so I doubt they'll bid on this. I'm not sure what their Dash costs will be like, though.

CommutAir (or another Continental Connection operator) wouldn't get community support anyway, since the communities will certainly want to make a clean break away from CLE and the CO brand, to reinforce in the travelers' minds that there is a change in service to something more reliable.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
CommutAir could certainly bid on the route if they wanted to, but they won't get it. Their 19-seat costs are not at all competitive.

But remember, Commutair is switching over to the Q200's next year, and could make a case that they are much more reliable and solid that anything Regions had, which is true.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
CommutAir (or another Continental Connection operator) wouldn't get community support anyway, since the communities will certainly want to make a clean break away from CLE and the CO brand, to reinforce in the travelers' minds that there is a change in service to something more reliable.

Possible, but don't be surprised that CO makes a pitch to those cities that with a reliable carrier like Commutair, that CLE is still a good hub to help these markets grow a bit, especially with CO making plans for expansion out of CLE in '07 and '08.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
But remember, Commutair is switching over to the Q200's next year, and could make a case that they are much more reliable and solid that anything Regions had, which is true.

No one is arguing that CommutAir is reliable. But so is Colgan (and Air Midwest and Mesaba and so on). So it'll come down to cost. And CommutAir will be too expensive.

The last time CommutAir bid against Colgan for BFD/JHW, CommutAir's costs for the *Beech* were 60% higher than Colgan's costs for the *Saab*.

And again, I don't think CommutAir will bother to bid anyway.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
Possible, but don't be surprised that CO makes a pitch to those cities that with a reliable carrier like Commutair, that CLE is still a good hub to help these markets grow a bit, especially with CO making plans for expansion out of CLE in '07 and '08.

Continental won't be making any pitch at all, as they couldn't care less which markets CommutAir is serving under their pro-rate agreement.

And all the communities would see anyway is that, in their minds, Continental and Cleveland was the combination that ruined their air service and enplanements. They won't be worried about specifics like the exact operator. Keep in mind that these are the same people after all that selected RegionsAir's original bid, which promised Delta Connection service to CVG. They just don't know any better. (That the DOT lets these communities make ignorant decisions like that is another matter...)



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineAmtrakGuy From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
especially with CO making plans for expansion out of CLE in '07 and '08.

Refresh my mind....what's CO plans for CLE in '07 and '08?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 11):
Refresh my mind....what's CO plans for CLE in '07 and '08?

-CO is adding two new banks of flights, slated for mid-February.

-Chataqua will be taking over some COEX flights out of CLE.

-Commutair will be taking posession of 37-seat Q-200's, and expanding their presence in CLE

-In '08, CO begins seasonal nonstop CLE-CDG service.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):

A quote from within the article linked to this thread:

"Earlier this week, Caldwell said Continental Connection officials told him they want to replace RegionsAir."

So, yes, Continental IS interested in continuing the service, despite your belief that they don't care. They do care, trust me.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
CO is adding two new banks of flights, slated for mid-February.

Do you happen to know what time those banks are going to be at? That will bring them to 6??


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 14):
Do you happen to know what time those banks are going to be at? That will bring them to 6??

10am and 2pm. And that will bring the total number of banks out of CLE to 9 banks, not 6. Banks will be, approximately at 9am, 10am, 1130am, 1pm, 215pm, 330pm, 5pm, 7pm, and 830pm.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
10am and 2pm. And that will bring the total number of banks out of CLE to 9 banks, not 6. Banks will be, approximately at 9am, 10am, 1130am, 1pm, 215pm, 330pm, 5pm, 7pm, and 830pm.

Thanks for the info. I couldn't remember. I do remember back when COEx was running the 1900s they had usually 4 daily flights to their stations like TOL, FNT, and FWA. Do you think they will return to that form also? I know some still only have 3 flights a day. Or will these banks be mainline banks? Thanks...


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Wow.... who saw this coming....  sarcastic 


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
So, yes, Continental IS interested in continuing the service, despite your belief that they don't care. They do care, trust me.

As mentioned, at this point I wouldn't believe Doug Caldwell if he told me the Earth was round.

Besides, COConx doesn't have an operator cheap enough to win the bid. Three small West Virginia EAS markets are not going to make or break the CLE hub.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 4445 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
Three small West Virginia EAS markets are not going to make or break the CLE hub.

Every merger thread on A.net assumes the CLE hub gets closed. CLE needs every flight and market they can get.  Wink

IIRC from looking at the numbers a while ago, PKB has more traffic than the other two combined and is about 100 mi closer to CLE than to Washington airports. Maybe CLE could try to keep PKB.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 19):
Every merger thread on A.net assumes the CLE hub gets closed. CLE needs every flight and market they can get.  Wink

Haha! Yes, that's true, I mean, we're closing next week, according to the armchair CEO's on here. Nevermind the planned flight EXPANSION for next year.

Either way, CO is never shy about going into markets. I do thnk CO Connection and CO will try and make arrangements to keep the flights here. If not, no, it's not going to kill the hub. I would imagine, perhaps, that maybe CO Connection might go back anyway in a few years once they're well into their CLE expansion.


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):

No one is arguing that CommutAir is reliable. But so is Colgan (and Air Midwest and Mesaba and so on).

I don't know about you, but I know of one distinct instance in which Air Midwest was absolutely horrible - their last two years in RDG before USAirways Express service was terminated to that city. Service was so bad that USAirways began chartering a bus to carry passengers to PHL in place of the plane!

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Chataqua

Chautauqua



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineAmtrakGuy From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 16):
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 14):
Do you happen to know what time those banks are going to be at? That will bring them to 6??

10am and 2pm. And that will bring the total number of banks out of CLE to 9 banks, not 6. Banks will be, approximately at 9am, 10am, 1130am, 1pm, 215pm, 330pm, 5pm, 7pm, and 830pm.

And this will bring to what # of flights? Will I (and many others) have easy time to make connection flights to west coast from east coast (visa versa)? The last time I tried to use CLE, they weren't going where I want to go and/or the timing was not as good as I would like.

And do you know how many new flights will be mainline and RJ/Prop?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 22):
And this will bring to what # of flights? Will I (and many others) have easy time to make connection flights to west coast from east coast (visa versa)?

The flights have not been loaded yet into the system. But that's the timetable-2nd to last week of February.

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 22):
And do you know how many new flights will be mainline and RJ/Prop?

I have no information on the breakdown of what will be what with regards to the kind of equipment.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
"Earlier this week, Caldwell said Continental Connection officials told him they want to replace RegionsAir."

And we're supposed to believe Caldwell now because he has such a great track record of telling the truth? Like when he told the communities in the first place that there service would be Delta Connection to CVG?

Quoting Redngold (Reply 21):
I don't know about you, but I know of one distinct instance in which Air Midwest was absolutely horrible - their last two years in RDG before USAirways Express service was terminated to that city.

I'll certainly admit that Air Midwest had their own bad service issues about 4-5 years ago, when their reliability was not as good as the other "reliable" EAS providers, and nowhere near what it is now that their service has improved dramatically.

But I'd also note that never was their reliability anywhere remotely near as bad as RegionsAir's is. I dare you to find *one* city that's happy with their RegionsAir service right now. I know the West Virginia folks sure wish they still had Air Midwest instead of RegionsAir.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
25 Post contains links A330323X : And PKB is the first one to officially make a move, with their letter requesting that the DOT issue an emergency RFP to replace RegionsAir. Some highl
26 Falcon84 : Yes, they have, but I can tell you for a fact that in the last month, their reliability has gone way up, and they've cancelled very few flights. That
27 CLE757 : If this was going to happen, new flights would already be in the schedule.
28 A330323X : I have no doubt that their reliability has greatly improved. But it went from horrendous to merely extremely bad. Think of it this way--if they only
29 Falcon84 : In their defense, the last month, they've been very good, not extremely bad. I can vouch for that.
30 AmtrakGuy : Okay...how many flights are going in/out of CLE? and breakdown with mainline and RJ/Prop? this should give us ideas how much growth will happened. Th
31 Falcon84 : Whatever. That's what I've heard, from multiple sources, in EIT and in management. Oh...I forgot...management: they're those nasty liars whom you can
32 KcrwFlyer : Does XJ even have any EAS routes on this side of the country? I thought it was all Midwest stuff. Does Colgan even have the planes to do that right n
33 A330323X : They've bid for a couple (including PKB as a matter of fact), but Mesaba usually isn't competitive with its bids in the East. With respect to the PKB
34 KcrwFlyer : Even though they can do DCA, I'm pretty sure IAD would be more successfull
35 A330323X : No, DCA would be far more successful. They'll have a much better time drawing business travellers (and higher yields from those travellers). And the
36 SHUPirate1 : Isn't there an FAA directive of some sort (or something from the alphabet quacks) banning nineteen-seat aircraft from Washington-National?
37 Post contains images A330323X : Didn't I already say that? It wouldn't pose a problem for Colgan, who would operate the Saab 340B on the route under the DCA scenario.
38 ATCT : Yea who saw this coming? Im glad this airline is going kaput. As a former employee I can say it is 10 times worse than it appears. The People (non-man
39 Falcon84 : A bit of an update, AmtrakGuy, on the status of what I told you about the new banks I mentioned. Was talking to one of our ATO management people, and
40 A330323X : I can't comment on the flight crews, who would obviously be likely to go along with the planes if the fleet is sold, but otherwise might be out of lu
41 ATCT : The pilots are unionized, though its not a strong one. (I believe its Teamsters). The F/a's are not unionized. ATCT
42 Gigneil : *slap* NS
43 KcrwFlyer : Anything you see with 50 seats and jet engines in LWB was paid for by the Greenbrier. Thats not demand my friend. Those flights are far from full. In
44 A330323X : The Greenbrier subsidizes the flights, but certainly does not pay for them. With regards to the US flights in particular, the Greenbrier also does no
45 Post contains links A330323X : And now it's CKB's turn to formally ask the DOT to issue an emergency RFP. Some highlights: MGW is still taking their good old time, assuming that the
46 Nkops : I remember when US was doing the 737-200 between LWB-LGA... the most I ever saw on there was about 50 pax, but the yield was extremely high I believe
47 Post contains links A330323X : And MGW makes all three of them. http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf99/432424_web.pdf The overly optimistic local newspaper seems to think an Emergency
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