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FI:Launch Of A350XWB Program Delayed.  
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10772 times:

The industrial launch of the A350XWB program has been delayed due to funding concerns amongst EADS shareholders:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+shareholder+funding+concerns.html


336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
103 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10767 times:

Yawn... C'mon Airbus, when is something going to be on time?

Think that when they are going to delay it even more, the A330 line must stay open for a long time, simply because the 787 can't handle the request for the segment it serves....


User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10748 times:

I only think that it is a matter of time before they launch the aircraft. It will take further implementation and "marketing" of the power8 to convince some of the investors to send in the checks but once airbus is firmly on that road the money will come .

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10650 times:

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 2):
I only think that it is a matter of time before they launch the aircraft.

I disagree.. there will come a time when it's not worth it and better to move onto the 320 replacement. At this point I would like to re-iterate my call to re-engine the 330, tweak it some and move on... the ship has sailed and will soon be but a dot on the horizon.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10582 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 3):
Quoting Bringiton (Reply 2):
I only think that it is a matter of time before they launch the aircraft.

I disagree..

I agree. Or maybe I disagree? Or maybe we can all three agree that it's 'a matter of time', but no-one (not even EADS) knows how MUCH bloody time?  Smile

This has gone beyond the realms of mere business. Not sure whether it's becoming some sort of Greek tragedy, or just a new form of modern situation-comedy.......



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10570 times:

Quote:
This is in part due to France’s reluctance to provide the project with repayable finance, which could further aggravate the ongoing US dispute over launch aid. France and Germany are also awaiting guarantees on Airbus’ turnaround plan, says the report.

I had thought that EADS said last year (Forgeard or Leahy?) they didn't need RLI, subsidies, aid, whatever, to launch this project? Obviously, it's on the table. I remember a past post by Zvezda where he opined that RLI removes .5% of the risk premium from the project. Even on a third of the project (E10 billion) that could be a considerable sum over 17 years (RLI payback period IIRC). But wouldn't it be a small price to pay for peace on this issue? I'm sure the U.S. side would be willing to meet somewhere near the middle. The last thing either party wants here is to have this case heard by the WTO. Also, there could be a spillover into other areas, like agriculture (gasp!). Other articles I've read said that EADS was considering "ad hoc" solutions for this project, such as lining up a consortium of investors from Russia, China, Dubai, and the U.S. This would neatly skirt the WTO controversy and provide sufficient capital to proceed with the project--which is an absolute must for EADS IMO.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10502 times:

What will be the position of airliners that have ordered the A350x?

The "firm" orders that A received are still firm? Or where they firm LOIs  Smile

What is A doing for companies like TAM that ordered it before the spec was changed, then canceled, then re-unluanched?

This is the strangest news yet, another Soviet Failed Five Year Plan, rewritten every 2 years.

I think they may delay to launch either the new A320, or it's replacement. B will probably make a move there next. How much longer can AA fly their Mad Dogs for? I don't think they want to replace them with a near end of design life 737s. (?)



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineOU812 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10466 times:

This is further vindication that Airbus is still feeling the after shocks of Boeing's 787 program . EADS Co-Chief Executive Louis Gallois was quoted as saying that Airbus/eads would not go forward with the XWB-A350 unless they felt they had a competitive a/c to produce . It is obvious people within airbus do not have the confidence to go forward with A350 at this time .

Boeing's 787 program is obviously far more advanced than what it's counterpart can produce . Question is how far ahead is it ? That I can't answer . However , while Airbus is stuck at the starting line fiddling with their running shoes . Boeing is absolutely running away in this market .

Where was this conservative thinking when the A380 program was being considered ?

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...13&WTModLoc=BusArt-C1-ArticlePage2

EADS board split over new plane funding - source

Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:14 AM GMT

Disagreement over the funding of a $10 billion (5.2 billion pounds) new plane project at planemaker Airbus forced parent firm EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) to cancel a Friday board meeting which had been expected to address the matter, an industry source said on Friday.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10462 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
I had thought that EADS said last year (Forgeard or Leahy?) they didn't need RLI,

That was last year friend..given their recent financial debacle, I think it probably feels a lifetime go for EADS..... spin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12468 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10341 times:
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Quoting OU812 (Reply 7):
It is obvious people within airbus do not have the confidence to go forward with A350 at this time .

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion from the quoted article. The delay is by EADS not Airbus. Airbus has presented their case and are waiting for EADS go-ahead.

Mr Leahy seems to be very keen to get out there and start selling the plane.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
I had thought that EADS said last year (Forgeard or Leahy?) they didn't need RLI, subsidies, aid, whatever, to launch this project?

They did say the A350 could be funded internally. But that was last year.

As per the article, on the cause of the delay...

Quote:
This is in part due to France’s reluctance to provide the project with repayable finance



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10284 times:

The last phantom "industrial launch" of the A350 (October 2005) was preceded by similar eleventh-hour haggling over whatnot, why should this iteration of industrial launch be any different? Perhaps they'll be better organized for future industrial launches of the A350?  Smile

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10084 times:

Well I think this just goes to prove something I've been saying for a while now: the real problem for Airbus with regards to the 380 delays is the damage it's doing to confidence; both customer and investor.

I have no doubt the reason the project is again delayed is due to lack of funding and not technical in nature.

Airbus has dug themselves a very large hole (approximately the size of a 380... That's a big damned hole) financially.

Also, if there is any truth to the fact that the French government is hesitant to provide launch loans, I think that speaks volumes about their confidence in the long-term viability of EADS.

A few days ago I comment on death warrants and was scoffed at. I wonder what some of those people think now?

Airbus needs to re-engine and re-launch a modified 330. Spend about $2b on it. Take what market share they can get (I would guess 30% due to it being cheaper and more readily available than the 787 for the forseeable future).

They need to generate positive cash flow, or their 320 replacement will suffer and be out well after the 737 replacement (right now I'm figuring Airbus will EIS their 320 replacement 7 to 10 years after Boeing).

By the time Airbus is able to bring a 320 replacement to market, Boeing will have moved the bar (I believe Boeing will offer Y1 as two families, 5 and 6 abreast). Furthermore Boeing will likely be well on their way to Y3.

The worst part in all of this for Airbus is that if the 380 shows ANY strength, Boeing now has time to build a competitor, a CFRP one, that will destroy the 380. Don't think there isn't such a contingency plan at Boeing HQ.

(Please forgive any typos, etc. I am posting this from my mobile device)

[Edited 2006-11-24 16:08:53]


I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
This has gone beyond the realms of mere business. Not sure whether it's becoming some sort of Greek tragedy, or just a new form of modern situation-comedy.......

Or perhaps Hamlet or King Lear? I can see Leahy dressed in tights, carrying a model of the A380, walking on stage and saying "Alas, poor 380, I knew thee well." And later, of course, the famous "To be or not to be, 350, that is the question?"

We could probably make a good Broadway stage production as well, starring that globe-trotting song and dance man Joohnn Leaheee!

Yes, indeed, my friend, NAV20, it has gone well beyond mere business, it has become Shakespearean tragedy.

Perhaps some others might find appropriate Shakespearean quotes?

Richard III would be a good place to look, as would MacBeth.


User currently offlineBriguy1974 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9871 times:

No official word from Boeing but does the delays in the A350 xwb????? Make Boeing think more about a second line or is it simply a supplier issue? Anyone have any cold hard facts on this? Is there any facts???

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9830 times:

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 13):
No official word from Boeing but does the delays in the A350 xwb????? Make Boeing think more about a second line or is it simply a supplier issue? Anyone have any cold hard facts on this? Is there any facts???

Astuteman broke down the expected production requirement for the next 20 years for NB and WB aircraft the other day based on Boeing/Airbus predictions. Boeing has no need (based on their own numbers) to open a second line for the 787. Any gain would likely be very short-term in nature and may or maynot offset the costs of doing so.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them ramp production ASAP though.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30886 posts, RR: 87
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9790 times:
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First off, I admit to being surprised it was the French who don't want RLA, considering how many on this board have been firm in the convictions that the French have been strong-arming the German government to invest directly into RLA to get the A350XWB off the ground...

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
I remember a past post by Zvezda where he opined that RLI removes .5% of the risk premium from the project. Even on a third of the project (E10 billion) that could be a considerable sum over 17 years (RLI payback period IIRC). But wouldn't it be a small price to pay for peace on this issue? I'm sure the U.S. side would be willing to meet somewhere near the middle.

I tend to think not. The US position appears to be that in a truly "level" playing field, Boeing probably has a better position (especially now) to prosper then Airbus does. That is not to imply in any way that Airbus cannot or will not prosper, but chances are Boeing's risk-sharing and stronger financial position (in terms of order book value and production costs) would allow it to obtain financing on the open market at more favorable rates then Airbus and their lower production costs would improve their revenues/margins which would help them keep the pressure on Airbus with future programs.


User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

Quoting OU812 (Reply 7):
This is further vindication that Airbus is still feeling the after shocks of Boeing's 787 program . EADS Co-Chief Executive Louis Gallois was quoted as saying that Airbus/eads would not go forward with the XWB-A350 unless they felt they had a competitive a/c to produce . It is obvious people within airbus do not have the confidence to go forward with A350 at this time .

Boeing's 787 program is obviously far more advanced than what it's counterpart can produce . Question is how far ahead is it ? That I can't answer . However , while Airbus is stuck at the starting line fiddling with their running shoes . Boeing is absolutely running away in this market .

Your opinion is a sizeable leap from the article's assertion, which is that the lack of confidence has to do with *funding*, not the competitiveness of or the ability to produce the airplane.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9648 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 16):
Your opinion is a sizeable leap from the article's assertion, which is that the lack of confidence has to do with *funding*, not the competitiveness of or the ability to produce the airplane.

If investors do not feel Airbus' product will be competitive or that they cannot produce it on time, why would they risk billions of Euro's? It is all part of the same pie!!!


User currently offlineOU812 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9606 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 16):
Your opinion is a sizeable leap from the article's assertion, which is that the lack of confidence has to do with *funding*, not the competitiveness of or the ability to produce the airplane.

My thesis stems from the comment made by Gallois . This postponement gives me reason to speculate that Airbus/EADS/shareholders do not have the confidence nor revenue [while completing the A380] to commence with the Launch of a competitive A350 .

Also worth mentioning was the comments made by the Late Noel Forgeard some 12 months ago . Airbus is still not ready to react !


http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/061114/323/gris0.html

EADS to decide on official Airbus A350 launch by end November - Gallois

France, Gallois said the A350 project launch will depend on the success of the Power8 restructuring plan for Airbus.
'We cannot launch a programme if we are not certain of being competitive,' Gallois said.



http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ats+200-order+target+for+A350.html

Flight HomeSubscribeYou are in: Home › News Article
DATE:09/01/06
SOURCE:Flight International
Forgeard: Airbus beats 200-order target for A350

He said too that the price of fuel would be the main factor in determining how fast industry moves to developing an aircraft overwhelmingly built using composites. "If fuel is very expensive, you need an ultra-light aircraft, even if the cost of manufacture is higher," he said.

Airbus will spend €450 million ($540 million) in 2007-08 in developing composite technology. "Low cost industrial composites are the big challenge," he said.
"But we will be ready to react."


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9539 times:

Quoting OU812 (Reply 18):
My thesis stems from the comment made by Gallois . This postponement gives me reason to speculate that Airbus/EADS/shareholders do not have the confidence nor revenue [while completing the A380] to commence with the Launch of a competitive A350 .

Also worth mentioning was the comments made by the Late Noel Forgeard some 12 months ago . Airbus is still not ready to react !

US WTO case against the EU over airplanes should come to a conclusion next year. In addition to your comments, maybe EADS doesn't want the A350 funding on top of the A380, BAE and repayment of the A380 Government launch assistance (when the EU lose the case).

Cheers


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9467 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 12):
Perhaps some others might find appropriate Shakespearean quotes?

Ay me! for aught that ever I could read, could ever hear by tale or history, the course of [insert either "launch aid" or "industrial launch"] never did run smooth.  yes 


User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9215 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 12):
Perhaps some others might find appropriate Shakespearean quotes?

For future airline customers... to B or not to B, that is the question...!

SparkingWave ~~~



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineKYAir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9200 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 12):
Richard III would be a good place to look, as would MacBeth

Out damned 787, OUT!



Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12468 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9198 times:
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Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 19):
(when the EU lose the case)

I'm sure you meant to say if the EU loses the case. wink 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8930 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 11):
Airbus needs to re-engine and re-launch a modified 330. Spend about $2b on it. Take what market share they can get (I would guess 30% due to it being cheaper and more readily available than the 787 for the forseeable future).

At this point- I think you're right.

Orders are barely even trickling in for the A350, and while the rate of orders has slowed for Boeing's 787 as well, there is a gigantic backlog. The best thing Airbus can do right not IMHO is to get a revamped A330 that will come close, but probably couldn't match the 787's economics, and get it to the market by 2010 or before. Then they can go clean sheet on an A350 and A360 design, launching two platforms to deal with the 787 and 777.

This is just my opinion which agrees with Osiris30, so don't flame me too much!!!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
25 Poitin : To which we must add: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry." "On
26 BeechNut : This is becoming like the C series fiasco for Bombardier. BBD was asleep at the switch and ended up leaving a huge market segment to Embraer. Airbus a
27 Post contains images BoeingFever777 : G! And who didn't expect this? Wonder what QR, US, AY, TP, SQ, GECAS, and ILFC are going to do now? And for that matter... LH!
28 Coa747 : Is this plane ever going to be launched? To me it seems EADS is not convinced of the business case for the A350. If the board felt that the A350XWB wa
29 Bringiton : Yes!! I dont think you can make this conclusion given the information. If the XWB is indeed a CFRP fues then It should capture a very healthy share o
30 Shenzhen : I don't think there is any doubt that the EU will lose the case filed against them by the US, but this isn't saying that the US will win the EU coute
31 Post contains images Par13del : Airbus, in true revolutionary fashion, is taking orders away from Boeing B787 - which they readily admit to have under-estimated - by placing the A350
32 Art : Indeed. Neither Airbus nor Boeing make planes because it's their hobby. For that reason I also back a re-engined A330 with minimal (say
33 Elvis777 : Howdy Par13del, . The above two statements, from your post, contradict each other. Depends on who you ask. Lots of quotes , maybe a bit old, saying ot
34 AndesSMF : This is an interesting comparison. What would give airlines an incentive to wait 6 years for a competitor? The A350XWB could easily be a great airpla
35 Par13del : Elvis777 the revolutionary way is how they are taking orders away from Boeing. How many iterations has Boeing come up with for the B748, fas as I know
36 Osiris30 : I can't figure out if you're being cheeky or smoking crack. You really don't believe Airbus is doing what they are doing intentionally do you? And ho
37 Par13del : Well Osiris30 when I first thought of it I was being "cheeky" but some of the earlier responses have reminded me of some things that have gone on befo
38 AvObserver : They were going to do this with the original A350 but several influential customers spoke out loudly against it. That could have been part of a 2 pro
39 Post contains links Trex8 : seems the French refusal to provide RLI is because they want a bigger stake in EADS as a price http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...EADS-UPDATE-4.XM
40 Par13del : Trex8 that is the other shoe falling, the French have always stated publicy that they would support Airbus / EADS in the launch of the A350, so if as
41 Osiris30 : " target=_blank>http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...=qcna I predict this gets much uglier before it gets any better....
42 Trex8 : well if BAes portion can be divided up between the French, Germans and Spanish everyone should be happy!
43 Osiris30 : Ummm.. how is that fair to the private share holders.. it dilutes their equity and is potentially illegal. Not only that.. who says the French want t
44 ER757 : "A350 - wherefore art thou A350?" Well, the way the freighter version on the 748 is selling Boeing's money will have been well spent even if they NEV
45 Stitch : Could it be a blocking move by the French state to keep the Russians at bay? Or does France desire a larger stake - and perhaps an extra seat on the
46 Glideslope : You are a wise person. People in here have been blowing off my Russia wants EADS comments for the last 6 months. George Bush is no longer the largest
47 NAV20 : Par13del, I reckon that certainly takes this week's 'unbridled optimism' prize. Can't get rid of a picture in my head of a reporter ringing Airbus ab
48 Post contains images OU812 : The reporter should not forget to ask if the launch will be firm or a commitment ? Because all A350 launches to date have been commitments !
49 Fridgmus : I'm a little new here. I don't work in the Aviation Industry, I'm just an ex-Para who loves airplanes. Can anyone please explain the difference betwee
50 BoeingFever777 : extra-wide-body. Better to compete with the 773ER/787-9.
51 Brendows : In the fall of 2004, Airbus was designing a competitor to the 787, and in December that year, the board of EADS gave Airbus the authority to sell the
52 SSTsomeday : Airbus has not yet cleansed itself of the government intervention that makes it inefficient on a management level. They have to solve this problem. I
53 Fridgmus : Thank you BoeingFever777 and Brendows! Marc
54 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : Marc... Here is some more information..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350 Cheers..
55 Ken777 : I think that Airbus may be moving to a situation where they need to design the XWB so it will be competitive with the 787 in the 2014-2015 time frame.
56 FlyDreamliner : I think that airbus' giant blundering of the A350 has made the A330Lite a viable option all of a sudden.... funny how things come around. At this poin
57 Bringiton : Airbus is fully committed to the XWB and wont go back to the suped up A330 IMO , The Long developmental cycle for the A350 ( 7 years or near abouts) w
58 Coa747 : You can try to spin it however you want it but anyway you slice it the decision to delay the launch of the A350 again is not good. Whether the reason
59 Post contains links Jdevora : The delay could be only one week: Dispute among shareholders said delaying Airbus jet decision JD
60 Bongodog1964 : IMO this sums up the situation, France is an interventionist state, and has difficulty with the other partners who have over the last few years moved
61 Slz396 : I think you have a wrong idea of what an industrial launch really is about. An industrial launch is not about giving the green light to design a new
62 Rheinbote : Not anywhere near. I'd rather nominate the 747 'Stretch' alias 747-500/600 alias 747ADV alias 747-8I (don't recall the other designators, but there a
63 OU812 : Were any of the A350 orders part of last years sales totals ?
64 Post contains links Leelaw : Eighty-seven firm orders for the A350 were included in Airbus' order intake totals for 2005. http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...s+winsbut+rival+i
65 NAV20 : And thirteen 'old A350' orders taken in early 2006 appear in this year's claimed orders total. 'Old A350' orders from both years are still shown in Ai
66 Rainmaker : I think you overlooked one small but very important characteristic of the industrial launch: the permission to sign up w/ suppliers & risk sharing pa
67 Post contains images OU812 : " target=_blank>http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles....html Remarkable , Over 100 widebody orders for a plane that does not exist yet ! I see why Lea
68 NoWorries : Weren't most of these issues either designs that never made it into manufacture, or designs that experienced significant rework prior to the start of
69 LHStarAlliance : Maybe this is why LH gave them until July to present a the new 350...
70 MrComet : "A widebody. A widebody. My kingdom for a widebody." I agree. This is not a big setback although depending on how much additional information must be
71 Post contains images Rheinbote : No argue about that, it just ain't "the most convoluted...in history"
72 AvObserver : This is not quite comparable to the A350 redesigns because the 1996 747-500/600 and the 2000 747X/X-Stretch were different (and larger) designs than
73 BoomBoom : Did they book 100 FIRM orders for any of these, then pull the rug out from under the buyer?
74 Post contains images Rheinbote : I'm afraid that's without precedent
75 Atmx2000 : If by high costs you mean high manufacturing costs, I suppose this is a possible problem for an old design. But I have no idea whether that is the re
76 Osiris30 : I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and suggest you meant high prices? High costs implies it costs Boeing more to produce aircraft th
77 Post contains images SSTsomeday : Airbus was able to build a remarkably successful, technologically advanced 320, to compete with the pre-exisiting 737, although this situation is som
78 Atmx2000 : One can't fault Airbus for this, this was their first large, long haul aircraft. Boeing had a lot more influence with engine makers at the time being
79 Post contains images Rheinbote : I think the 'sudden death' of the A346 is much more of a headache for Airbus than the 787.
80 Mah584jr : Who's fault would it be then? The bottom line is that airbus isn't going away, despite some recent drawbacks. They need to do a better job of analyzi
81 Sphealey : > Over 100 widebody orders for a plane that > does not exist yet ! One point to keep in mind is that the major aircraft buyers (the airlines and the a
82 NoWorries : Oops -- after rereading my post I realized it could have been easily mistaken as yet another attempt to turn this into another A380 bash -- what I wa
83 BoeingBus : well, for one Boeing did not have Leahey in their sales team. The man can sell a dead horse to a race track. It's not mentioned much on here but the
84 AvObserver : ala Singapore, who ordered an equal number of 787s and A350s or Emirates, who at various times orders huge numbers of Airbuses AND/OR Boeings, among
85 OU812 : Another difference worth mentioning is : Airbus [with its current multi-gov. cash assistance policy] can be wrong & still be rewarded for flops like
86 Trex8 : A340 flop??? maybe the A345/6 but since the A342/3 is an integral part of the A332/3 program, I suspect they have if not will be paying beaucoup roya
87 SSTsomeday : That's interesting. So you are saying that, at the time, only Boeing would have had the clout or influence to convince an engine manufacturer to buil
88 Zvezda : It appears that Airbus are increasingly behaving like a real company. I hope that EADS will someday do so also. EADS should simply go to the commercia
89 Atmx2000 : That and such large jet engines hadn't been put on a plane before. These big engines had a market pretty limited to the 777. It's impressive that Boe
90 Post contains links Lumberton : They may be listening to you at last! Here is an interesting report from Forbes. EADS has contacted 5-7 funds in Persian Gulf region for A350 financi
91 Post contains links Poitin : While not a board member, I am on the staff of a man who has several seats and I have often been at board meetings that turned into screaming matches
92 Gbfra : The problem is not that EADS can't finance the A350. There is a big battle going on about HOW to finance the A350. It's about power. The French govern
93 Post contains links SSTsomeday : Interesting! Didn't EADS deny this ony a week ago? EADS Denies Seeking Airbus Investor. http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1163663744.html
94 NAV20 : Airbus PR is getting pathetic. Presumably the denial can be said to be 'true' because what is on offer is a stake in EADS itself, not its Airbus divis
95 Ikramerica : The 748i would appeal most to airlines like BA, UA, NW who don't fly the 77W or 346, though I do think they could fly side by side in a fleet dependi
96 Post contains links Lumberton : I'm not sure they are looking to outside investors to foot the entire development cost; perhaps just that portion that would have been funded with go
97 Astuteman : EADS hedge rates rise gradually from $1.12 now to c$1.21 in 2013..... I believe they have c. $50Bn hedged in the period at the varying rates (off the
98 Post contains links Lumberton : At the end of last year, the value of Airbus' backlog, at list prices, was estimated at USD$210 billion, as discussed on this thread: http://www1.airl
99 Post contains images Astuteman : According to EADS, 50% of $ revenues hedged naturally by US $ procurement. Quickly scanning the 2006 H1 financial statement, EADS did indeed have $50
100 Lumberton : Good point, presumably referring not only to the U.S., but "dollar denominated? currencies in the "dollar zone"?
101 Curmudgeon : With all due respect, I think that you give the airlines too much credit for long term planning. Airlines evaluate aircraft on their evident merits,
102 Gbfra : # 100 Even some European suppliers are paid in dollars by Airbus. # 101 But fleet planning is a typical example of long term planning.
103 Poitin : There is a saying that covers this all and agrees completely with your point: "You are only as good as your last quarter." Have a bad quarter and you
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