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LH In Latin America  
User currently offlineEastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 875 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Is the carrier planning any expansions in Latin America in 2007?. Plans for opening new markets or returning to others?


AA will Rise Again!
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

I just hope they return to BOG again after many years of servicing BOG - FRA.
Anybody knows if this is in their plans?



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3829 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

We discuss this a few weeks ago, just considering south America. Please take a look:

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3057747/

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 1051 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

Quoting Eastern023 (Thread starter):
Is the carrier planning any expansions in Latin America in 2007?

In short: no
According to them it is due to lack of resources (aircraft) because they need all they have on both existing on new asian markets. They say more revenue can be generated in asia than in latin-america.
True to some extend but of course there are others exploiting LH's lack of courage in the area.

But who wants to fly LH anyway??? In econ they are on par with IB, so don't expect more  Wink



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting Eastern023 (Thread starter):
Is the carrier planning any expansions in Latin America in 2007?.

CCS is upgraded from 5/7 to daily in summer 2007. So far this seems to be all.

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 3):

But who wants to fly LH anyway??? In econ they are on par with IB, so don't expect more Wink

That's funny, really funny  drunk   eyepopping  ! I love the German sense of humor !


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

I'm hoping that once they get more aircraft for expansion, they seriously look at serving in Central America with flights into GUA and with an almost now standard SJO-PTY triangular route, both with A343s, two class A346s or 77Ws (if ordered). SJO is already served by DE through SDQ, but with the, albeit remote, possibility of KL restarting service into Central America or AF entering the market as a new entrant, there just might be a market for traditional European carriers in Central America and they could compete against IB's de facto Central America monopoly (I'm saying monopoly because IB is the only major European PAX carrier which serves Central America on a daily basis).

User currently offlineEastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 3):
But who wants to fly LH anyway??? In econ they are on par with IB, so don't expect more

Well, LH may be okay to mediocre. But Iberia bad?. C'mon now.



AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 3):
But who wants to fly LH anyway???

Now let´s get serious here Stratosfish. Compared to what Lufthansa used to be in the 90s, how would your good self rate your home airline right now, when the skies have just gotten slightly more competitive and operating costs have soared ???

I had wonderful experiences flying LH from MEX and DFW to FRA; PEK to FRA and DUS to NRT frequently from 1991 to 1997, and found Lufty to be just excellent every single time; very consistent, efficient and friendly the German way.

I do really miss Lufthansa and their " Café de Colombia "; Just would like to try them again on a very long haul run. What about FRA-SIN ???

Best regards

P.S. Don´t mind no PTVs in coach... read a lot !!!



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting XA744 (Reply 7):
" Café de Colombia ";

a reall shame they replaced it to cheap coffee from PERU !!!!  bigthumbsup 



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 8):
a reall shame they replaced it to cheap coffee from PERU !!!!

Well, that´s very sad to hear. So it does looks like LH is badly cutting on operating costs !!!

.. Nothing beats a cup of freshly brewed aromatic Colombian coffee, any time... any where !!!

Best regards



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently onlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

I just don't seem to get tired of talking about LH in Latin America.

On many threads about this topic in the past I have said time and again that LH is an airline run by common business sense before it is run on legacy routes and prestige. They will launch Kolkata before returning to Bogota or Quito, Pusan will see LH metal when Lima and Guadalajara won't even be on their connection list, even Montreal will make the list seasonally at the expense of Rio de Janeiro. Although incomprehensible to most of us, I'm sure they're all decisions that make sense when considering the bottom line. If Bogota will put $10 in my pocket and Seoul will put $15, guess what... Seoul will see a 2nd daily flight before Bogota sees its first.

Knowing LH, I wouldn't be surprised if they cut New York (if it starts loosing money) from their network and instead fly to Montpelier (Vermont)...

With regards to your question, though, I believe that when the anticipated order of aircraft is delivered, LH will work down its list of priority destinations (money making ones) and soon we should see a Latin American city or 2 that would make the cut. In order of importance I would see Rio being returned to the network, followed by Bogota or Guadalajara. Buenos Aires served by its own dedicated flight would be also up there, then Lima.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):
LH is an airline run by common business sense before it is run on legacy routes and prestige.

That is so true, and as far as I know some of the guys over there, they are the absolute champions at running the numbers and then deciding on how to optimally invest scarce available resources. Just look at how CPT had to go last summer for the sake of extra PVG service. No scrupules at all there, and that is really the way things should be. Economics should drive network development, not misplaced national pride or prestige. There's quite some airlines here and there that could learn a thing or two from Lufthansa in this respect.


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):
With regards to your question, though, I believe that when the anticipated order of aircraft is delivered, LH will work down its list of priority destinations (money making ones) and soon we should see a Latin American city or 2 that would make the cut. In order of importance I would see Rio being returned to the network, followed by Bogota or Guadalajara. Buenos Aires served by its own dedicated flight would be also up there, then Lima.

Guadalajara would be neat, but I don't think Lufthsansa has anything to do there! Lufthansa has served Mexico quite well in the past, having service at one point to Mexico City, Monterrey, and Merida and Lufthansa Cargo also had service to the city of Puebla thanks to the huge German investment there, but GDL has never or will ever see Lufthsansa. On the other hand, it was Air France who had service to GDL, today Air France Cargo operates into GDL every Sunday of the year.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 8):
a reall shame they replaced it to cheap coffee from PERU !!!!

That sucks!!!!! The only airlines that seem to serve our coffee now are AV and AA!

Quoting XA744 (Reply 9):
.. Nothing beats a cup of freshly brewed aromatic Colombian coffee, any time... any where !!!

YEs! BTW, Is there already a Juan Valdez cofee shop in MExico City?

It´s already been said by some american media: Starbucks, but cheaper and actually good. (Though i don´t dislike Starbucks)


I think that whne LH recives their A380s or if they take EK´s 346s, we will see the following changes in the region:

GIG returns. Daily A343 to FRA. Goes to A346 later.
EZE gets dedicated flight. A343 then changes to A346.
BOG returns. 3x weekly A343 to FRA.
SCL gets LH back, LX quits. A346 via GIG maybe.
LIM returns. 3x weekly A343 to FRA.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3225 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 13):
YEs! BTW, Is there already a Juan Valdez cofee shop in MExico City?

Roberto, I´m afraid not. I don´t live in Mexico City any more; have moved to Puerto Vallarta on the Mexican Pacific Riviera, where the breeze is mild and the life is warm !!!

I am almost certain that there are no Juan Valdez coffee shops anywhere in Mexico just yet. I truly believe and know Colombian coffee is the best, and it would be just wonderful for me to enter a JV franchise. You see, I own a little coffee shop and art gallery in the outskirts of PV.

... Coffee is my passion going hand in hand with aviaton !!!

Best regards

P.S. Didn´t mean to hijack this thread. Apologies all around !!!



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7584 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 12):
Guadalajara would be neat, but I don't think Lufthsansa has anything to do there!

Agree. I am sure MTY would see LH service before GDL.

I think that if LH decides to expand in Mexico, first they will add additional, seasonal FRA-MEX flights (like the extra summer flights they had in summer 2004 and 2005); then, perhaps they will swap all-744 service to MEX for all-A388 service to MEX 7x weekly; the next step would be, if we are lucky, to start MUC-MEX flights. After all the foregoing has happened (if it ever happens), then and only then MTY could become a possibility.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):
LH will work down its list of priority destinations (money making ones) and soon we should see a Latin American city or 2 that would make the cut. In order of importance I would see Rio being returned to the network, followed by Bogota or Guadalajara. Buenos Aires served by its own dedicated flight would be also up there, then Lima.

I agree that GIG tops the list of LH/LX's future destinations in the region, followed by EZE dedicated flights, which would entail a further growth of GRU. RG's GIG-FRA B772 was RG no. 2 or 3 most profitable route before the airline went burst.

Needless to mention, GRU is top priority for LH in the region, and will continue to be important with LX already announced expansion of ZRH-GRU increased from 5 to 6 weekly, and the objective is to have LX landing daily in GRU.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
That is so true, and as far as I know some of the guys over there, they are the absolute champions at running the numbers and then deciding on how to optimally invest scarce available resources. Just look at how CPT had to go last summer for the sake of extra PVG service. No scrupules at all there, and that is really the way things should be. Economics should drive network development, not misplaced national pride or prestige. There's quite some airlines here and there that could learn a thing or two from Lufthansa in this respect.

I agree with your statement. However, priorities also dictate an airline business and it is common sense to affirm that LH focus is on the Asian region. Just look at AF expansion in the region: GRU, MEX, EZE, SCL, as compared to LH. Clearly AF has a different eye in the region, and still keeps very profitable operations making money in every single flight to Latin America.

In my opinion AF had a better strategy for Latin America. LH/LX did many things wrong in Latin America and couldnt get it right. One thing is to make money, the other is to have the right business strategy for a region.

Rgs,

[Edited 2006-11-23 10:25:30]

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3087 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
However, priorities also dictate an airline business and it is common sense to affirm that LH focus is on the Asian region. Just look at AF expansion in the region: GRU, MEX, EZE, SCL, as compared to LH.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
In my opinion AF had a better strategy for Latin America.

Agreed. Lufthansa is probably taking a too cerebral attitude towards running its business by strictly looking at the performance numbers of each of its routes. I believe that they have neglected South America in the process without quantifying what it could potentially cost them because of the perception that LH is not as global an airline as for instance AF/KL is.

Aspects like the necessity to offer global connections are much more difficult to quantify than route performance details and LH's focus has likely swung too far toward taxing routes based on their individual performance than on the global picture of building and reinforcing the network and hub and spoke system.

As such, I agree that Rio is a black hole on the LH route map that should be filled as soon as possible before others have taken up the entire market there, if such hasn't happened already. LH/LX is also losing out big time against AF/KL in Argentina and Chile, where the latter is offering nonstop service. I do however not believe that LH will return to Peru and Colombia in the short term. The yields an airline like LH is looking for are just not there, no matter what the potential in absolute number of passengers may be.

Finally, let's also not forget that the demise of RG has dealt a serious blow to Lufthansa's strategy for the region. LH was relying heavily on regional connection with RG, which now are all of a sudden no longer available. The void left by RG is not so easy to fill and it will take time for the airline to cater for a new strategy.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3067 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 17):
As such, I agree that Rio is a black hole on the LH route map that should be filled as soon as possible before others have taken up the entire market there, if such hasn't happened already

The market is still open HB-IWC, and in need of flights to Germany as well as Europe. Also is a very rare case of available frequencies (LH can even run a daily flight if ANAC understands FRA-SSA weekly service it's just an additional flight).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
I agree that GIG tops the list of LH/LX's future destinations in the region, followed by EZE dedicated flights, which would entail a further growth of GRU. RG's GIG-FRA B772 was RG no. 2 or 3 most profitable route before the airline went burst

Agree 100%

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 17):
Finally, let's also not forget that the demise of RG has dealt a serious blow to Lufthansa's strategy for the region. LH was relying heavily on regional connection with RG, which now are all of a sudden no longer available. The void left by RG is not so easy to fill and it will take time for the airline to cater for a new strategy.

Agree with all which you stated above. In this overall picture of the region, however, we must not forget MEX which continue an important market for LH, especially if the current LH-MX partnership is kept. MEX would certainly be a candidate-destination for MUC nonstop flights in the future.

Another point is that in general Star does not seem to take the region seriously, and for that just look at UA's persence in the region and its Brazilian operations vis-a-vis AA or DL. I have been a long advocate for IAD-GIG nonstop, instead of the dual IAD-GRU. In 2005 UA had to cope with DL ATL-GIG unders its nose in what was RG's second hub...

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 17):
Finally, let's also not forget that the demise of RG has dealt a serious blow to Lufthansa's strategy for the region. LH was relying heavily on regional connection with RG, which now are all of a sudden no longer available. The void left by RG is not so easy to fill and it will take time for the airline to cater for a new strategy.

RG's demise only made things worst for LH. Anyway LH never capitalised too much on RG operations, and this proofed to be one of the few right decisions of LH in the region (LH could have well relegated EZE and SCL for RG connections in the past).

The least I would expect from LH in the current scenario is a return of GIG in 2007, but I dont know how the airline will configurate its already complicated (or confused?) GRU mini-hub operations, which keep changing every year and it seems LH never gets it right...But to be honest, if LH really wants to be a player in GIG it needs to operate nonstop, nothing less.

Rgs,


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 19):
The least I would expect from LH in the current scenario is a return of GIG in 2007

I would have expected that to happen already right now. The peak season is coming up and LH passengers are left without any option to fly to GIG on their airline. Meanwhile, JJ is starting nonstop GIG-Europe operations and Air France or KLM are likely next to add nonstop service to Rio. If LH keeps on hesitating on GIG, the ship might have sailed by the time they come with a solution.


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