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FL Ending ROC-BOS; DL Question  
User currently offlineRocANDtpa From United States of America, joined May 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Eff. Jan. 4 Airtran is ending ROC-BOS. This is real surprising because US did not retaliate by adding a bunch of flights like they did with BUF-BOS when Jetblue announced that route.

Unrelated Question: How many flights can DL have at a station and still have Comair employees? BUF and ROC both had Comair employees, will these stations switch to DL employees with 3 DL flights a day?

Another Unrelated Question: The Commutair Dash 8s are suppose to be coming on line Jan. 1st. Have any routes or upgrades been announced yet?

[Edited 2006-11-24 22:44:21]

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

That is very surprising. ROC-BOS is a natural business route and FL has had a lot of success on other markets with a big business component out of ROC (ATL, DC area thru BWI). I wonder if JetBlue might jump on this one. Two daily EMB-190's would have 18 fewer seats apiece to fill and no front cabin to worry about.

Another possibility is that this route may be canceled seasonally rather than permanently. Think FL's seasonal BWI-MKE and BWI-DFW routes. I could see some leisure and VFR component being part of the ROC-BOS route as well, and that would likely drop off in winter due to Boston's cold-climate location.

Even though US didn't add capacity, if they matched fares, that might have been sufficient to keep AirTran from getting good yields on 206 coach seats and 24 business seats per day on a year-round basis.

Also, at BUF, US canceled their additional BOS capacity shortly after announcing it. How is JetBlue's BUF-BOS doing?

Jim


User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

I would watch for B6 to jump on this route in the near future.


JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 1):
Also, at BUF, US canceled their additional BOS capacity shortly after announcing it.

...um, no, they didn't.

They continue to operate 7x daily BUF-BOS roundtrips on Chautauqua ERJs, up from 4x daily pre-B6.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 3):
They continue to operate 7x daily BUF-BOS roundtrips on Chautauqua ERJs, up from 4x daily pre-B6.

SYR gets 3x DH8, 1x SF340 per day. Will US add some jets to the route? Also, LGA is 9x on most days, but we only have one jet flight on an ERJ. Any chance any of these frequencies will be upgraded as well?


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

Quoting RocANDtpa (Thread starter):
Unrelated Question: How many flights can DL have at a station and still have Comair employees? BUF and ROC both had Comair employees, will these stations switch to DL employees with 3 DL flights a day?

Very unlikely you will see a station with both DL and OH agents, unless its a hub(CVG) or focus city(MCO). Other than that, they usually have one airline ground crews handle everything.

Normally(and what happened to BUF and ROC, if I remember correctly), they were Delta stations, but ended up being all DCI flights with 1 or 2 MD88's. So, DL changed the cities to pure DCI flying and re-assigned the DL employee's elsewhere, and instituted OH employees. And after 6 months or so, you being to see MD88's start returning to the station. It's somewhat sensible to do for a station that small that runs 10 or 12 flights a day with only one mainline flight as compared to a city that has a 50/50 combination of mainline and DCI. Thats the reason that most other stations wouldn't have to fear the same fate, as many mainline stations have a higher ratio of mainline flying than DCI flying. But rarely will you see DL and DCI folks working in the same station. There would be too many fights about why one is getting paid more than the other. lol



OttoPylit


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2871 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Anything's possible, but ROC-BOS did very poorly for AirTran and I'd be surprised to see it come back. In July and August -- normally part of the summer peak -- BOS-ROC and ROC-BOS averaged only 37.8% full. Yes it was a new market, but AirTran is not exactly a new name in Rochester or Boston.

Many of AirTran's newest city pairs got pulled for this winter, including MDW-EWR, IND-LAX, IND-SFO, ATL-SEA and MDW-DFW. Those are all loaded to start again by May. BOS-ROC, DTW-BWI and the restored MKE-BWI, are not. At least not at this point.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):

Was MDW-DFW not performing well? I could have swore they had gone to 3 737s on the route last time I checked. I'm kind of baffled at their moves lately...does anyone have any insight to their moves?


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7448 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

That's too bad to hear. I hope they'de do better. I wish FL would do ROC-LAS ,say 5X a week with a 73G . Hell,WN does 2X a day BUF-LAS.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days ago) and read 2605 times:

...um, no, they didn't.They continue to operate 7x daily BUF-BOS roundtrips on Chautauqua ERJs, up from 4x daily pre-B6.

Thanks for the correction. I thought I'd read here that US had canned the additional capacity. JetBlue's website is showing 3x BUF-BOS nonstop on Jan. 12 and Feb 28. How BUF supports all that capacity on both carriers I'd like to know; they're not that much bigger of an MSA than Rochester.

Jim


User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

B6 does very well on BOS-BUF but I dont see BOS-ROC starting anytime in the future. I think BOS-SYR would start first.

User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 7):

Both DFW and EWR are performing great. problem is that the aircraft does round robins to DFW then mdw then EWR. ATC delays kill the ontime and kills the revenue..... Canceling it in the slow time helps us.

FYI sounds like we will pick up a lot of charters in the slow months. MILITARY stuff.



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineTl8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 9):
Thanks for the correction. I thought I'd read here that US had canned the additional capacity. JetBlue's website is showing 3x BUF-BOS nonstop on Jan. 12 and Feb 28. How BUF supports all that capacity on both carriers I'd like to know; they're not that much bigger of an MSA than Rochester.

Don't make the same mistake alot of legacy airlines make. The MSA has nothing to do with BUF and everything to do with Southern Ontario. The Canadian market is about half the traffic in and out of BUF. BUF supports 3 LCCs ...well not including US....who knows where they fall.

If DL, AA, and NW were really smart they would get rid of their connection carrier employees and go back to mainline folks and invest in some advertising in Canada. Just ask SW...BUF's largest carrier.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2486 times:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 11):

Both DFW and EWR are performing great. problem is that the aircraft does round robins to DFW then mdw then EWR. ATC delays kill the ontime and kills the revenue..... Canceling it in the slow time helps us.

It does not make any sense still. Midway-Dallas and Midway-Newark are clearly business markets. Business demand doesn't really slow down between January and early April, when the routes are being suspended. If anything, it slows most in July and August. It is also a poor move to suspend flights on a business route, especially when you are trying to build up a loyal flier base on the route. They will suddenly see the flights suspended, and either a) not realize the service is resuming or b) realize it is resuming, and then question if airTran will be able to remain a stable carrier on the route.

IMO, airTran simply has not been able to break into the Midway-Dallas/Newark markets because other airlines - ATA and Continental, respectively - have long been entrenched in the market. With Charlotte, Boston, and, soon, Miami, they are the only carrier in the market. Wiith Minneapolis they compete with Northwest, but have a great following thanks to being the only low-fare airline in a very high fare market (sans lesiure oriented Sun Country).



a.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 11):
Both DFW and EWR are performing great. problem is that the aircraft does round robins to DFW then mdw then EWR. ATC delays kill the ontime and kills the revenue..... Canceling it in the slow time helps us.

Even with ATC issues, why would AirTran cancel routes that are ""performing great"" - it simply makes no sense. AirTran is trying to grow, they would not discontinue routes that are making money.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
It does not make any sense still. Midway-Dallas and Midway-Newark are clearly business markets.

Agreed.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
IMO, airTran simply has not been able to break into the Midway-Dallas/Newark markets because other airlines - ATA and Continental, respectively - have long been entrenched in the market.

This is probably the correct answer - the subject routes were probably not making money due to intense competition. Maybe the airplanes were filled, but not at profitable fares.


User currently offlineZRB2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting Tl8490 (Reply 12):
The Canadian market is about half the traffic in and out of BUF. BUF supports 3 LCCs ...well not including US....who knows where they fall.

I read something a couple months ago that said Canadian travelers make up anywhere from 27% to 29% of the BUF traffic. That's not exactly "half" as you put it but it is rising and will be enough to get them over 5 million pax this year....a new record for BUF.

Also, from today's Buffalo News, more nonstop flights to Orlando are coming...

"AirTran Airways will launch its first direct flight from Buffalo Niagara International Airport on Jan. 11. The airline currently offers connecting service from Buffalo on 10 flights per day. As of Jan. 11, it will offer the new midafternoon direct flight to Orlando, as well as seven connecting flights.

And just in time for spring break, Southwest Airlines will add a third daily direct flight to Orlando, starting March 11."


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