FA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4796 times:
"Porter Airlines, whose flights from Toronto's downtown airport to Ottawa and, next month, to Montreal have sparked a holiday fare war, is "looking closely" at adding New York city as its third destination early in the new year, chief executive Robert Deluce said."
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25869 posts, RR: 79 Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4786 times:
Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 1): Too bad it doesnt have US Pre-Clearance like YYZ.
Does it have Canada Customs? I would imagine so given the amount of trans-border GA traffic, but would that be large enough to sustain 70 seats? Further, LGA's FIS is almost certainly not large enough to handle a flight that isn't pre-cleared.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
EnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 820 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4658 times:
I would imagine they are planning pre-clearance at YTZ considering they are looking at flights to LaGuardia and Midway. If they don't get pre-clearance they would be forced to use EWR and ORD.
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4626 times:
Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 4): I would imagine they are planning pre-clearance at YTZ considering they are looking at flights to LaGuardia and Midway.
MDW has a full Customs/FIS facility and receives a variety of scheduled international flights.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
Tsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 603 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4610 times:
Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 4): If they don't get pre-clearance they would be forced to use EWR and ORD.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25869 posts, RR: 79 Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4570 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3): I'm pretty sure that LaGuardia cannot handle a flight that isn't pre-cleared, period. So YTZ-LGA is out of the question
Technically, it has to be able to in order to recieve pre-cleared flights. LGA does have an FIS, it just happens to be too small for more than a private plane. If something did happen, they could do a full federal inspection, they would just do it very slowly.
Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 4): I would imagine they are planning pre-clearance at YTZ considering they are looking at flights to LaGuardia and Midway. If they don't get pre-clearance they would be forced to use EWR and ORD.
MDW's FIS is big enough to handle a full 753.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4567 times:
The was an airline (I forget the name) operating as Continental Connection in the late 1980s-1990s flying DH-7s EWR-Toronto Island-Ottawa.
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4531 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 8): The was an airline (I forget the name) operating as Continental Connection in the late 1980s-1990s flying DH-7s EWR-Toronto Island-Ottawa.
The most recent transborder service was CommutAir/US Airways Express in 1998 on a HPN-SYR-YTZ routing.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
Cslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 813 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4489 times:
I think that only YTZ-EWR as viable. It would have to arrive at the EWR's Terminal B as it is equipt with the Customes/FIS facility. I don't think that the Yanks would want to open another PFI facility in Canada this soon after the opening of the facility at YHZ. In order to increase the viability of the service Porter could get CO to codeshare on the flight.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15999 posts, RR: 59 Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4345 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 8): The was an airline (I forget the name) operating as Continental Connection in the late 1980s-1990s flying DH-7s EWR-Toronto Island-Ottawa.
City Express.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4300 times:
Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 6): they couls also use JFK...
This route would cater to business travelers, JFK is not a very popular airport for business travelers which is why there is such paltry service from JFK to major business centers such as Toronto, Chicago etc compared to EWR or LGA.
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4232 times:
Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 10): In order to increase the viability of the service Porter could get CO to codeshare on the flight.
But with several YYZ-EWR flights daily, I doubt CO would want to fragment their own market.
While Porter will eventually be serving all their 'future' destinations, but as an armchair network planner, I think YQG is the best choice as their third city. A single (their 5th overall) aircraft would give them 5 roundtrips a day on YQG-YTZ. YQG would also give them access to 30,000 potential connecting onward pax to YOW and YUL. Since both YOW and YUL have multiple daily flights to NYC, Porter can expect to attract very few YOW/YUL-NYC O&D pax.
Given Jazz is the only game in town for YQGers, there is a lot less competition there than at EWR. But, like I said eventually, Porter will be serving all of these cities.
YOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4126 times:
Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 16): Not forgetting to mention that C6, had a short run of flying to MDW from YYZ.
Don't forget that during C6's brief appearance at MDW, they would have used pre-clearance at YYZ. That 2000 YYZ departure 1x/day didn't make much sense.
Fly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 972 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
Quoting YOW (Reply 17):
Don't forget that during C6's brief appearance at MDW, they would have used pre-clearance at YYZ. That 2000 YYZ departure 1x/day didn't make much sense.
It didn't at all! I remember only 4 or 5 passengers coming off the flight! Was incredible to see how MDW couldnt support the service, then again there wasn't much promotion.
Cs03 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 408 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4072 times:
In November 1991, I flew EWR/YTZ/EWR on Air Ontario. Aircraft was DH8-300.
Multimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 747 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4046 times:
Quoting Yow (Reply 14): ...Given Jazz is the only game in town for YQGers, there is a lot less competition there than at EWR. But, like I said eventually, Porter will be serving all of these cities.
You're making the assumption that Porter will be around long enough to add service to all of those cities. Given the amount of discounting they are doing, one has to wonder.
YOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3962 times:
Quoting Multimark (Reply 20): Given the amount of discounting they are doing, one has to wonder.
Porter is one of the best capitalized start-ups ever. They very well may only be second to JetBlue.
Porter's discounts are for the Christmas-New Year's holdiay period when biz pax (PD's bread & butter) disappear for 3 weeks. Porter will still be maintaining 5 YOW-YTZ daily roundtrips over this period. Compare this to AC who for the past couple of years when they were still operating at YTZ stopped all operations outright over Christmas.
Porter's $69 one-way discounts are only matching WS & AC. It's not like they're selling $1 transcontinental fares like some bankrupt lime-green smiley-faced airline used to do.
I would hardly call the below fares for tomorrow's flights deeply-discounted.
Multimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 747 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3901 times:
Quoting YOW (Reply 21): Porter is one of the best capitalized start-ups ever. They very well may only be second to JetBlue.
Yes, we've heard that before. But it doesn't take long to burn through a lot of capital in the airline industry. Porter has been offering various promotional fares since day 1.
EnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 820 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3850 times:
Quoting Multimark (Reply 22):
Yes, we've heard that before. But it doesn't take long to burn through a lot of capital in the airline industry.
Not to mention the number of diversions to YYZ are very high. In the fall and winter there are many days with low ceilings slightly below minimums at YTZ plus fog off the water. For the past month almost every week they have had a day or two full of YYZ diversions. If the same passenger gets diverted more than once in a 6 month period they will be hard customers to get back. Why book to fly from YTZ if it ends up late out of YYZ frequently. Porter can't land on contaminated runways at YTZ either so any days hovering around -7C to 0C with precipitation might cause delays as well. They should have started operations in the spring when the airport has fewer weather issues to build up loyalty and they really need to push Transport Canada for a better ILS to afford lower minimums.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15999 posts, RR: 59 Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3848 times:
Quoting Yow (Reply 14): I think YQG is the best choice as their third city.
I disagree. How many business people in YQG need to be downtown Toronto? Or vice-versa. Not many I think. Air Ontario tried YTZ-YQG and it did not last.
Quoting Yow (Reply 17): Don't forget that during C6's brief appearance at MDW, they would have used pre-clearance at YYZ. That 2000 YYZ departure 1x/day didn't make much sense.
C6 started with 2x daily YYZ-MDW, then reduced to 1x daily. Initially this departure was late afternoon, then 2000.
Quoting Cs03 (Reply 19): I flew EWR/YTZ/EWR on Air Ontario. Aircraft was DH8-300.
Sure it was a -300? I don't recall GX flying the -300 into YTZ. Anyway, their network then was YTZ-YOW/YUL/EWR.
Quoting Multimark (Reply 20): You're making the assumption that Porter will be around long enough to add service to all of those cities. Given the amount of discounting they are doing, one has to wonder.
Their load factors, by all anecdotal accounts, are dismal. Despite the discounting. Suggests strongly that the Q400 was the wrong aircraft.
Quoting Yow (Reply 21): Porter is one of the best capitalized start-ups ever. They very well may only be second to JetBlue.
They still need to generate operating profits.
Quoting Yow (Reply 21): Porter's discounts are for the Christmas-New Year's holdiay period when biz pax (PD's bread & butter) disappear for 3 weeks. Porter will still be maintaining 5 YOW-YTZ daily roundtrips over this period.
The Q400 rents will not decline during this xmas period.
Porter should be working like crazy to bring on more corporate clients for YOW/YUL. Does not seem like they're having much success to date.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
25 Sebring: But buy in advance and the fare falls to $68 each way, and if you use the promo code FAMI, it falls to $34 each way until after the Christmas-New Yea
26 Salomon: According to a frequent flyer from another forum, the FA told him that the breakeven was 23 passengers per flight (70 seats). She (the FA) also said
27 DC10sRULE: What other aircraft would offer 70 seater potential revenues with 37 seater operating costs? I don't think Porter would be saving much if they decide
28 YOW: Well the Ottawa-Toronto route's O&D is about 900,000 or around 2,450 per day and probably more like 2,500-3,000 on weekdays. If Porter can grab marke
29 Kiramakora: Question: what flights from Canada do not pre-clear US Customs in the land of the Cannucks? I remember Halifax. Any other examples? Thanks and good lu
30 YOW: Pretty much any airport which does not have US Customs Pre-Clearance. YHZ now has pre-clearance. Canadian airports with daily year-round Transborder
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