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Fiji Military To Enforce Plans At 12am - Aviation?  
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3414 times:
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Hello.

Just watched 3 news.

Apparantley the Fijian Military leader didn't get what he wanted at the talks today in Wellington and he is on his way back to Fiji as we speak.

At 12am local time Fiji so 1am New Zealand time, the Fijian Military is to start to enforce some of their projected plans. I am not quite sure about the situation at present but apparantley NZ has some vessels off the coast of Fiji which are ready to evacuate foreign nationals if needed.

Apparantley the focus will be on Suva but not much is known of what will be done. Road blocks were mentioned by reporters.


Just wondering what this will mean for Air Pacific and Fijian Aviation as a whole. I know leading carriers like Air New Zealand and Korean Air have flights to Fiji but only to Nadi. FJ fly AKL and SYD to Suva so what will happen to these flights if a ku goes ahead?

Troubled times ahead....

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

I know lots of people who have long refused to visit Fiji because the current government took power in the 2000 terrorist coup. The army is seeking to stop them from pardoning their racist, terrorist buddies, and , who knows, a coup might restore non-racist democracy and allow tourism, not terrorism, to thrive.

User currently offlineSlovacek747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

Just got back from Fiji 2 days ago.. I didn't feel threatened at all. By the way NZ is behind Fiji in time, not ahead.

User currently offlineNirvarma From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 1):
I know lots of people who have long refused to visit Fiji because the current government took power in the 2000 terrorist coup. The army is seeking to stop them from pardoning their racist, terrorist buddies, and , who knows, a coup might restore non-racist democracy and allow tourism, not terrorism, to thrive.

If I am not mistaken, democratic elections were held just this year in which the ruling party was elected therefore your assertion of this being an illegitimate government may not be accurate.

A coup at this stage would do more harm to the country than good.

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 2):
By the way NZ is behind Fiji in time, not ahead.

Are you sure about that?

Regards
NV

[Edited 2006-11-29 08:34:46]

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 3):
Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 2):
By the way NZ is behind Fiji in time, not ahead.
Are you sure about that?

Fiji is definately 1 hour behind nz....



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1637 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

Apparently Australia has lost a Blackhawk helicopter in an 'unspecified incident' near Fiji.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6194232.stm



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2989 times:
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Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 5):
Apparently Australia has lost a Blackhawk helicopter in an 'unspecified incident' near Fiji.

Oh god, that'll give the military even more reason to bad mouth the 'invaders.'

Quoting Koruman (Reply 1):
who knows, a coup might restore non-racist democracy and allow tourism, not terrorism, to thrive.

Mm, non racism huh? From what I gather it is the Fijian Military who are being racist towards the european and indian communities. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, tourism is doing very well in Fiji under the current government. FJ's recent order of 787's reflects that.


User currently offlineSlovacek747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2938 times:

I'm sorry.. I was thinkin about Australian time.

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

From the New Zealand Herald:
Fiji army return to barracks amid coup fears [+audio]

UPDATED 9.55am Thursday November 30, 2006
By Malakai Veisamasama

SUVA - Fijian troops returned to barracks on Thursday morning after taking control of parts of the capital in night-time exercises in what some had feared could have been the opening salvo of a military coup.

As dawn broke over Suva, residents said the 2,000 soldiers who had secured strategic locations around the South Pacific capital, and fired flares and mortar rounds, were no longer on the streets.

Military roadside checkpoints erected soon after midnight for the three hour exercises had also disappeared.


"Its just like a normal day. There are no soldiers on the streets," said one resident who worked at a local radio station.

Fears of a fourth coup in Fiji in 20 years rose overnight as troops stretched along the waterfront past the governor's residence and the national parliament and secured utilities such as telephone and electricity headquart


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

No planeman, quite the opposite.

Previous military coups had an anti-Indian agenda but this time around the military is basically the defender of equal rights for the Indians. The current government came to power on the back of George Speight's overthrow in 2000 of a Labour government with an Indian PM, and his brother is part of the current government which has sought to pardon all the 2000 terrorists.

Fiji has a government "elected" by a fraudulent system comparable to "democracy" in Botha's South Africa. It works with the Great Council of Chiefs (surprise surprise, not an Indian among them) to conspire to ensure that ethnic Indians whose families have lived there for a century or more can't actually buy land. The instigators of the 2000 coup have conveniently never been identified. So who benefited? Oh, that would be the government.

By and large I find military coups abhorrent. But many Fijians seem to have no-one left to turn to for justice, and it's a pretty stark picture when the ethnic Indians, who formed a majority of the population before the earlier military coups which damaged them, are actually seeing the military as their only protectors.

And yes, there is a link with civil aviation. The ethnic Fijians own all the land the resorts are built on, but the ethnic Indians are the people who make the tourist trade work. As long as the status quo persists, tourism (and air travel) is basically hobbled.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2808 times:
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Bad news,

Just saw on TV3, Head of the Fijian Military, Frank Bainimarama, has officially told Prime Minister Laisenia Qarase and the MP's to clear their desks and that he is taking over. In other words, it is the beginning of the 5th ku for Fiji in 20 years.

Bad, bad times lie ahead, will NZ or FJ be cancelling any flights? Maybe not NAN but I can see SUV flights affected.

Colin.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

One last thing planemanofnz.

There are basically three issues which will or will not provoke a coup.

First, as I said, is the government's intent to commit treason by unconditionally pardoning the perpetrators of the 2000 coup - which the army believes was commissioned by the current PM and his cronies. (In that last coup the terrorists held the government hostage in disgusting conditions for several weeks).

Secondly there is the issue of the Australian chap who is the police commissioner, who seems to want to charge the army chief with sedition rather than the Prime Minister with treason.

Thirdly, the issue that affects aviation. The government seeks to invoke even more racist laws, forbidding ethnic Indians (40% of the population, 70% of the wealth of the nation) from owning coastal land, a law aimed at ensuring that all profits from tourism end up in the pockets of the ethnic Fijians, and more specifically, the Prime Minister's friends and family. Where do tourists want to stay? Beach resorts. And the current government is attempting to legislate, as in apartheid South Africa, to ensure that only ethnic Fijians can own such land.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2651 times:
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Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The government seeks to invoke even more racist laws, forbidding ethnic Indians (40% of the population, 70% of the wealth of the nation) from owning coastal land, a law aimed at ensuring that all profits from tourism end up in the pockets of the ethnic Fijians, and more specifically, the Prime Minister's friends and family. Where do tourists want to stay? Beach resorts. And the current government is attempting to legislate, as in apartheid South Africa, to ensure that only ethnic Fijians can own such land.

Well, they were the government formed with the majority of the votes casted by the majority of people.

But how dare the military commander judge whether or not the people are allowed to vote! I mean he said and I qoute, "There will not be elections in Fiji for some time to come."

This is ludicrous. You say Koruman about tourism and the money ending up in Fijians pockets, but isn't that better than no tourists coming at all because some military guy thinks what he thinks? It's sad to see Fiji controlled now from such dictators. Obviously the UN thinks so too because now all Fijian troops are not allowed in the peace forces for the UN.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2643 times:
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Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
Secondly there is the issue of the Australian chap who is the police commissioner, who seems to want to charge the army chief with sedition rather than the Prime Minister with treason.

Perhaps there is something in what you say but the Australian "chap" who is Police commisioner and his family have fled the country due to death threats... were these from the recognised government whom he had failed to charge with treason or from the military leaders you hold in such esteem?



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2639 times:

Details of the helicopter crash here. Accident on landing.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1800782.htm

Australia and New Zealand have four or five 'peacekeeping forces' deployed in the South Pacific at the moment - the Solomons, East Timor, Tonga, now Fiji. There will inevitably be a drain on lives, even if it's only through accidents.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

I don't know this for a fact, but I'd guess, that 99.5% of the passengers that Air Pacific (Fiji) carries to the U.S.A., that originate in Fiji, are Ethic Indians.

This I do know, most Indians were brought to Fiji against their will....as forced labourers, to do the work the native population refused, and still refuses to do.



Delete this User
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

How can anyone honestly say that Fiji is a democracy and that the head of the armed forces is any less entitled to act than the PM? Sounds good, but totally untrue.

A few inconvenient facts before I get flamed....

1) Only 25 out of 71 seats in the "democratic" parliament are elected democratically: the rest are divided up on racial grounds, favouring indigenous Fijians. Worse still, in the Senate, out of 32 seats no fewer than 14 seats are selected (not elected) by the Great Council of Chiefs plus 9 by the PM, so again the sham democracy is a dressed-up dictatorship by ethnic Fijians.

2) The Supreme Court has sought multiple times to compel the PM to comply with the law that every party with at least 8 seats be represented in cabinet: Prime Minister Qarase has failed to comply, and therefore his legitimacy as PM is highly questionable.

I am as appalled by the idea of armed forces running a country as anyone. But we must all understand that the current situation is far from democratic and is actually an ethnic kleptocracy.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2552 times:
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Ah Koruman.
I see you push your version of the situation but ignore my question about who was making the death threats.. so I will answer it!

Commodore Bainimarama, that is who! If the Chief of the defence force needs to make death threats agains Law enforcement officers then he has no more right to seek power than the water rat's scurrying amongst the scraps on the Suva waterfront.

Whilst Fiji may only be a partial democracy at the moment and could certainly do with some improvement in that regard, the good commodore's intentions are quite transparent in that he has no plans for that situation to change.
His only intention is to change the name on the door!!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

Before getting back to aviation, I thought that I had made clear that I find both sides in Fiji almost equally abhorrent, but that we needed not to just simplify this into a good democracy versus nasty army equation.

I have happy memories of holidays on Natadola Beach (thanks to Air New Zealand, CP Air and Air Pacific) but I find all sides in politics there to be so repugnant that I avoid the country now, as I feel as unwilling to spend my money there as in Botha's South Africa.

And people who have planned vacations when 3 coups, plus another potential one, occur must be cautious about visiting. Yes, Nadi and the islands are quiet, but would you holiday in a place you find morally repugnant, be it seventies Russia, thirties Germany or modern Fiji?

If only Fiji would have a real one-man one-vote democracy then the ethnic Indians might return and tourism could grow.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2488 times:
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Quoting Koruman (Reply 18):
be it seventies Russia, thirties Germany or modern Fiji?

How can you even compare what is happening in Fiji to Nazi Germany! There is no genocide going on, is there? No war being made on international countries?

Quoting Koruman (Reply 18):
If only Fiji would have a real one-man one-vote democracy then the ethnic Indians might return and tourism could grow.

Oh give me a break. New Zealand and Australia don't really have a one man one vote system as we are still under British Rule with Govenor General's controlling every single law that is being passed!

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 17):
If the Chief of the defence force needs to make death threats agains Law enforcement officers then he has no more right to seek power than the water rat's scurrying amongst the scraps on the Suva waterfront.

Exactly. He contradicts everything he says. I mean it was only a few years ago when he helped to get the current PM into power and now he says he regrets it. Boohoo. What happens if he 'accidentally' makes another mistake when his control starts on Monday? Are we all supposed to turn a blind eye?

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
Only 25 out of 71 seats in the "democratic" parliament are elected democratically: the rest are divided up on racial grounds, favouring indigenous Fijians.

So? New Zealand has same system where Native Maori's have the RIGHT to have a certain number of seats in Parliament. I don't know about your country Koruman but I guess we can all look at history and see that. Also, ask yourself Koruman, what is the ratio of the population in Fiji? 60% - 40% Fijian - Indian is what you said, so those remaining 46 seats represent 65% of all seats - basically the population of the Native's.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2452 times:
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Apologies to the forum for keeping this thread away from the Civ/Av focus it should have.

I am a little bent out of shape that this grubby little brawl in Fiji has already cost the lives of two young Australian servicemen and was perhaps allowing that bitterness to show.

Once again apologies.

Chris



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Actually, I'm a Kiwi living in Australia.

Until a couple of coups back Indo-Fijians outnumbered Melanesians by around 51-46. Unfortunately, whereas our Maori seats don't really influence the balance of power, the fact that ethnic Fijians control 23/32 of the Senate totally distorts power.

The Australian and NZ governments are trying to support good governance and constitutional law in the Pacific, and for fear of being seen to set a precedent are propping up a government in Fiji which basically overthrew the government in 2000 and has won two "elections" by virtue of a democratic system comparable to PW Botha's eighties constitution which somehow enfranchaised everyone except blacks. Does anyone really believe that Qarase (the PM) was not the yet-to-be-identified person who ordered the bloody 2000 coup which culminated in his becoming the Prime Minister and saw the elected government held hostage for weeks? (I pose that as a question, not an assertion).

And I deliberately wrote thirties Germany, not forties Germany. We have a government in Fiji which uses legislation to prevent a minority from proper representation and excludes them from property and land ownership. There are no forties style death camps: they don't need them, because they have already driven nearly 10% of the population into exile to get away from discrimination.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2425 times:

Well the coup is now postponed till monday because the Comander wanted to watch a rugby match.

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2402 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 14):
Australia and New Zealand have four or five 'peacekeeping forces' deployed in the South Pacific at the moment - the Solomons, East Timor, Tonga, now Fiji. There will inevitably be a drain on lives, even if it's only through accidents.

New Zealand and Australia have no peace keeping forces in Fiji ..NZ has some armed forces but that is only to protect the NZ embassy only

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Oh give me a break. New Zealand and Australia don't really have a one man one vote system as we are still under British Rule with Govenor General's controlling every single law that is being passed!

Yes but its a power they have that as far as i know has never been used at least not in NZ and if it was was used wrongly it would be the beginning of a the end of the governor generals and links to the UK ..To say we are under British Rule is stretching the words a bit.. Yes the Queen does have the power to decline laws and all but she doesnt !!

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 19):
So? New Zealand has same system where Native Maori's have the RIGHT to have a certain number of seats in Parliament. I don't know about your country Koruman but I guess we can all look at history and see that. Also, ask yourself Koruman, what is the ratio of the population in Fiji? 60% - 40% Fijian - Indian is what you said, so those remaining 46 seats represent 65% of all seats - basically the population of the Native's.

Yes the Maori population does have its own seats in the NZ parliament but its only like 6-7 % of all seats in parliament and all Maori have to choose if they want to vote in a maori or general electorate . So in the end their is some power in those seats like every seat in NZ has..But also in NZ there is a balancing factor in the way we vote in our MP'S so whatever % of the total vote Maori and general electorates will be the % of MP's in parliament ..Its a MMP election like in Germany.. So this also helps to cancel out the influence in those seats also to a certain degree..

Hopefully the coup wont bring on any hardship to the people of Fiji.. They are some of the loveliest people in the world ..All that country needs is some stability in order for it to grow ..Everytime it seems to get that a coup seems to take place to bring it back down..



"Pride of the pacific"
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