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Air NZ 744's Not Going To AI  
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

NZ's plan to send 2 744's on wet lease have fallen through, not sure what this means now for the 744's but this will not be happening now.

Also expect something soon on the long term plan and replacement of the 744's.


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43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
replacement of the 744's.

Nooo, stop them please!!! I need that extra 2" of leg room on long-haul.

I'll miss them sorely Sad


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

So what is the plan now? Maybe they will venture into South America which is currently ETOPS restricted? EZE? GIG? GRU? Hopefully the replacement of the 744's will include a mix of 747-8's and 77W's.

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12221 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6185 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 1):

Since I'm short I enjoyed being able to fully stretch out on the B744 a few months back.

I'm thinking of an order for the B773s


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9189 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6182 times:

I suppose they will order the B 747-8 to replace the B 747-400 as Ralph Norris mentioned. Maybe some B 777-300ERs too.

User currently offlineN751PR From Japan, joined May 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

So it's not going to PR nor AI... Where in the bloody hell is it going now?


"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Ralph NOrris is gone mate,

the future outlook of the airline is completely different now! Visions change im afraid!


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6094 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
I suppose they will order the B 747-8 to replace the B 747-400 as Ralph Norris mentioned. Maybe some B 777-300ERs too.

At this stage (we all know Air NZ can change their mind) we will be be getting 748's. My guess is it will be 773's and more 787's. Something will be out soon as we have to be quick to get something around the 2013 mark as you can see by this article here

Quoting N751PR (Reply 5):
So it's not going to PR nor AI... Where in the bloody hell is it going now?

I guess we will either look at a new option. We could put it back on as NZ1 and NZ2 but using the 777 saves a lot of money.



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User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6075 times:

Okay they've got 2 744s right? We'll I have an idea, and I'm almost certain it will work.

Okay here goes. Base them at MEL.
Then start flying MEL-JNB non-stop.
Why JNB? There is a significant exodus of white south africans now living in Australia and new zealand, creating a huge demand for flights between the region and Australia. Currently, QF have the market stitched up, and their daily SYD-JNB flight is always full, and always at very high prices. Many pax are thus forced to fly all the way to Singapore Kuala Lumpur and now EVEN DUBAI in order to get resonable prices or even just a seat. These flights could be operated on a triangle basis too, with Air NZ being able to sell the domestic leg (as it has the right to fly domestically inside australia... might be some staffing issues(maybe need an AU based crew and possibly even operating certificate) but should be too hard for them to activate their longtime right to fly inside Australia. Say in conjunction with brisbane and sydney on alternate days. They should be timed to connect with inbound pax from NZ and there should then be signifcant feed inside Australia, and significant feed in NZ.

Also, air new zealand needs to get its act together and use some of its Australian traffic beyond rights... SQ would Kill for these rights but NZ just doesn't seem to be able to compete aggressively enough. After all, QF isn't exactly gonna drop its LAX-AKL flight anytime soon are they?

[Edited 2006-11-29 09:22:34]

User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

Maybe trade-in or sell those 744 for some cash to buy new 777-300ERs?

User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 8):
Then start flying MEL-JNB non-stop.

I would like SA as a destination, but Rob has been very clear in the one new destination per year. They have HKG LHR and AKL PVG this year so I think this will not happen. The lease was for a short term so they may having something in the pipeline for the next couple of years.



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User currently onlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5993 times:

I flew on NZ 1 the other week, and 32inc on the T7 really sucks! 26 hrs is a long time to go if your tall, tho look out for some more t7's being ordered soon, think the 748i is out nz like 2 better then 4


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5959 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 10):
I would like SA as a destination, but Rob has been very clear in the one new destination per year. They have HKG LHR and AKL PVG this year so I think this will not happen. The lease was for a short term so they may having something in the pipeline for the next couple of years.

He's either doing that to try and keep team members calm and/or keep expectations under control, or a very close minded twit who then shouldn't be in charge of any significantly large organisation. IF THE OPPORTUNITY IS THERE, and nobody in the market is yet meeting it, then a smart company moves in the close that gap before somebody else gets a chance. Seriously, if this is his attitude, then I think its time for change. Especially since they're aren't exactly that many expansion possibilities for dear old NZ. I'd be taking what i can while i still can if i were them, especially if the aircraft are there anyway.


User currently offlineKiwiflyer791 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5947 times:

Word on the street is expect an order for up to 12 767-300ERS, they are looking at trying to get some early delivery slots so are busy sorting those sorts of issues out.
They also want to firm up another 6 787-9s.
However they also say these decisions are very volatile and subject to change so really everyone has to just wait and see.


User currently offlineV2fix From New Zealand, joined Mar 2003, 368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

The new routes for this year were announced some time ago -

Shanghai on the 14th October 2005
London via Hong Kong on the 5th April 2006

The operational logistics for a new route means planning starts well in advance of any public annoucement (and Shanghai was rumoured on A.Net as a destination many months before the formal release)

So far, such rumours have not surfaced - which suggests that next years new route is not a new route - but probably an extension of an existing service.

The new London service was announced a mere 7 months before its started. So if Air NZ is going to do a new route next year I believe that it will simply be an extension of an current route.

Personally, given what has been stated publicly, I would expect to see the spare 744s supplement an extension, say 3 times a week (which seem to be normal practise), of an existing route to a new destination.

My personal bet is :

AKL-PNG-Europe (with the cheapest and possibly least risky option) being LHR, otherwise Frankfurt .

But I dont know of the freedom rights that Air NZ hold to fly from Germany. They hold rights for Germany to US - used in the old FRA-LAX service.



742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 12):
He's either doing that to try and keep team members calm and/or keep expectations under control, or a very close minded twit who then shouldn't be in charge of any significantly large organisation. IF THE OPPORTUNITY IS THERE, and nobody in the market is yet meeting it, then a smart company moves in the close that gap before somebody else gets a chance. Seriously, if this is his attitude, then I think its time for change. Especially since they're aren't exactly that many expansion possibilities for dear old NZ. I'd be taking what i can while i still can if i were them, especially if the aircraft are there anyway.

Anyone who tried growing a small airline that fast would be mad!
Let's say PVG and HKGLON were not working as well as expected, the last thing you need to extra new routes doing the same thing. Imagine in one year starting
AKL-PVG
HKG-LON
AKL-GRU
AKL-BJS
AKL-BOM

All didn't do as well as expected... what would be the outcome (I know this is over the top but you can see the point i'm trying to make).

Quoting Kiwiflyer791 (Reply 13):
Word on the street is expect an order for up to 12 767-300ERS

???? 767-300ER?????



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User currently offlineKiwiflyer791 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

S

Quoting TG992 (Reply 15):
???? 767-300ER?????

Sorry mean 777-300ERs


User currently onlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3187 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5803 times:

What about flying SYD-LAX with a 747, maybe United won't like it that much.


Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineV2fix From New Zealand, joined Mar 2003, 368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 17):
What about flying SYD-LAX with a 747, maybe United won't like it that much.

That could be possible and would utilise the 2 spare 747 on a daily service (which I think you would have to offer for this sector). Maybe with some clever sheduling AKL-SYD-LAX return or onto AKL-MEL and then the reverse would be possible.

UA probably would not like it and may be prompted to return to LAX-AKL sector. It was rumoured that the reson that left was deal done with Air NZ for them to leave SYD-LAX to them.



742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

Quoting V2fix (Reply 14):
The new London service was announced a mere 7 months before its started. So if Air NZ is going to do a new route next year I believe that it will simply be an extension of an current route.

There is rumour of something "new" next october.. watch this space come Apr perhaps?

Quoting V2fix (Reply 14):
AKL-PNG-Europe (with the cheapest and possibly least risky option) being LHR, otherwise Frankfurt .

But I dont know of the freedom rights that Air NZ hold to fly from Germany. They hold rights for Germany to US - used in the old FRA-LAX service.

Rob has said they have options on PVG to Eruope. This will become daily, maybe NZ1/2 might go back to 744 on some days?



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User currently offlineNZ747 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 967 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 7):
At this stage (we all know Air NZ can change their mind) we will be be getting 748's.

I was told by a very senior Air New Zealand [training captain/ fleet type captain/ pilot selection captain] less than a month ago that the 748's have been rulled out at this stage and they are very close to ordering the B777-300ER.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting NZ747 (Reply 20):
that the 748's have been rulled out at this stage and they are very close to ordering the B777-300ER.

That does not surprise me. Geoffrey Thomas, on another site, said that a number of airline CEO's that he had spoken with were looking to the -300ER to maintain pretty much the premium seat count of the -400ER and with the reduced Y class seat count , improve the Y class yield . I can see NZ in that category.


User currently offlineKiwiflyer791 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 17):
What about flying SYD-LAX with a 747, maybe United won't like it that much.

Forget it, the Air NZ 747s can not do this without a significant payload reduction making it uneconmic. They added a hell of alot of wieght with the upgrade something like 4.5 tons.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6438 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 19):
Rob has said they have options on PVG to Eruope. This will become daily, maybe NZ1/2 might go back to 744 on some days?

I really hope so! What a shame if they don't get the 748.. But the 77W is a beautiful aircraft.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 11):
I flew on NZ 1 the other week, and 32inc on the T7 really sucks! 26 hrs is a long time to go if your tall, tho look out for some more t7's being ordered soon, think the 748i is out nz like 2 better then 4

Scare tactics to get you into Y+  Silly



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5372 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 17):
What about flying SYD-LAX with a 747, maybe United won't like it that much.

As Kiwiflyer791 said no can do anymore. PVT's etc make the weight to much for this sector.

Quoting NZ747 (Reply 20):
I was told by a very senior Air New Zealand [training captain/ fleet type captain/ pilot selection captain] less than a month ago that the 748's have been rulled out at this stage and they are very close to ordering the B777-300ER.

This is true, they are doing something soon because orders are so strong with boeing. They maybe ordered soon but don't expect to see them before 2013.



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25 SunriseValley : But they have -400ER leases running out around 2010. Don't you think the type will be on the scene earlier than 2013?
26 Koruman : I think the airline would now swap 777-300ERs for 747s tomorrow if it could get hold of them, in spite of spending millions of dollars upgrading the 7
27 United Airline : They can always change their mind...... I expect the B 747-400s to stay for sometime. No confirmed news yet so I will wait and see
28 Koruman : I'd just like to add that while Air NZ is only adding one or two new destinations per year (eg Shanghai), that doesn't mean that there is any great ri
29 Planemanofnz : No way. NZ need to keep one route to Japan at least and downgrade it to maybe 4 weekly. At the moment I think KIX is sort of sabotaging NRT or the ot
30 Koruman : Singapore and Papeete-LAX have a lot more reason to be operated than AKL-NRT or AKL-KIX!
31 Cchan : The NZ tourism will be hit hard if Japan routes are dropped altogether, so it is rather unlikely that NZ will drop both KIX and NRT.
32 TG992 : Tourists from Japan are down. 15 years ago NZ made "all" it's money from Japan now it's in serious trouble. NZ airshares with JL now. Hmm why have NZ
33 United Airline : I don't think they should drop Japan since there are many Japanese visiting NZ every year. Queenstown, Christchurch etc etc......
34 777ER : From what I've heard possible orders are 2 x 787-9 and 4 x 773ER or 6 x 773ER. An order can be expected early december
35 ZKSUJ : Great He didn't say rulled out. He sayed "The 744s will be replaced by 773ERs and as for teh 748s, We won't know and we have to wait and see"
36 TG992 : Numbers are dropping however, it will not all go but flights will be reduced at some point i think. This should have read At this stage (we all know
37 6thfreedom : The Australia-South Africa market is going through a boom... a bit like Australia-South America. NZ will launch AKL-MEL-JNB, and they will do quite n
38 2wingtips : Interesting comment. I wonder if you will be saying the same thing this time next year? I completely disagree, but that would be getting completely o
39 Nzrich : Well untill A passenger airline buys the Aircraft it is a Dog as a passenger aircraft . At the moment only freighters have been sold .. As soon as it
40 NZ107 : Plenty of 777 and 787 unidentified orders and no 747 unidentified orders. Looks grim for those like me wanting the 748.. Would you extend it to anywh
41 Cchan : Even if there are a few airlines buying passenger 748s, it is not a wise move to buy them. Just think about how hard it is when it comes to the time
42 Koruman : Exactly. In spite of the huge investment on new interiors for the 747s, the best long term option is to replace them with 777-300ERs as soon as possib
43 SunriseValley : Three of the four that they own are 1990 and 1991 built units. The oldest two leased units were built in 1994 and 1995 and it was one of these that t
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