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US Airways-Delta Merger Good For Airbus.  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8293 times:

Hello ,

If this merger occurs , it will be really good for airbus , as US has all middle-long range Airbus A/C. Delta has 136 old MD , and some old 757/767 A/C

The age of Delta fleet is 13 years.

Will we see a Delta 350 order ? Maybe a 330?

What do you think ?



Regards

LHStarAlliance

[Edited 2006-11-26 12:42:11]

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8274 times:

Delta inherited Pan Am's A310s and then ordered a handful of their own. Otherwise, they have avoided Airbus. It's hard to predict what a merged US/DL airline would do (if it happens) but you are right that it couldn't do Airbus any harm. Future A320 orders can't be unlikely and it makes the prospect of more Airbus widebodies in DL colours that much more likely. That'd be nice.

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8266 times:

I hope that this merger will not happen.I love DL and I hope they will keep their own identity.On the other side, I hate US Airways, I have never liked their fleet


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8264 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
I hope that this merger will not happen.I love DL and I hope they will keep their own identity.On the other side, I hate US Airways, I have never liked their fleet

I believe the intention is to keep the DL name if the merger goes ahead. By "their fleet", you mean Airbus?


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
I hope that this merger will not happen.I love DL

sure it would be pity to see disappear DL , I love this great T7 with this great Livery in FRA
 cloudnine 


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8248 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
I believe the intention is to keep the DL

You never know , but it´s the most possible that US keeps the DL name ,
I think it will be like AF/KL


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

DL currently is one of the American airlines which have a gentlemen's exclusivity agreement with Boeing which locks out Airbus from bidding for any fleet renewal...

US on the other hand is a very big customer of Airbus and thanks its survival (partially) on Airbus financial help in though times.

If US buys DL and merges with them, I think it is a given the gentemen's agreement is no longer standing and Airbus orders are very likely at some point in the future.

Of course the new DL would also buy from Boeing if the plane and the price is right, but as you say PM, a merger would certainly do no harm to Airbus. Boeing would be the looser here, since they would at least get competition (and likely also less orders as some might very well go to Airbus), which is good news actually, because who can be against fair and open competition?  Wink


User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

You must be kidding, right?

There are more Boeing aircraft in the hypothetical US-DL merger than there are Airbus aircraft. If such a merger were to take place, the chances would be MUCH better for Boeing than for Airbus for new airplane orders.

Why do you assume that a merger would automatically result in new aircraft orders? This usually doesn't happen. When AA bought TW, they disposed of ALL of the new Boeing 717s in TW's fleet. Most likely, the Airbus planes would all be disposed of in the same manner.

SparkingWave ~~~



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8207 times:

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 7):
all be disposed of in the same manner.

330 are all "new" , 767/757 are old .

Would be stupid to stay with the 767/757


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8191 times:

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 7):
There are more Boeing aircraft in the hypothetical US-DL merger than there are Airbus aircraft.

True.

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 7):
If such a merger were to take place, the chances would be MUCH better for Boeing than for Airbus for new airplane orders.

I doubt it. At present, DL are ONLY buying Boeings while US are - theoretically - buying both. A combined US/DL would be unlikely to confine themselves only to the Boeing product line. Thus, such a merger would be better news for Airbus than Boeing.

Thus, "chances would be MUCH better for Boeing than for Airbus"  no 

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 7):
Most likely, the Airbus planes would all be disposed of in the same manner.

Kind of depends who's calling the shots. We're calling it a "merger" but it's US who are driving it and who would come out in charge.


User currently offlineBoogyJay From France, joined May 2005, 490 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8168 times:

US merger proposal to DL was that the DL name would be kept.

User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8160 times:

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 7):
the chances would be MUCH better for Boeing than for Airbus for new airplane orders.

No , as there are Boeing A/C that have to go , and US has "new" 330 , so to have fleet commonality DL also buys for example the 330 .

Then DL and US have new A/C .


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8135 times:

The 777-200LR is on it's way to DL and with a large amount of 767-400ER/777 in the fleet, long-haul is pretty much covered. The 767-400ER is not that old and getting A330s will just complicate the fleet and A330s are very hard to get at the moment so you may as well wait for the 787 I'm sure the 767s can last that long.

Is US still getting the A350? I haven't heard anything since the XWB was announced.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8123 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 12):
you may as well wait for the 787

Or the 350 , US has still 350 orders , and has not canceled .


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8099 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 13):
Or the 350 , US has still 350 orders , and has not canceled .

Which is great for Airbus and US but how long can an airline(s) wait? The latest date I have heard on here for the -1000 is 2014! I know DL and US may not want the XWB-1000 especially since DL is getting new 777s but the 787-10, although it's been quiet recently, must be interesting to DL as are the other 787 models.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8092 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 14):
he latest date I have heard on here for the -1000 is 2014!

And to get the 787 ?


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8083 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 15):
And to get the 787 ?

I think the latest date for the 787 is 2012/13. That's with all of it's current orders. The 787-10 first delivery (if launched) is anyone's guess for the main reason that it hasn't been launched yet.


User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8008 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 14):
The latest date I have heard on here for the -1000 is 2014!

Try 2015  Smile

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 16):
I think the latest date for the 787 is 2012/13. That's with all of it's current orders.

No, I don't think it that's the case, there are unannounced orders in the pipeline in the 2011-2012 time frame, but carriers that haven't reserved slots will probably have to wait until late 2012-2013.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7976 times:
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[quote=SparkingWave,reply=7]You must be kidding, right?

There are more Boeing aircraft in the hypothetical US-DL merger than there are Airbus aircraft. If such a merger were to take place, the chances would be MUCH better for Boeing than for Airbus for new airplane orders.quote]

This is nothing more than a Airbus versus Boeing thread in disguise. NO ONE knows (I would say including Parker) whether Airbus or Boeing would see the next order. First there would be reductions in capacity which may fend off an order for quite some time.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 16):
I think the latest date for the 787 is 2012/13

So , it´s better to wait 1-2 years more and stay with fleet commonality , I think.

Don´t think I´m an Airbus cheerleader but this seems for me the most logical way.

I´ld also love a 787 in US and DL livery.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7940 times:
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Delta has a lot more 767's than US has A330's. It wouldn't be hard to eliminate the A330 from the fleet. I'm sure NW would take them. Also, Boeing is one of Delta's biggest creditors. You don't think they're stupid enough to allow a merger to go through that would see them lose aircraft orders to their most bitter rival do you?


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7932 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 20):
Delta has a lot more 767's

The 767 are far older than the 330 .



*I read this here: http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=1704

original from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7918 times:

If the airlines were to merge there would be over 400 Boeings in the fleet including brand new 777s and the Airbus fleet would be around half of that. Although I like Airbus I think in this case it would be better to order Boeings for DL and keep US ordering Airbus including A350s. If they become one airline under the Delta name with all those Boeings in the fleet it would be better to stay with them and phase/sell Airbus planes. Lots of airlines want A330s and I'm sure there's money to be made if US sell them.
I'd rather the two airlines stay separate and operate closely but with US being Airbus and DL being Boeing.

The 767-400s were all delivered a few years ago but the older 300s are in need of replacement and A330s in the past have been great at replacing 767s just like 787s are supposedly great for replacing A330s and 767s that are still flying.

[Edited 2006-11-26 14:48:39]

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7901 times:
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Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
The 767 are far older than the 330 .

I understand that. Delta has somewhere around 105 767's, whereas US Airways has only 9 A330's. Which airplane makes the most sense to leave the fleet to you? I would be parking the 9 A330's in a heartbeat. You can make up the capacity through route re-allocation.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7889 times:

First, a combined US/DL (if this nightmare comes true) would determine how many aircraft it would require going forward as a merged entity.....you can be certain that many aircraft would be parked, sold off, leased out, etc.....only when that is accomplished will the merged airline look forward.

My guess is that intital orders would be for longhaul widebody aircraft....that seems to be where the money and the growth is (especially over at DL), and for longhaul, my guess is that Boeing has the edge for a couple of reasons. DL currently has a huge Boeing 767 fleet. DL has additional 777s on order. US's A330 fleet is tiny when compared to DL's widebodies. And, at this moment, Boeing has the better selection of medium capacity widebody airliners....the 787 and 777 are very good products. DL/US would not be interested in A380s, and the A350/XWB is still uncertain......as far as timing and capacity and variants. I am not ruling anything out, we have had many surprises, but for longhaul I would bet on Boeing.

On the narrow body front, its even more unclear what would happen......there are lots of A32Xs around (some of which are very new, others are early build examples with lots of years of service), there is a good number of shiny new 738s with DL, and there are US's 737 Classics to think about plus Delta's MD80s/MD90s......my guess is that the 737 Classics would be the first to go and its unclear whether they would be replaced as the merged airline combines, realigns and cuts back duplicate services (a hub, who knows which one, would go). When an new order is placed, its anyone's guess as to what would happen......but remember that DL still as commitments to the 737NG that are not going away without some negotiation. Also consider that there reports that HP management (the men and women now running this show) stated that they were considering Boeing for short haul......anything could happen. The combined DL/US would probably wait for the next generation of narrow body airliners to be introduced......making it even more unclear.

My opinion:

Longhaul Widebody- Boeing has an edge.
Short/Medium Haul Narrowbody - too close to call.


25 LHStarAlliance : Well maybe , as said I´m not for A or for B. But US has 20 350XWB on order. So I mean instead of order 787 and 350 , they´ll order just one , the 3
26 Post contains links Srbmod : This topic is already being discussed in this thread: Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation
27 Dutchjet : Dont foreget how many 737NGs and MD80/90s the combined airline would have.....the most likely scenario is that US/DL would fly the 737NG and A32X sid
28 AirTran737 : Which Doug Parker has been quoted in the past saying that their debt to Airbus has been paid off and could cancel the A350 at anytime without a penal
29 Shamrock350 : The XWB is a very different aircraft to what US ordered and now that the debt which AirTran737 has mentioned has been paid back anything could happen
30 ATLAaron : The debt mentioned above was one of the first if not the first debt to be refinanced by the newly emerged/combined US Airways. This refinancing made t
31 Post contains links ANCFlyer : There are 5 threads for this type of conversation, all put together by the Mods . . . Suggest Delete on this thread which clearly violates the duplica
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