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UA: Only US Major Without A Merger In The Past 20?  
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3132 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6137 times:

It seems that UA is the only major US carrier not to have gone through a merger in the past 20 years. Yet it still is amony the top 3 (2) largest US carriers.

I wonder how the lack of merger has helped or hindered the carrier.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6127 times:

Still the same atrocious management!

Signed,

Pat Friend
President, Association of Flight Attendants



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6118 times:

United did own Air Wisconsin for a few years in the early 90s. While it was not merged into the company, it operated as a subsidiary (much like DL did with EV and still does with OH).

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6111 times:
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Well it really stuck it's neck out, fiscally, when it made the play for US that was blocked by the US government on anti-trust reasons. And while it wasn't a "merger" in the dictionary sense, UA did take a large part of Pan American's routes, fleets, and staff when that company started selling itself off in the 1980s and 1990s.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5824 times:

Delta hasn't had any mergers in 19 years. How bout we count that one?

NS


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

United has not merged in the past 20 because they don't need to. End of story.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 1):
Still the same atrocious management!

Oh dear, your entitled to your opinion of course but without this management UA more than likely would be a memory now, some very tough decisions had to be made, saving lots of jobs in the process.

Getting back to the thread I think Stitch was right on. taking Pan Ams Pacific and LHR routes certainly help UA to enlarge.


User currently offlineUALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

United did not involve in a full merger with another airlines, but it did purchased the following rights from Pan Am:

Asia Pacific operation (Including the NRT slots)
LHR rights and related operatation
Rights to fly Latin America out of MIA

Asia Pacifc routes have been a success from day one and with services to China since the purchase, UA has a dominant position between US and Asia-Pacific

LHR is going through downsizing with selling of slots to BA and leasing of slots to AC, and South America flights out of MIA has been killed.



Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
User currently offlineLetsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):



Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
It seems that UA is the only major US carrier not to have gone through a merger in the past 20 years

Not for the lack of trying! If the government didn't stop them and US, this statement would be false.


User currently offlineJayspilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

United bought PAN AM's ops listed above. They took Pan Am pilots and in a sense merged senority lists.

Delta did the same thing with the PAn Am Shuttle pilots and planes as well as its European ops, Frankfurt hub and the A-310 fleet.

You could argue that Pan am's flight ops and fleet were merged into 2 companies.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
It seems that UA is the only major US carrier not to have gone through a merger in the past 20 years

Delta...?? They bought some of the Pan Am assets, but it was no merger.
Continentel...?? I can't think of anything. The deal with NW was a code share and not a true merger. They did come close to merge with DAL, but that fell through

[Edited 2006-11-26 16:41:03]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):
Continentel...?? I can't think of anything.

Didn't CO buy out New York Air?



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2876 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4878 times:

Existing carriers where someone else was consolidated in over the past 20 or so years:

Airtran (ValuJet)
--Bought AirTran and took over their name as part of merger

Alaska
--Jet America

USAirways (America West)
--Bought USAirways and took over their name as part of merger
--Piedmont
--Empire
--PSA

American
--TWA
--AirCal

ATA
none

Continental
--People Express
--Frontier
--Texas International (TI bought CO and took over their name)
--New York Air

Delta
--Western
--Pan Am Shuttle/Atlantic

Frontier
none

JetBlue
none

Midwest
none

Northwest
--Republic

Southwest
--Muse
--Morris

Spirit
none

United
--PanAm Pacific Division

Some of these are judgement calls, but in general if aircraft and employees are included, I think that counts. If it was just taking over route authority, I don't think it does. Also I did not include purchases without key integration such as Alaska buying Horizon, or any regional carrier mergers.


User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1119 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):
Continentel...?? I can't think of anything.

Didn't CO buy out New York Air?

Texas Air the company that owned New York Air among others purchased CAL and eventually lumped them into the CAL name in 1987..


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
Didn't CO buy out New York Air?

NY was a subsidiary of Texas Air Corp, as was Continental. We used Continental and Texas Air aircraft, and were always "Company" with Continental. Our last 737-3T0's were delivered in full CO colors with a sticker saying "owned and operated by New York Air". This was well before we were absorbed into CO.

NY was never Purchased by Continental, but rather folded into the company by Texas Air Corp.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

I am not sure the United purchase of PanAm's Pacific/Asia assets qualifies as a *Merger*.
So we need to go back to the Capital merger of 1961 as the last true consolidation of the whole of two airlines.

As important as the Asian routes are, the fact remains is that United has built a tremendous domestic network, almost single-handedly, over the course of 45 years.....and that with a "Retarded" management....maybe some should re-think that assessement?, no U.S. airline has been free of turbulence these 25 or so years post-deregulation.

But it is an interesting observation Zrs70, United's feat, when looked at objectively, is impressive....and just so you all know, the last UA flight I took was before most of you were born, they are far from my preferred airline, but I think it is high time to give credit where credit is due.



Delete this User
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
American
--TWA
--AirCal

Add QQ (RenoAir) to that list


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4791 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
Continental
--People Express
--Frontier
--Texas International (TI bought CO and took over their name)
--New York Air

Close...!! 19 years and 10 months ago...!! JUST made it under the 20 year clause. Feb 01, 1987

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
Delta
--Western
--Pan Am Shuttle/Atlantic

Again..close. The Delta web site only shows 1987 as teh date of the Westren/Delta merger.. no actual date is listed. Pan Am mergred with no one. They shut down and were later picked apart. The term 'Merger' in my book is for two up and running companies that join forces willingly to become one single full running comany.

[Edited 2006-11-26 20:29:30]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1119 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4780 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Close...!! 19 years and 10 months ago...!! JUST made it under the 20 year clause. Feb 01, 1987

ONE UGLY DAY!!!...I worked for a ground handling company in MSP,the feds grounded a PEX/CAL 747 that was flinga some package charter,they than flew another 74 on a rescue,it was promptly grounded,they sat for at least a week,it was a media feeding frenzy with all the happy campers,from what I have heard this was the least on CAL's problems at the time.


User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4764 times:

The above lists of mergers seem to me to be the perfect argument AGAINST airline mergers. Only the M&A people on Wall Street win.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4764 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Pan Am mergred with no one. They shut down and were later picked apart.

Delta took control of the Atlantic Division (save for DTW/London) and the shuttle well before Pan Am shut down.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4655 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 6):
Oh dear, your entitled to your opinion of course but without this management UA more than likely would be a memory now, some very tough decisions had to be made, saving lots of jobs in the process.

Getting back to the thread I think Stitch was right on. taking Pan Ams Pacific and LHR routes certainly help UA to enlarge.

Should have been obvious from the rest of my post, the part you didn't copy and paste, that I was saying that tongue-in-cheek, and that wasn't my opinion at all.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineN200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 784 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
Also I did not include purchases without key integration such as Alaska buying Horizon, or any regional carrier mergers.

Then you would have to exclude Muse Air from Southwest, as they were never merged or integrated into WN.

Also, if we're including Pan Am's Asian and Euro services being purchased by UA and DL, should we also include AA taking over Eastern's South American operation, which they in turn inherited from Braniff?


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4587 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
Continental
--People Express
--Frontier
--Texas International (TI bought CO and took over their name)
--New York Air

Aren't there pieces of the old Eastern in there as well?


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2876 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4464 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 16):
Add QQ (RenoAir) to that list

Thanks...they slipped my mind.

Quoting N200WN (Reply 22):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
Also I did not include purchases without key integration such as Alaska buying Horizon, or any regional carrier mergers.

Then you would have to exclude Muse Air from Southwest, as they were never merged or integrated into WN.

Muse (renamed TranStar after Southwest bought them) aircraft were never rolled into the Southwest fleet -- they were M80/D95 and Southwest was 737. I decided to include them primarily based on employees ultimately being integrated into Southwest. If in fact Southwest just bought Muse, changed their name to TranStar,and eventually just shut it down and laid everybody off, that's not much of a merger.


25 Post contains images PanHAM : no, you can't. That was an asset purchase. not a merger. finally found the correct term in reply 19. M&A stands for mergers and akquisitions. One can
26 Jetjack74 : Mohawk airlines-although more than 20 years ago. Trump Shuttle
27 Zrs70 : Well, here is a cut and paste from the DL website: "1987 Western Airlines merges with Delta; becomes the fourth largest U.S. carrier and fifth larges
28 Rampart : This is similar to how AA handled Reno and Aircal, how US handled PSA, and how WN (again) handled Morris. Not everyone was laid off (didn't WN use so
29 PanHAM : ,,,and that is exactly why I said (without googling history) one can ARGUE... DL at that time was much bigger than WA. If they agreed on an equal ter
30 AADC10 : The management may have been atrocious, but it has completely changed at least twice over the last 20 years, so they may be idiots, but they are not
31 Zrs70 : I was quoting these in your support, not to argue!
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