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Why Not Many BA To S. America  
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7909 times:

Why doesn't BA fly to places like ... Caracas, Bogota, Santiago, Lima, Montevideo
It seems they only fly to EZE, and Brazil.

Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?
I would expect an airline like BA would try to offer better flights to S America and direct nonstop for the English.

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkidMarque From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7905 times:

BA, LAN, Iberia, all part of OneWorld. BA don't need to cover these places themselves.


DUCK !
User currently offlineChalliday From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7907 times:

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?

and LAN


User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7902 times:

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?
I would expect an airline like BA would try to offer better flights to S America and direct nonstop for the English.

It is very probable that BA respect their One World partner and direct all BA passengers via Madrid with IB to South America. Probably that's the way they might be doing fine as they really haven't mentioned anything about expansion in Latin America, specially South America. Or I don't believe is worth that BA sends their own metal to those destinations.

South America is a big whole in their network given the world network they have.


Cheers!



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently onlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5091 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7836 times:

No need for BA to fly to South America themselves with AA ; Lan and Iberia all strong in the region.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7811 times:

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Why doesn't BA fly to places like ... Caracas, Bogota

They used to fly to both CCS and Bog until aprox. 3 years ago. I just hope they come back since the COL market to Europe has been increasing during these years of absence.



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7805 times:

BA will increase LHR-GRU from daily B747 to 10 x week B747 starting 1 December 2006. IB already runs double daily MAD-GRU.

Rgs,


User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7786 times:

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is it becuase they are leaving it to IB?

BTW I really don´t understand why IB serves BOG with A340-300 and smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7641 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

Quite surprisingly (at least to me) I can find only five South American destinations on BA's electronic timetable.

Three of the destinations - GIG, GRU and EZE - it serves itself with 744s.

It also lists SCL with a code share LAN A320 connecting flight at EZE.

The fifth destination listed is LIM. This connects a BA 744 flight at MIA with an AA A300 flight on the MIA-LIM leg.

Again quite surprisingly to both me and, no doubt from some of the replies above, others, they do not list any flights via MAD with IB flying the second leg.


User currently offlineChalliday From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7694 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
they do not list any flights via MAD with IB flying the second leg.

We do, according to our Route Map on the ba.com site. Lima is listed as being via MAD

Perhaps our new route map on our oneworld site helps explain things a bit better.

OneWorld Route Map

[Edited 2006-11-23 17:05:36]

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7641 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7668 times:

Quoting Challiday (Reply 9):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
they do not list any flights via MAD with IB flying the second leg.

We do, according to our Route Map on the ba.com site. Lima is listed as being via MAD

Sorry. You misunderstood me. I checked the BA ELECTRONIC ON-LINE TIMETABLE for every day from today until next Wednesday. No, repeat no flight is listed to LIM via MAD. Everyday a connection with AA code share flight BA5037 at MIA is listed. Guess you need either to change your map or get an IB flight added to your timetable.


User currently offlineChalliday From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7634 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
Guess you need either to change your map or get an IB flight added to your timetable.

Sorry about that mate, I got my wires crossed.

Your very right, we've been spending so much time on getting the site to launch that we have delayed on updating things such as the route map and timetable.

However all that being said, when routing through OneWorld partners BA will always try and route you through AA before any other member where and when it can do so effectively.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
Three of the destinations - GIG, GRU and EZE - it serves itself with 744s.

GRU is the only nonstop destination.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJycarlisle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7598 times:

Quoting GBOAG (Reply 1):
BA, LAN, Iberia, all part of OneWorld. BA don't need to cover these places themselves.

Do British tourists also frequent other places than S. America?

Cheers,
Jeremy


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7539 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
Quite surprisingly (at least to me) I can find only five South American destinations on BA's electronic timetable.

Also to me ! It's a shame Rio and Buenos Aires among others doesn't keep a non-stop service to London.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
BA will increase LHR-GRU from daily B747 to 10 x week B747 starting 1 December 2006. IB already runs double daily MAD-GRU.

BA additional flights are seasonal and will run only till March 20, 2007. Virgin Atlantic holds the 7 unused frequencies and BA get the extra flights because VS postpone their flights UK-Brazil.

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Why doesn't BA fly to places like ... Caracas, Bogota, Santiago, Lima, Montevideo
It seems they only fly to EZE, and Brazil.

Even some places in Brazil and EZE are very bad served. LH and BA seems to keep the same idea about South America.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7526 times:

Quoting Bongo (Reply 7):
smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?

because to BOG you have other choices. Avianca, Air France for example. however apart from IB we can only chose between Martinair(and the hell transit in the US) or Air Madrid so one sees very quickly what the best choice is. Hence many people fly with IB. However I'm sure both AV and AF are better than IB hence why they fly smaller A/c to BOG since less people want to fly IB



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

Quoting Bongo (Reply 5):
They used to fly to both CCS and Bog until aprox. 3 years ago.

The route was actually only withdrawn on February 6th, 2005, due to very poor yields. BA really did try with this route though - it was flown with a 744 ex LGW, then moved to LHR, downgraded to a 777, but still didn't make money, then it was tried with a 767-300ER, but still didn't make enough money. That's when the route was suspended. Quite sad really, after many years of BA service to both Venezuela and Colombia.


User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
No, repeat no flight is listed to LIM via MAD. Everyday a connection with AA code share flight BA5037 at MIA is listed.

Utter rubbish. I have flown to Lima from London and back seven times since June, twice on the American code share and twice on the IB code share. It's BA7233/IB6650.

FWIW, going on LAN through New York is much better than either of these options.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2563 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

Quoting Bongo (Reply 5):
They used to fly to both CCS and Bog until aprox. 3 years ago. I just hope they come back since the COL market to Europe has been increasing during these years of absence.



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 16):
The route was actually only withdrawn on February 6th, 2005, due to very poor yields. BA really did try with this route though - it was flown with a 744 ex LGW, then moved to LHR, downgraded to a 777, but still didn't make money, then it was tried with a 767-300ER, but still didn't make enough money. That's when the route was suspended. Quite sad really, after many years of BA service to both Venezuela and Colombia.

Is it so tht they lost money? I can buy the low yields -or lower than they would have for Asia for instance, but actually losing money?

Since BA left the route, the Europe- South America market has grown a lot. I am sure that they would do fine. Still, since BA are so conservative, I hope that Virgin -a much more vibrant airline- will take advantage of the gap and start southamerican routes. They should realise that this region has the best prospects for aviation growth.


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7400 times:

Quoting Bongo (Reply 7):
BTW I really don´t understand why IB serves BOG with A340-300 and smaller markets such as LIM and SJO with A340-600, does anybody have any idea?

BOG is not always served by A340-300, I've seen A340-600 lots of times there, in fact, a german friend came to MDE from Munich via MAD and BOG and he flew the A340-600 in the MAD - BOG flight, he even got me a safety card.



I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7314 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 18):
Is it so tht they lost money? I can buy the low yields -or lower than they would have for Asia for instance, but actually losing money?

Yes, it actually lost money. Gone are the days when BA flew routes just for the prestige of it. If the return on investment isn't there, then pull the route and assign the aircraft to something more profitable.

Funnily enough, I also flew on this service LGW-BOG-LGW back in 1999. It was on the 747-400, and was so full, I got bumped up to a very pleasant 60A in Club World on the upper deck on the return BOG-(CCS)-LGW! Problem was, it was full in economy, but very light at the premium-end of the aircraft. Sad really.

Does anyone know why AV also pulled their BOG-LHR non-stop? I flew that route twice on the 767-300ER and it was quite a nice service. I even recall eating a really tasty chicken korma and basmati rice, courtesy of SAS Catering at LHR. Quite an odd catering choice for a South American airline though....


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7313 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7297 times:
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AA owns S. America and they are codeshares with OneWorld.

I'm sure this has been stated above a few times...



I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7297 times:

I think BA will return to several latin american markets in the future.

As an airline, it is hugely important that BA itself has a worldwide network. Thats the reason why we still fly twice daily to SYD where our Oneworld alliance partner QF is based. Or, thrice daily to HKG where our Oneworld partner CX is based. The simple reason being that BA would rather the money go into it's own pocket than that of one of its partners. And also quite simply, many of BA's passengers want to fly BA and not a partner airline.

Alliane partners are still competitors when they fly on the same route. Where it can help it, BA would rather see a BA pasenger on a BA bird to OZ than a QF bird. Especially the Business market. BA doesn't want to sell one of their own passengers a seat on, for example, QF if it can avoid doing so. That passenger may then get a tate for QF (or CX or AA) and decide to use them on other routes where they would normally choose BA.

The economy in many of the Lat Am countries has really picked up over the last couple years and I think BA is eyeing many markets down there.

But the main problem we have is a lack of spare longhaul aircraft. To start a route to somewhere in Lat Am it would basically mean cancelling or reducing capacity on an existing route. Probably not a risk BA is likely to take until it receives some new planes.


User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7231 times:

BA has indeed handed over much of its Latin American flying to its partners IB and AA. One destination which has not been so lucky, though, is GEO, Gerogetown in Guyana. Guyana was the only mainland South American territory of Britain until independence in 1966. BA used to fly there with 747s as a tag onto the LHR - ANU - BGI - POS services - the Jumbos must have been load-restricted due to the relatively short runways at GEO. I remember seeing the 747 there in 1978 - when I was very young! These flights ended in 1985. Guyana is thus left without services to its former mother country unlike neighbouring Suriname, which retains KL services to AMS and French Guiana, which is after all still part of France and has daily AF services to ORY.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25696 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 23):
BA has indeed handed over much of its Latin American flying to its partners IB and AA.

BA also owns 10% of IB. They just bought AA's 1% stake in IB. Following from current issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology:

British Airways has bought American Airlines' remaining 1% share in Spanish flag carrier Iberia for £13 million ($24.6 million). This takes BA's stake to 10%.


25 Post contains links and images 757MDE : I think it had to do with their financial situation at the time. Now that BA has gone that route could do good for AV, in fact I think they're workin
26 VV701 : You may think it utter rubbish. But it is true. Why not check it for yourself before pontificating? I repeat: That is to say I checked flights on the
27 Tomascubero : As correctly stated by Rootsair, BOG and LIM have better choices to ge to Europe but believe it or not, all IB's flights to SJO are more or less pack
28 2travel2know : That's surely a Southamerican destination that BA OneWorld partner IB won't be flying to. Strange they've not returned there and now the only decent
29 Richcandy : Hi BA appear to do very well on their LHR-GRU//GIG//EZE services. They are not regularly included in special offer sales. Maybe it’s a bit like LOS.
30 StarGoldLHR : BA is shy of competition. If they cannot make a route work, they pull it rather than fight for it. Thats why they continue to shrink whilst the others
31 Hardiwv : BA is interested in the high-yielding segment. US flights fill the premium front seats. That's why BA only operates GRU nonstop in South America, and
32 LipeGIG : Agree with you, and i doubt VS could begin the flight during the first 9 months of 2007. BA could run a flight LHR-GIG-EZE, improving both markets an
33 Steve6666 : Actually mate I did. Found the Madrid connection no problem. I repeat, I have been on the Iberia code share between Lima and Madrid twice in the last
34 Hardiwv : Agree. BA could then keep LHR-GRU daily dedicated B747 and operate LHR-GIG-EZE B747 3/4 weekly, and therefore pre-empt any chance of VS taking a slic
35 Bogota : I am still to meet any BA frequent flier that would switch to IB on its way to Europe as to stay on oneworld. Both American Airlines and their old and
36 BAStew : BA is not shrinking at all. There is a huge difference between competing on a route you know you can make money from versus flogging a dead horse. Wi
37 Par13del : TrintoCan in reply 23 listed what I think is the main issue with BA serving the Latin America market. Guyana and Belize are really the only two coloni
38 Pacifique75 : Regarding flights to Rio being routed LHR-GIG-EZE, maybe it would be somehow complex for crewing...I am just guessing, as a friend of mine who flies f
39 BAStew : Thats right, on the LHR - GRU - LHR flights and GRU - GIG - GRU flights we get GRU based crew. Typically 3 on the GRU - GIG - GRU flights. 3 on the G
40 Hardiwv : It would be interesting to get precise loads information of BA in GIG and EZE, however, all this crew rotation must be very expensive, and it shows t
41 Pacifique75 : BAStew, thanks for the interesting info ref crew rotation on the BA brazilian trips! My friend used to be on the longhaul fleet but has now transferre
42 Post contains images BAStew : Flights London - sao paulo - london tend to be pretty much constantly full. We have local traffic rights GRU - EZE - GRU, so those flights tend to be
43 Hardiwv : Correct, however, the leg GRU-GIG operates 3 x week and not 2 x week. EZE-GRU operates 4 x week. You can expect less pax on EZE-GRU since capacity GR
44 2travel2know : If LHR-GRU is so profitable, why then BA doesn't fly LGW-GIG-EZE instead of having those GRU-GIG and GRU-EZE tag-ons? As of why LGW-GIG-EZE and not L
45 Pacifique75 : It will be interesting to see if BA load factors will be, in any way, affected by TAMs debut in the UK market. Besides, I heard in S.Paulo last week w
46 Dellatorre : I think people in this forum are forgetting just one thing. Apart from JJ & RG which is set to resume services next year, NO other South American airl
47 Richcandy : Hi We were told by a RG rep at World Travel Market that RG would restart their London flights in November. There are only a few days left in November
48 Dellatorre : You still believe in what they say??!!
49 Hardiwv : Agree with your statements. LGW-GIG-EZE would make more sense indeed. No doubt GRU deserves LHR service. Agree 100%. But I do think TAM has to revamp
50 LipeGIG : Not only on World Traveller, BA Brazil says that on the GIG days, most of premium seats are sold to Rio! Varig announce today they will resume servic
51 Hardiwv : The info does not match, sorry Lipe. There is no doubt that by and large GRU captures the largest share of premium seats, so much that the extra 3 we
52 LipeGIG : Hardi, i'm sorry but i heard this from a BA Director and when i asked about... and if VS begin GIG-LON ? Her face changed! You can see this at Contat
53 2travel2know : A Venezuelan airline flying CCS-London? If BW (or whatever comes after their namechange) is to return to CCS and to offer great connections @ POS, I
54 Hardiwv : Lipe: I think we agreed. GIG (and EZE) are important markets for BA, and they do generate profits for the airline, otherwise BA would not be keeping
55 Planemanofnz : Maybe BA could start operating non stops to Rio or EZE now that from next year LHR-SIN-SYD will be downgraded from 747 to 777? Or is this 747 going el
56 BAStew : Three times per week it will be going to GRU
57 Post contains images RICARIZA : In fact, on a recent interview, AV's President says that they are working on returning to LON on the first quarter of 2007. You are right:
58 Hardiwv : I thought the extra 3 weekly flights to GRU would come from the reduction of LHR-MIA B747. Could anyone confirm? As of 1 December LHR-GRU will be 10
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