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NWA Flight Attendants Ask Court To Allow Strike  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3122 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6023 times:

Courtesy: Minneapolis/St Paul Business Journal

NWA Flight Attendants Ask Court To Allow Strike

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/061128/1382442.html?.v=1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy: CNN

Northwest Fights Right To Strike

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/28/news....reut/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy: WCCO-TV

NWA: 'Good Business' Means Peace With Attendants

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_332164443.html

[Edited 2006-11-28 23:07:09]

[Edited 2006-11-28 23:13:30]

92 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMSPGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

I like how the one judge pointed out that a strike wouldn't be in the public interest!!!!!

If you want a good paying job, get an education. You don't need a college degree to serve food, drinks, and help people out of a plane!!!!



If it ain't broke, DON'T touch it!!!!
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5852 times:
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Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 1):
I like how the one judge pointed out that a strike wouldn't be in the public interest!!!!!

When does a strike help the public interest.

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 1):
If you want a good paying job, get an education. You don't need a college degree to serve food, drinks, and help people out of a plane!!!!

I have a college degree. Money isn't the underlying issue, it's about us keeping the dignity in our jobs within our jobs. You're sounding very John Kerry-ish.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineSquid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Well here they go again. Why don't the flight attendants just give up and shut up. If you don't like the terms and pay that your airlines is offering, then move along.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13634 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5779 times:
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Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 1):
a strike wouldn't be in the public interest!!!!!

And that's precisely what part of the RLA is based on - it's the business equivalent of mutually assured destruction, and that's what keeps both sides negotiating in good faith.

When one side - in this case NW management - believes the other side doesn't have the ability to inflict harm, there is no reason to negotiate.

I'm not a big fan of organized labor, but judges have spent the better part of the last 4 years rendering the Railway Labor Act meaningless.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5730 times:

Yes go on strike and totally end a career that you have had for ever......makes sense to me.


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5701 times:

Well here they go again. Why don't the flight attendants just give up and shut up. If you don't like the terms and pay that your airlines is offering, then move along.
****

This is where this dispute becomes sticky. The company did offer them terms, agreed to them, and signed a contract stating so. Now the company has thrown out the contract, and imposed fairly heavy wage cuts on the flight attendants.

1) Are you suggesting that NW should be able to just change the contract at will without agreement with the flight attendants ?

2) The judge in this case felt it was not in the publics interest to have the Flight attendants strike, so he blocked it. I feel he should have blocked both the right to strike, but also the wage cuts until both sides can reach an agreement. It seems odd to allow NW to break the contract, impose wage cuts, but not allow the flight attendants to do anything about it

3) Don't get me wrong here, I believe that the flight attendant wages were unsustainable, but a contract is a contract. If you need to change it, then it is something that needs to be agreed upon by both parties. For NW to say that they will go out of business if the wage structure doesn't change is NW's problem, they agreed to this contract, and should live by it, not just cry foul when it no longer suits them.


User currently offlineLucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Quoting Squid (Reply 3):
Well here they go again. Why don't the flight attendants just give up and shut up. If you don't like the terms and pay that your airlines is offering, then move along.

Man I am really getting sick of your "if you don't like it move along" crap. You are in your 20's and haven't even started paying your dues in the workplace..Easy for you to just say "move along" alot of the people in the nwa fight have more working time than you have on this earth pal. I could explain it to you in detail but you will never understand the concept of seniority and having to start over. I did it and feel damn lucky (hence the name) to work for an outstanding company but that does not mean that I don't have a chapped ass for all I have lost in the 17 yrs I worked for nwa..


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 1):
If you want a good paying job, get an education. You don't need a college degree to serve food, drinks, and help people out of a plane!!!!

What a crappy attitude.

The job is much more than that. We are the faces of a company in the people business.

Running an airline is like a gigantic show..an illusion...behind those doors in the terminal is absolute chaos going on most of the time. The "art" in running an airline is being able to "never let them see you (or the company) sweat".

So in a sense, we're performers as well as safety personnel. And the fact that I have a brain and an education to go with it, and speak 5 languages all needed by the company, i' think i'm worth more than $10 an hour. I mean, I just retired a few months ago because i couldn't take the maddness anymore.

It's attitudes like yours that make those of us who have to deal with you dislike serving you. The vast majority of customers are just fine. The 2% factor of poeple like you can make our lives pretty unpleasant.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineLucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5667 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
And that's precisely what part of the RLA is based on - it's the business equivalent of mutually assured destruction, and that's what keeps both sides negotiating in good faith.

Yeah the problem is that the RLA is abused by the airlines against labor. The NMB allows the airlines to drag out contracts in good economic times years after the amendable date. Case in point was the AMFA contract at NWA. We had a virtual wage freeze from 1993 to 2001 under the iam when the airlines were making record profits. Then Amfa comes in and we fought for and got a 30 percent increase in salary and it was lambasted by the flying public with phrases like "mechanics won the lottery" but think about it the rest of the working world was averaging 3 to 5 percent per year raises while we didn't get any for 8 yrs. Even with what was perceived to be an outlandish raise adjusted over 8 yrs it falls in the middle of average working America except that average America had the money up front to invest or whatever. Only people who work in this industry will ever understand it.


User currently offlineSquid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

I think it is great that a flight attendant can speak whatever language is needed for the airline but that doesn't mean the companys should bow down to their employee's. The company should be free to offer what they see as fair compensation for the job and if a flight attendant with the ability to speak five languages doesn't think the wage the company is offering is fair than they should leave and find work for a company that see's them as an asset and pays them accordingly. In America, union's should be illegal. The way I was brought up, they were not only sinful, but anti-American. If NWA want's to lower the payscale and benifit's so low, then they will get what they pay for. If NWA doesn't like the quality of the people who are serving and interacting with their customers, then they will raise the wages and "clean house" to bring in better people. But because of the union's thinking which is "we will all be treated fairly no matter who does a better job-all for one, one for all" mentality, it prevents global airlines like NWA from hiring Japanise and Chinese speakers, inforcing a weight and appearance scale, paying people with more useful skills like language, and the ability to position those people on flights as the company see's fit. If an interested candidate can speak languages that the airline need's and "looks the part, i.e. slim,pretty, and wears make-up, the company should have the ability to offer that person highr pay and the ability to bid for flights where those language skills and her/his attractive immage whould offer the company a competative advantage to their competitors. But instead, because of the unions, they will start on reserve, possibly in MEM, flying reserve and DC-9's for the next 20 years. What good is it to have a gorgious, friendly flight attendant with the ability to serve flawlessly in business class and speak Japanise or Chinese to their highest paying customers flying OMA and FSD turns? But because of the unions un-wavering fight, NWA must now find people to hire while only offering about $16,000 per year starting. Now $16,000 starting might be fine for a good majority of their new FA's because NWA will need those new people to fly FSD and OMA turns, but they also need to get with the program on the international side. NWA is facing stiffer competiton by the year from companies like JAL and Cathy. The kind of people NWA really needs and really wants would demand more of a wage like $35,000/ year +.

Just my opinion.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5590 times:
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Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):
Yes go on strike and totally end a career that you have had for ever......makes sense to me.

It's not about that, it's about using leverage to bring the company to the negotiating table.The company drags out negotiations behind the bankruptcy courts until they feel they've outlasted the us. If we bring the company to a halt, than that's a consequence

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 7):
Man I am really getting sick of your "if you don't like it move along" crap. You are in your 20's and haven't even started paying your dues in the workplace

Yeah, well when he's having to earn a living, and make ends meet, he'll see things differently

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 7):
Easy for you to just say "move along" alot of the people in the nwa fight have more working time than you have on this earth pal. I could explain it to you in detail but you will never understand the concept of seniority and having to start over. I did it and feel damn lucky (hence the name) to work for an outstanding company but that does not mean that I don't have a chapped ass for all I have lost in the 17 yrs I worked for nwa..

Yes, it's preserving a certain respectability in our professions. Part of it is keeping wages high enough to attract a better type of person.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
It's not about that, it's about using leverage to bring the company to the negotiating table.The company drags out negotiations behind the bankruptcy courts until they feel they've outlasted the us. If we bring the company to a halt, than that's a consequence

Ahhh new tactics, much like what the air traffic controllers did in 81! See, that is my problem, we just bring the company to a halt attitude really does suck, really does! Yes, flight attendants pay is for sure horrid and should be not as it is, but when you mention "bring the company to a halt", sure puts a sour note my desire to listen to the causes of the lengthy negotiations and makes me wonder what your next career is going to be!



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineMiCorazonAzul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 1):
If you want a good paying job, get an education.

It's not a pay issue but it's about integrity.

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 1):
You don't need a college degree to serve food, drinks, and help people out of a plane!!!!

You are correct yet in the event of an emergency, who are you going to turn to? All the training we go through is for a reason. Getting hired as a F/A for a major is not easy let alone the training. Don't try to make it seem like it's a nothing job because it isn't. For many of us, it is a CAREER.

Quoting Squid (Reply 3):
Well here they go again. Why don't the flight attendants just give up and shut up. If you don't like the terms and pay that your airlines is offering, then move along.

RIIIGGHHHTTTT...tell that to a senior flight attendant with lots of years in the company. Sure they can go to another airline but start at the BOTTOM of the seniority list. We all know that seniority is EVERYTHING in the biz. Also, what about company pride? Some of these people might genuinely love their airline just not what management is doing to them. In other words, in NOT that easy.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12708 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 6):
For NW to say that they will go out of business if the wage structure doesn't change is NW's problem, they agreed to this contract, and should live by it, not just cry foul when it no longer suits them.

That's how things normally work, but since NW is in bankruptcy, indeed they can just throw out the contract, with the judge's approval.

A bankrupt company is a failed company! The fact that NW FAs even have jobs now is solely due to the bankruptcy process. If the judge thought it was in the best interest of the creditors for the company to fold up and sell off all its property, that is what would have happened, and it may yet happen.

Leagally speaking, NW FAs signed a contract with a company that failed, not the one that hopes to emerge from bankruptcy. The investors will be lucky to get pennies on the dollar after all is said and done. The FAs had to realize they were working for a company with major issues, and now unfortunately the spam has hit the fan, and everyone is covered in it.

So, no, it's not NW's problem. Everyone involved in a corporation (employees, management, executives, directors, investors) is taking a risk. It's just plain old capitalism at work. NW promised things it could not deliver. It's pretty clear to me the FAs could and should have seen something like this happening. To now say the company should just make things right by them is very, very naive. If such ignorance of how capitalism works wasn't so sad, it'd be laughable.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineMSPGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 8):
It's attitudes like yours that make those of us who have to deal with you dislike serving you. The vast majority of customers are just fine. The 2% factor of poeple like you can make our lives pretty unpleasant.

Actually when I fly I'm very low maintenance, I'll either read, sleep, or stare out the window. I always have correct change for anything I buy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like what's happening to them. But on the other hand the job market has changed for the industry as a whole. It's something I've faced in my career choice, fortunately I've found a good company. I've seen members of my family being in a field for 20+ years, only to have to start over.

I just don't think striking is the answer. In theory they could collapse the company. Then no one would have a job and would have to start over. To me that's selfish on their behalf.

just my
 twocents 



If it ain't broke, DON'T touch it!!!!
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 7):
concept of seniority

Hold it! Not to drift off the topic but you are out of touch like a union in
TODAYS world. Seniority is not the buzz word. It's MERIT. That's what is
going on between unions and management today. Seniority is going the way
of the DC 6....out to pasture.

now back to the topic....
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineGoaliemn From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5403 times:

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 6):
The company did offer them terms, agreed to them, and signed a contract stating so. Now the company has thrown out the contract, and imposed fairly heavy wage cuts on the flight attendants.

Wasn't the FA contract up? I thought they were negotiating for a contract that had expired, so they didn't throw out a contract, they negotiated a new one and imposed it..

Nitpicky I know..


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
Ahhh new tactics, much like what the air traffic controllers did in 81! See, that is my problem, we just bring the company to a halt attitude really does suck, really does! Yes, flight attendants pay is for sure horrid and should be not as it is, but when you mention "bring the company to a halt", sure puts a sour note my desire to listen to the causes of the lengthy negotiations and makes me wonder what your next career is going to be!

When a company uses bankruptcy to negotiate terms of a new contract in bad faith while using the courts to protect the pay of executives I think the FAs have every right in the world to walk. When management acts they way they do I think they should be held accountable. There is a contract to provide labor to the airline. If negotiations are failing for an extended period of time there is no obligation of the labor supplier to continue to provide labor. Those represented in the labor contract have a right to walk away until the company comes to them to offer a better deal. The contract was voided. They are free to discontinue providing services.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 15):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 8):
It's attitudes like yours that make those of us who have to deal with you dislike serving you. The vast majority of customers are just fine. The 2% factor of poeple like you can make our lives pretty unpleasant.

Actually when I fly I'm very low maintenance,

Uh huh.

It's the ones who don't realize what jerks they are who are the biggest jerks of all.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
When a company uses bankruptcy to negotiate terms of a new contract in bad faith while using the courts to protect the pay of executives

As was pointed out to you before, the court is not protecting the executives pay, only their separation payment if they lose their job.

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
They are free to discontinue providing services.

That is right, and the company is free to not take them back.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 20):
That is right, and the company is free to not take them back.

That is correct. It will be interesting to see what happens.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12708 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
When a company uses bankruptcy to negotiate terms of a new contract in bad faith while using the courts to protect the pay of executives I think the FAs have every right in the world to walk.

They do have every right in the world to walk: it's called resignation.

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
They are free to discontinue providing services.

I think the judge disagrees with you.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 6):
1) Are you suggesting that NW should be able to just change the contract at will without agreement with the flight attendants ?

Yes, in bankruptcy, all prior contracts are subject to chance or cancellation. Including financial debts.

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 6):
2) The judge in this case felt it was not in the publics interest to have the Flight attendants strike, so he blocked it. I feel he should have blocked both the right to strike, but also the wage cuts until both sides can reach an agreement. It seems odd to allow NW to break the contract, impose wage cuts, but not allow the flight attendants to do anything about it

NWA is considered more important to the public interest (and creditors) than the flight attendant union. FAs have rights, but those rights are subordinate to the public interest.

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 6):
3) Don't get me wrong here, I believe that the flight attendant wages were unsustainable, but a contract is a contract. If you need to change it, then it is something that needs to be agreed upon by both parties. For NW to say that they will go out of business if the wage structure doesn't change is NW's problem, they agreed to this contract, and should live by it, not just cry foul when it no longer suits them.

Again, in bankruptcy, NW has the freedom to amend contracts. That is what bankruptcy protection is.

If someone holds a gun to your head and make you sign a contract, I wouldn't go blaming you for the ill wisdom of the contract later on. It is too bad people have to hurt each other this way and end up penniless.


User currently offlineCO767FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
Ahhh new tactics, much like what the air traffic controllers did in 81! See, that is my problem, we just bring the company to a halt attitude really does suck, really does!

So what is your "armchair" suggestion? How would you tell the F/A's to handle this situation? How would you tell NW Management to handle the situation?


25 Post contains images Charlienorth : NWA isn't in the public's best interest anymore
26 PresRDC : These are very good points that bear repeating. Every stakeholder in the company loses in a bankruptcy. NWA is not just tearing-up labor contracts, b
27 Jetjack74 : Our contract was expired, but the expired contract continues under the Railway Labour Agreement until a new is negotiated* Wrong, they do not, nor sh
28 MSPGUY : So let me get this straight...... Because I don't agree with the FA's striking, I'm a jerk when I travel?????
29 Indy : And if thousands of workers decide to walk off the job what is this judge going to do about it? About the only thing he can do is allow the company t
30 Supa7E7 : Actually union leaders have gone to jail as recently as last year over this type of action. Do you remember the NYC Transit Workers?
31 Aa757first : Plus, wasn't AA's pilot union heavily fined for their walkout after the Reno Air merger? I never really understood why airline jobs went solely on se
32 Indy : The transit workers didn't shut down an airline. They crippled a city. That is the difference between flight attendants and transit workers.
33 Ckfred : At the very least, Congress needs to amend the RLA to cover the issue of contracts voided by a bankruptcy court. But, maybe the time has come to get r
34 Revelation : Are you new at this? The judge can throw the leaders of the strike in jail, and can seize all assets and issue punative fines against the union. In e
35 LMP737 : I will tell what is illegal. Intentured servitude which in another post you seemed to endorse So basically you raised this way and don't have enough
36 LMP737 : People should also have the right to organize and negotiate for better wages, benefits etc. Wait a minute, they already do.
37 Jetdeltamsy : It's your stated opinoin that you think we are made up of overpaid, overeducated people. It's an attitude towards a profession that revolts me. You s
38 Lucky42 : Ahh not quite...I am non union now and we still have a seniority system but merit also does play into it where it does not generally at a union compa
39 Charger : So should stupidity. When your out in the working world for a while and get kicked around let's see if your opinion changes. Then you were brought up
40 AirNZ : Can someone pleae fully explain this type of thing to me? Why is it that if anyone disagrees with something in the US, many make this claim of it bei
41 SHUPirate1 : Not quite, but close. It's actually New York State law that states that public employees cannot strike, officially the Public Employees Fair Employme
42 Charger : I was close, but no cigar. Thanks for correcting me. I knew I read somewhere that there was a reason that they couldn't walk.
43 Jetdeltamsy : I see your point, but it's standard practice in big-company bankruptcies. I guess the board of directors and the bankruptcy judge feel that it's cruc
44 Indy : This is America. Nobody can be forced to work. If the workers refuse to honor the new contract the judge can't do anything about it. The best he can
45 Rdwelch : Is this like the PATCO situation in '81 with the ATCs and Reagan? Gus
46 IAHFLYR : Good question as I actually don't have a dog in the fight for sure, but how did you folks work our your issue with your company last year? Seemed to
47 AirCop : Somebody needs to review their United States history. Much of the standard of living enjoyed by Americans today was the result of union activity. Jus
48 TVNWZ : Seniority is a product of the unions. Not the companies. So, you should complain to the union about that messy seniority thingy. I am sure every airl
49 Post contains links Revelation : Some googling came up with the following quotes about the AA pilot's sick-out of 1999, from all things, a socialist web site! That bubble will burst
50 Goaliemn : You are correct. Indentured servitude is illegal and not happening here. I'm getting tired of this "indentured servitude" and "slave" terms thrown ar
51 Post contains images CO767FA : Amazing what comes out of peoples fingers when they are typing!!! You have won the 1st place ribbon at the county fair for the prize barnyard animal.
52 Post contains links LMP737 : You seem to be making an assumption as to what I was referring to when I made the comment. On another thread Squid proposed having the airlines lobby
53 PA201 : This entire topic is exhausting, as it is every time it comes up on this forum. As it is whenever I have to listen to the numerous flight attendants a
54 Bobnwa : PA201, An excellent post. I think you managed to explain the situation in simple terms.
55 Post contains links CO767FA : What years? What carrier? How did you break your "addiction"? The reports linked to this web site would seem to indicate your opinion isn't accurate:
56 L1011Lover : Oh of course, absolutely... and there are tons of people who do this between 5 and 6 times a month and fly more than 100 hours per month... Come on!!
57 PA201 : My point here is not to start a debate as to whether the FA job as hard or easy. It's about all this effort and energy being expended to shut down an
58 Gaut : Pardon my ignorance but does employees always have to ask court to strike or is it limited to certain activities? Gaut
59 CO767FA : First, please answer my previous questions regarding your F/A history. Regarding these posts: Promises = contractual agreement to carry passengers. NW
60 Goaliemn : Its limited to certain industries. Its covered by something called the "railway labor act" Airlines are part of it, since the move people and freight
61 SHUPirate1 : Goaliemn-Sorry, but this is the exact opposite. The union is stating that, because Northwest Airlines has flagrantly and completely violated the Rail
62 Post contains images AirCop : The purpose of unions was to negotiate contracts which allowed workers to keep their dignity, make a fair wage and help the company remain in the bla
63 Isitsafenow : If so, I guarantee you do not sit in a middle seat...you would be silver, gold or platinum and you know what that usually means. safe
64 CO767FA : Not if you are an employee commuting to work.
65 Charlienorth : I've worked at non-union airlines and seniority still is the standard... Like I've said before contract out the navy..maybe the Vietnames can do a be
66 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Minneapolis Star-Tribune NWA Flight Attendants Change Union Leadership http://www.startribune.com/535/story/843482.html
67 L1011Lover : Have you ever thought about the fact that there might be people who love this job, and don´t wanna get another job... becuase this is what they wann
68 L1011Lover : That´s what I would suggest! He should go and find a "real" career in "real" world before making these stupid, childish comments! No wonder he´s wi
69 Ckfred : If there is a time for the unions to try, it's now. The Democrats now control Congress, and George Bush doesn't like to veto bills. Besides, W. can't
70 Goaliemn : I was laid off from the tech field and wasn't able to find another job in the field, so I moved to another field for awhile. People may love their jo
71 Aa757first : Flight attendants can act professionally, but they aren't truly professionals. Professionals have a standard of procedures, training and licensure/ce
72 Post contains images A330323X : And you think that pilots' training and procedures don't vary from airline to airline just as much?
73 Squid : First of all, I work my butt off in the NAVY for very little money. I have been on deployments that have gone over the 6 month schedule by 3 months.
74 CO767FA : If you don't like the pay....get another job or a better education that leads to a better job! I'm sorry, but what I just typed is tossed around here
75 CO767FA : Thanks for reiterating my point (thinking before typing). F/A's in the US are certified by the FAA. Procedures for both cabin and flight crew are sta
76 CroCop : I agree, and say that the judge should allow a strike, they have wanted one for some time now. Let them see how it affects their airline.
77 Post contains links Aa757first : If you were to decide to quit flying for CO and get a job with say, UA, what would happen to your flight attendant license? When you went to work for
78 CroCop : A license? They dont have those, F/A's dont work like that.
79 A330323X : So I see you ignored my point--that the pilots would also have to start UA training from scratch if they moved over there from CO.
80 CroCop : Ah, you were making a point, sorry.
81 LMP737 : By the sound of it Squid you don't particularly like someone who knows nothing of what you do commenting on how much money you should make or how "ea
82 Post contains images Charlienorth : Nobody forced you to join,so don't complain.
83 Squid : I don't complain. If I didn't like the NAVY I wouldn't stay in. It's not for everyone but it suit's me. But for the past, Oh I don't know, 5 years yo
84 LMP737 : Squid: I was hoping that some of us got through to you and that you would think a bit more before you wnet spouting off about what people make. I gues
85 Charlienorth : At this point in time it's not about the pay,it's stopping the downward spiral.
86 EWRCabincrew : So what of pilots? Their training, while to get a license is roughly the same, company policy sets them apart. Bankers? Banking with or at a financia
87 Aa757first : Sorry, the replies were collapsed. But doesn't, say, a B737 type certification carry from United to Continental? Do they have to get a whole new Airm
88 L1011Lover : So what??? What´s your point??? If I get furloughed and won´t be able to find another job in the airline idustry I´d sure search a job somewhere e
89 L1011Lover : EXCELLENT!!!
90 Goaliemn : My comment was yes, you can find another job. you aren't indentured to whatever airline you work for. If all the FAs left, the company would either g
91 Charlienorth : A type rating is a type rating,but they would still have go through new-hire training in the aircraft.
92 L1011Lover : And one more time, one more question... What makes you so sure that the flight attendant position isn´t already "THE" new job people moved on to???
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