Tripleboom From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 278 posts, RR: 13 Posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5219 times:
Sooooooooo... As of 2000 CST this evening ATS took over both counter and ramp service for NW. So far I've seen an A319 parked for 10 minutes with its #1 engine still running until the ATS agents figured out where to plug it in. Then they managed to underpark a DC-9. Then there was a mad scramble around both a/c trying to figure out how to open the doors. The ATS manager came running out yelling at everyone and trying to start working the DC-9 by himself while 8 (no exaggeration) other ATS agents stood around the A319 staring at the doors in some dumbstruck state of awe. The NW passengers are standing at the carousel right now waiting for their bags that they are hoping to get sometime before 2130 CST rolls around, and honestly, I'm not holding out much hope for this. This crack team of agents will be providing me with lots of laughs for a weeks. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go grab a bag of popcorn and a lawnchair and go watch the show!
Tripleboom From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 278 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5199 times:
I forgot. As we were walking back from working our last CR7 we saw the A319 sitting there with engines running and the cockpit crew were actually waving at us and knocking on their windows trying to get our attention as the now unemployed NW ramp agents casually walked by with their lunchboxes for the last time. I couldn't help but laugh. Classy, no. Funny, certainly.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5112 times:
Fairley typical...NW is going to eat their words on this one, and soon. JAX is an utter mess right now. These aren't just growing pains, it's sheer incompetence- for $7-$8 an hour you can't buy brains.
CirrusDriver From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5070 times:
I worked in operations for Delta in PHX. In early 2006, Delta contracted out the ramp and operations to ATS. I was offered, and accepted, the operations position with ATS and ended up quiting after 8 weeks because, first: they failed to provide me with a single paycheck. Second: Half of the people working the ramp for ATS spoke little english and did not have badges because they had not yet passed the background check. Those who had badges where told to escort them, which hardly ever happened because the ones with the badges just didn't care to. Third: If someone was hired for operations, ATS would give them a one week crash training course on performing operational duties (load planning, certain weight and balance duties etc) with the promise that a current operations agent would be there with them to complete the training and to mentor them (I was never once asked to do this nor did I hear about this till I left). ATS never provided this mentor, which caused one new hire to run out of the building screaming and sobbing in the middle of a busy afternoon bank. From what I understand, nothing has changed.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5641 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5005 times:
Having worked for ATS at a city in SoCal at one point-in-time in the past, I can say that it was a pretty tight operation. There were rarely any snags. However, I must say that ATS was pretty under-trained here, almost as if the airline said, "Start work tomorrow, but we won't have time to train you," which pretty much places everything learned as OJT.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Tripleboom From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 278 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4990 times:
All together it took about an hour after the bags were dropped for the new ATS operations/ticket counter staff to take the bag claims from the inbound DC-9 and A319. I can hardly wait to see how the operation goes tomorrow morning with the start at 0500. Honestly though, I just feel plain bad for the passengers. The common pax will have no idea what they're getting themselves into tomorrow A.M. Their check-in process, boarding process, and baggage claim tomorrow could all wind up being a terrible trifecta of airport torture.
NW decided a few months back, in several stations, to begin systematically removing (aka laying off) their own ramp agents and counter agetns and replacing them with contracted ground servicers. Airport Terminal Services is the one selected for OMA and so far they have been doing, to put it nicely, a less than stellar job.
OMA2FAI2SAV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4866 times:
It is too bad they are not hireing. I would like to ramp with them in OMA for a few reasons.
1.) To see this circuis for myself.
2.) To try to teach what I know.
3.) Just to get back home to Omaha.
Now granted, I have not written many training manuals in my life, I was a trainer for Mesaba and Independence Air. I would hope I could help somehow. Now, if anyone can find me a job with an airline back home in Omaha, I am happy to accept!
NoBoeingNoGoin From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4779 times:
NWA is outsourcing 69 cities... So basically any city without more than 50 mainline flights a week.
Some examples: JAX, MIA, TYS, CLT, GSO, RDU, BHM, etc.
TYS was outsourced with Pinnacle
They are crap! The other day they parked an airplane at our gate and used our jetway (A US gate) without even asking us!
I have already gotten complaints about them from other passengers. Hope all of this doesn't go well... because rumor has it that more cities will go if it goes well.
Alex in TYS
Charlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4640 times:
Quoting Tripleboom (Reply 2): I forgot. As we were walking back from working our last CR7 we saw the A319 sitting there with engines running and the cockpit crew were actually waving at us and knocking on their windows trying to get our attention as the now unemployed NW ramp agents casually walked by with their lunchboxes for the last time. I couldn't help but laugh. Classy, no. Funny, certainly.
That right there made my day...hey but at least the pilots still have their jobs! Keep us posted on the fun and games...you get what you pay for Dougie
Tripleboom From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 278 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4583 times:
Quoting OMA2FAI2SAV (Reply 14): Now, if anyone can find me a job with an airline back home in Omaha, I am happy to accept!
We just had one of our full-timers at F9 in OMA get a promotion out in LAS so we'll be hiring a new full-timer soon. Kepp your eyes and ears peeled. OMA is a growing station for a lot of airlines right now.
1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 315 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4561 times:
An old wiseman once said, "You get what you pay for." Going to contract companies causes major problems. Sure in the short term it looks great on paper and you save a few bucks. In the long term you end up losing customers because of repeated poor performance and they end up going to a Southwest.
I worked for a contract company at SAN. Low pay, no flight benefits, nobody cared about you and the employees didn't care. You had idiots working with airplanes and fuel which is a scary sight. In the long run I would think contracting out would cause more problems than saves in money. Pax getting pissed, bags being damaged (Ats broke my bag, I watched the guy toss my bag to the ground), aircraft and ground equipt being damaged.
Any thoughts on the benefits of contracted companies besides money.
OMA2FAI2SAV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4449 times:
Quoting Tripleboom (Reply 19): We just had one of our full-timers at F9 in OMA get a promotion out in LAS so we'll be hiring a new full-timer soon. Kepp your eyes and ears peeled. OMA is a growing station for a lot of airlines right now.
Definatly. I have been trying to get on with F9 in OMA forever. Thanks for the heads up.
Flyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1016 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4440 times:
I have worked for airlines and contractors. In the case of ATS, they are as good of a company, as the station manager they hire. At PHX, they hired the DL ramp manager, so he should have been able to get everyone properly trained. ATS budgets seperately for a station trainer, so it appears that in OMA, they definately dropped the ball. Additionally, it used to be that when a contractor took over an operation, no matter what the size, they sent in an "A-Team" if you will to TDY for a week or two until they felt comfortable that the staff hired locally could manage on their own. They used to feel compelled to do this because if you are hiring off the street, you don't have an opportunity to do OJT because of the contractual rules with the airline personel.
Overall ATS is a good contractor. Sure, they have their issues as much as any airline or contractor will...which is only human. However, I do think they bit off more than they could chew taking about 1/3 of the cities NW put up for contract, and didn't have a chance to do what they did in the past to make a station successful.
Tripleboom From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 278 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4373 times:
Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 23): In the case of ATS, they are as good of a company, as the station manager they hire. At PHX, they hired the DL ramp manager, so he should have been able to get everyone properly trained. ATS budgets seperately for a station trainer, so it appears that in OMA, they definately dropped the ball.
The current ATS manager has been here for a while as they have been operating AA ground service for quite some time. It seemed to me he's had his hands full with 5 DC-9-80s to DFW daily and 5 E-145 and a CR7 to ORD daily. Throw all that on top of this new NW gig and he's pulling his hair out right now. He definitely had enough notification to get his staffing up and get them trained, but from what I've seen in the first 24 hours. Yikes.
I saw one of the agents just an hour ago chock the mains on an A319 WITH THE ENGINES STILL RUNNING. Seriously. Someone is going to get hurt or killed here. NW doesn't need a news story about a ramper getting ingested, but these guys seem bound and determined to do just that.
Their dual ops today, two CRJs, was an absolute nightmare. I could only see the feet moving on the other side of the a/c but they were definitely stopping, starting, moving in all sorts of directions. It's just so sad.
Fly Frontier folks. For your own sake.
25 UN_B732: You get what you pay for.. Hopefully NW's management will discover this, but I'm doubtful -A
26 FlyDreamliner: Amen. You would think the geniuses who are 'saving the airline' might have thought of the possible liabilities in hiring cheapest possible labor....
27 5mileBob: For what is it worth: I was surprised to see that ATS was doing the work for AirTran at the Humphrey Terminal at MSP as I had never heard of them befo
28 Flyibaby: Well...you do get what you pay for, but I still say that it depends. I manage a city for a different contract company and I would put my crew up again
29 Tripleboom: A majority of our workgroup at F9 in OMA is being groomed for positions elsewhere. I'm going into dispatch, we've got to guys with their A & P waitin
30 Delta777: Yes, PIT is being outsourced......should start in Dec. D E L T A 7 7 7
31 GlobeTrekker: Are these ATS employees wearing NW uniform or are they wearing ATS' uniform?
32 Tripleboom: Currently it's a mix of both. Some counter agents are wearing NW polos, and some are wearing some generic non-descript dress clothes. The ramp agents
33 Flypdx: Thanks. I was just in PIT and the ground crews did a great job, and I didn't know if that was pre or post outsourcing..A few weeks prior a relative s
34 M404: Are their any DL people out there that could give us a comparison of how the transfer to DGS went. From what I saw it was pretty much the same expensi
35 OMA2FAI2SAV: DGS where? It depends on the city. I recently left my job in SAV with DGS. I have stories. Some of the people just plain DONT work. Nothing managemen
36 Ilikeyyc: As a former ATS employee, I can say that I am not surprised. My station was run fairly well, though we did have a few problems. From what I can rememb
37 Azstar: I'm surprised at the animosity directed towards ramp workers in many of these threads. Isn't it NW management's responsibility to make sure training p
38 Flyibaby: The answer to both of your questions is yes; however NW decided to contract so many of their stations at once, that they didn't have the instructor s
39 Access-Air: Doesnt the FAA have anything to say about this outsourcing crap???? Especially with emoployees that cannot pass a background check???? I dont think I