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What Happened To Delta Flight 3839 On 11/21/06  
User currently offlineFreakfor747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8902 times:

Sorry i couldn't post this earlier but this was the first time i saw a computer in 2 days. anyway i was on OO flight 3839 on Tuesday from SLC to BZN and i had the sacristy experience on airplane i have ever had. It started off when we left the E concourse at SLC. the pilot taxied the plane a such a fast speed that i thought we were going to take off on the taxiway. the pilot made no announcements that we were going to take off and the flight attendant looked surprised too. Well, we then lifted up into the beautiful Utah sky and were on are way to BZN. that part of the flight was a little rough but nothing too bad. I then drifted to sleep only to be woken up 45 min later with the flight attendant saying we have started are approach into BZN. He (the flight attendant) said that we had about 5 min until we need to be seated. the 2 min later with people up and about the plane drooped. we lost 1000 feet in less than 5 sec went back up 200 and back down again. the plane felt as if it were going to flip over. i heard people prying, crying, and, calling loved ones on their cell phone. i looked out the window to see if anything was wrong with the wing but everything looked ok. some people threw up and others got cuts from hitting the roof and the person next to them. immediately the pilot floored the jets. i have never felt the speed of a plane like that before. then for the remanding 15 min nothing was said in the cabin. the pilot did not say a word (he did not the whole flight) the flight attendant told us to go in brace position and we looked like we were skimming trees. we ended up coming in very fast and touched the ground like a meteor falling from the sky. i saw people run off the plane but i was the last one off because i wanted to talk to the pilot. the pilot stayed in the cockpit until i was on the jetway. i then saw the copilot come out and i asked him what happened. he then blocked the cockpit door and acted very, very fidgety. he was stuttering when he avoided my question and seamed very scared. the only thing he told me was that we lost 1000 ft and went up and down 200ft several times.

so what happened? What the co-piolt told me left me puzzled and he reaction to the event even left me even more puzzled. i know that you great a.netters know the answer so please help me solve this mystery.

thanks,
ben

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN353SK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8855 times:

Hmm, it doesn't seem that abnormal besides the behavior of the pilots, my only idea is that maybe the captain made the FO go out there and take all the blame?

User currently offlineBoston92 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8819 times:

Quoting N353SK (Reply 1):
Hmm, it doesn't seem that abnormal besides the behavior of the pilots

How often does this happen?? This does not seem normal to me. I fly a lot and this has never happened to me.

If you had to guess, what are the chances of a plane dropping like that out of the sky?


User currently offlineTG992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8783 times:

I'll put my speculation hat on and speculate that your flight hit moderate to severe clear air turbulence, which can strike, I believe, without warning.

Sounds to me like the flight attendant, in the absence of instructions from the flight deck, took the cautious approach of having you adopt the brace position. If this is the case and I was him, I'd be rather angry with the flight deck for not giving him any information - a quick word either over the PA or the interphone could have eased everyone's fear in a matter of seconds.

Again, this is pure speculation and should not be interpreted as criticism of the crew, as I wasn't there and don't have all the facts.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 3):
If this is the case and I was him, I'd be rather angry with the flight deck for not giving him any information - a quick word either over the PA or the interphone could have eased everyone's fear in a matter of seconds.

As far as I know CAT isn't detected by the weather radar. So there is a chance it was not picked up by the flight crew.

You do hear stories about incidents like this, I can recall a few posted on ANET in the last year or so.

Still, none of us knew what was going on in the flight deck so we won't know for sure


User currently offlineTG992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8634 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 4):
As far as I know CAT isn't detected by the weather radar. So there is a chance it was not picked up by the flight crew.

Which is what I said -

Quoting TG992 (Reply 3):
which can strike, I believe, without warning.

I was referring to the flight crew apparently failing to give any information to the cabin crew or passengers AFTER the event, which, assuming there was no mechanical emergency, is pretty bad CRM.


User currently offlineFLIGHTDECK787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8607 times:

It seems very odd to me that there is nothing posted in regards to passengers being attended to upon arrival if there were cutts (injuries).

User currently offlineZKSUJ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8588 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 5):
I was referring to the flight crew apparently failing to give any information to the cabin crew or passengers AFTER the event, which, assuming there was no mechanical emergency, is pretty bad CRM.

Ahh sorry. Misread the statement.


User currently offlineFanoftristars From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8568 times:

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
i heard people prying, crying, and, calling loved ones on their cell phone

How did they make calls on initial descent?


User currently offlineDispatchguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

Without knowing the facts, I would say CAT. SLC-BZN goes over some well-known clear air turbulence mountain ranges. The reason the captain probably stayed in the flight deck was to call the company and figure out how he was going to write up the airplane in the logbook for requiring a severe turbulence inspection, and to gather his own thoughts for the irregularity report.

Yeah, not even making an after-event call to the pax cabin probably wasnt the best move, but, depending on flight time remaining, I'm sure the crew had their hands full - especially if they were already talking to the company about determining flyability of the airplane.


User currently offlineBAe146QT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8462 times:

Quote:
Yeah, not even making an after-event call to the pax cabin probably wasnt the best move, but, depending on flight time remaining, I'm sure the crew had their hands full -

Aviate, navigate, communicate. In that order.

Sounds like this happened during or just prior to descent. From the OP's description*, it sounds like the landing was pretty hairy as well. So I'd agree that they probably had enough to worry about without getting on the horn to the cargo.



*Which may be coloured by emotion, of course.


User currently offlineJBird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8373 times:

As a professional pilot, I find the lack of communication both appalling and embarrassing. With very few exceptions, there is time to talk to and reassure the passengers. In fact, as a professional pilot, I am not just flying the plane, I am managing the situation. Part of managing the situation is keeping the flight attendant(s) and passengers in the loop. Unfortunately, at the regional level we are getting a lot of kids that don't have the experience and professionalism to understand that they have a bigger role. I have had several very serious emergencies and I have always found the time to calm and reassure the passengers.

I hope you have a better experience with your next flight.


User currently offlineS5FA170 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 8244 times:

Quoting JBird (Reply 11):
I have had several very serious emergencies and I have always found the time to calm and reassure the passengers.

Great to hear! I've had emergencies where the cockpit crew has refused to communicate with even us, the flight attendants, because they were "busy flying the airplane." I'm sorry. But after circling SAT for two hours, you should have been able to at least find a minute or two to talk to me and tell me whats going on!

As for what happened yesterday, it does sound like CAT, and while upon hindsight, the decision of the FA to have you adopt your brace positions probably only heightened the sensation of fear and nervousness, it was smart without any updates from the cockpit.

Just another day at the office for us!


User currently onlineGoldenshield From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

I'm going to call a    for a number of reasons here.

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
It started off when we left the E concourse at SLC. the pilot taxied the plane a such a fast speed that i thought we were going to take off on the taxiway. the pilot made no announcements that we were going to take off and the flight attendant looked surprised too.

1) The CRJ-200 sits close to the ground. When coupled with looking through the windows, the ground is your only reference of movement, and due to the low stature of the CRJ-200, it can look like you are taxiing too fast, but you really aren't.

2) The flight attendant is called before takeoff on EVERY flight. It's part of the checklist.

3) Your flight number is wrong (but close.)

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
some people threw up and others got cuts from hitting the roof and the person next to them.

After a situation such as this, the flight attendant would have gone around assessing the situation, and would have passed this along to the flight crew. Upon arrival, if there were any potentially serious injuries did exist, such as people hitting their head, there would have been medical personnel waiting for that plane to land.

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
we ended up coming in very fast and touched the ground like a meteor falling from the sky.

The CRJ-200 window effect.

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
he then blocked the cockpit door and acted very, very fidgety. he was stuttering when he avoided my question and seamed very scared.

He may have been in training still. Give the kid a break.

[Edited 2006-11-24 19:23:50]

User currently offlineOsiris30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8092 times:

Write them and ask the airline. The behaviour and description of the entire event sounds extremely overblown to me and my BS meter is running high.

User currently offlineClickhappy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8086 times:
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i heard people prying, crying, and, calling loved ones on their cell phone

People were flalling about, but also making calls on their cells, while the plane was still in flight?


User currently offlineN353SK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8040 times:

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
we lost 1000 feet in less than 5 sec went back up 200 and back down again. the plane felt as if it were going to flip over.

I don't mean to try and discredit you, but how do you know this?


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

Quoting Freakfor747 (Thread starter):
we lost 1000 feet in less than 5 sec went back up 200 and back down again.



Quoting N353SK (Reply 16):
I don't mean to try and discredit you, but how do you know this?

I had sorta wondered about that myself. Unless OO has altimeters installed in the seatbacks, how could somebody tell?

The CAT notwithstanding, it sounds like some emotionally-driven embellishment....


User currently offlineBAe146QT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7982 times:

Quoting N353SK (Reply 16):
I don't mean to try and discredit you, but how do you know this?

At the bottom of the OP, he claims the SO told him this.

I think that this;

Quote:
*Which may be coloured by emotion, of course.

..is a big part of it. The mind can do strange things, not least of which is to exaggerate.

Or perhaps the OP has a thing about Delta? Or D-9s? Who can say? We weren't there.


User currently offlineBoston92 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 7756 times:

With CAT, a 10-20 foot drop may seem like a 500-1000 foot drop.

This is just one more reason why a don't like using the in-flight lavs, especially on lighter a/c like the CRJ200.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 19):
This is just one more reason why a don't like using the in-flight lavs, especially on lighter a/c like the CRJ200.

A lav is a lav. You'd be just as uneasy in a bigger aircraft's lav, too. Size matters not in CAT.


User currently offlineBatonOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 7618 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 14):
The behaviour and description of the entire event sounds extremely overblown to me and my BS meter is running high.

I agree. The story seems a little odd to me.


User currently offlineATLAaron From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 7607 times:
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Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 15):
People were flalling about, but also making calls on their cells, while the plane was still in flight?

Story does sound a bit emotional, but I have witnessed people making calls on initial descent. I'm certainly guily of listening to voicemail or answering emails on the blackberry on initial descent.


User currently offlineNkops From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 7601 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 14):
The behaviour and description of the entire event sounds extremely overblown to me and my BS meter is running high.

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