Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Lufthansa Mulls Purchase Of Around 15 Boeing 747-8  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14246 times:

I know there are several threads about this topic and it has been discussed to death over the last year but I have just found this article that I wanted to share.
I also wanted to open a new thread for this because the last LH longhaul order thread already had close to 100 replies.

Quote:
German flag carrier Lufthansa is considering buying around 15 Boeing 747-8 long-haul jets, a source close to the airline said.
The airline wants to fill a gap in its fleet between the Airbus A340-600 and A380 aircraft.
In September, Lufthansa ordered 35 Airbus aircraft comprising five A319s, ten A320s and 15 A321s with an option over a further 30 aircraft.


http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...ichten-2006-11/artikel-7388839.asp

[Edited 2006-11-30 21:13:08]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14173 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Lufthansa is considering buying around 15 Boeing 747-8 long-haul jets

So if they go ahead with the order, it would not be for the capacity, since they have A380 for that?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14120 times:

The article doesn't mention, what has already been mentioned here before, the possibility of an order for the 77W.

A bit surprising IMO.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13991 times:

Nobody knows what they're going to order so they're being linked with everything (cept the A340).

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13991 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
The article doesn't mention, what has already been mentioned here before, the possibility of an order for the 77W.

A bit surprising IMO.

The article also did not mention the A330 as part of the Airbus order....
LH was evaluating what aircraft is the better choice as a 747-400 replacement for them the 777-300ER or the 747-8I. It seems now more and more that the decison is done in favor for the 747-8I.
If this rumor is true I would also guess that Boeing offered them a good deal to finally get a launch customer.
Regarding the 777 I would not rule out a freighter order but as to now the 747-8F with its nose door might make more sense.

[Edited 2006-11-30 21:28:33]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13871 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
The article also did not mention the A330 as part of the Airbus order....
LH was evaluating what aircraft is the better choice as a 747-400 replacement for them the 777-300ER or the 747-8I. It seems now more and more that the decison is done now in favor for the 747-8I.
If this rumor is true I would also guess that Boeing offered them a good deal to finally get a launch customer.
Regarding the 777 I would not rule out a freighter order but as to now the 747-8F with its nose door ability might make more sense.

A few carriers have gone with the 773-ER instead of the 748I because they didn't need the extra capacity. The 773-ER has lower trip costs than the 744, and decreasing some seats should in theory increase yields.

LH's situation is different..judging from what they are stating, they need a plane which fill in the gap between their A346's and A380's....the 773-ER wouldn't do the trick.... no 

I don't see them going with any 773-ER..maybe some 777F's......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13851 times:

But why doesn't LH also go with the 77W for expansion? From what I heard, they need more planes, so maybe a combined order of 747-8Is for trunk routes and as gapfiller between the A346 and A380, and an order for 77Ws as partial 74M replacement plus for expansion could be a possibility.

User currently onlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13624 times:

G´day

Well, the "News" is from Finanznachrichten, not exactly the most accurate and reliable publication in this world, even less so if aviation is the subject.

I´m not saying LH is not considering to buy 747-8´s, the choice of suitable freighter aircraft is rather limited. If outsize freight is of importance, the 747-8 is just about the only choice, for other freight and to supplement the MD 11 freighters the B 777 and A 380 freighters may offer better economics. With the former being similar in size to the MD 11 who still have years of life left before they need replacement something larger may be desirable. Not to forget politics/negotiation tactics, some orders HAVE to go to Boeing. With the A 320 series for narrowbodies certainly and the A 350 for mid size long range likely to be the mainstay of the future fleet, not much is left for the B company. So guess!

Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5732 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13466 times:

No word on the 787 either though it has been rumored that the 787 is favored.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

As a frequent LH customer, I hope they choose something smaller because I would appreciate additional frequency.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
The 773-ER has lower trip costs than the 744, and decreasing some seats should in theory increase yields.

If decreasing the number of seats didn't raise the RASM, it would mean that every passenger within each cabin was paying the same fare.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13278 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
No word on the 787 either though it has been rumored that the 787 is favored.

No word on the A350 either as the decision whether they order the 787 or the A350 is postponed. Also keep in mind that this article is no official announcement and we will likely hear more about the up-coming fleet renewal plans when LH is officially announcing this order - if it is actually going to happen.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5732 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13176 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
No word on the A350 either as the decision whether they order the 787 or the A350 is postponed. Also keep in mind that this article is no official announcement and we will likely hear more about the up-coming fleet renewal plans when LH is officially announcing this order - if it is actually going to happen.

Well if Airbus does launch the A350 tomorrow, as had been rumored, then the A350 vs 787 contest might be decided at LH fairly quickly. I would think that LH already has a lot of the technical and pricing details from Boeing and probably the same from Airbus at this point.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30572 posts, RR: 84
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13089 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

As Jacobin777 noted in Reply 5, LH already has a "77W" class airframe in the A346. No, it's not as efficient, but it's not junk, either. And with such a large fleet, LH may very well feel that adding on 748I's would be prudent as it would allow them maximum flexibility to service destinations year-round: A388/748 for the "high season" and A346 for the "low season". So when the Northern Hemisphere traffic is light due to winter, send the A388/748 "down south" and use A346s. Reverse for when the Northern Hemisphere traffic is heavy due to summer.

Also, as PanAm_DC10 noted in - http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3122452/ - LH could use the 748I's for a decade or so in passenger service, then convert them to freighters.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
But why doesn't LH also go with the 77W for expansion? From what I heard, they need more planes, so maybe a combined order of 747-8Is for trunk routes and as gap-filler between the A346 and A380, and an order for 77Ws as partial 74M replacement plus for expansion could be a possibility.

I really think LH feels the A346 is "good enough" to hold them over until the A350XWB-1000 or Y3 (or an improved 77W) can enter service.


User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12905 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Also, as PanAm_DC10 noted in - http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3122452/ - LH could use the 748I's for a decade or so in passenger service, then convert them to freighters.

If you are referring to reply 13 in that thread, I believe PanAm_DC10 is talking about converting orders for 748i's to 748f's and visa versa after they've been ordered in case the airlines needs has changed.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30572 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12872 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Brendows (Reply 13):
If you are referring to reply 13 in that thread, I believe PanAm_DC10 is talking about converting orders for 748i's to 748f's and visa versa after they've been ordered in case the airlines needs has changed.

True. I was actually the one who proposed flying 748I's for a bit then converting them to 748F's later in reply.  blush  Been a long week up here in the Pacific Northwest.  Wink


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12861 times:

LH is an ardent lover of quads. The quadness of the 748 is exceptional.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12797 times:

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15):
The quadness of the 748 is exceptional.

??? I would have thought the quadness (is that a malpropism?) of the B747-8 is exactly the same as that of other quads and therefore absolutely unexceptional. What am I missing?


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12584 times:

748i between 346 (EK:773ER) and 388.

LH´s statement sounds exacly like CEO of EK said earlier this year.

Time will tell.

Micke//  Smile



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12508 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 17):
748i between 346 (EK:773ER) and 388.

That statement just made my day.

LH´s statement sounds exacly like CEO of EK said earlier this year.

I think that was Boeing's hope, Airbus built the niche high capacity A380, they hoped to build a niche 748 to fill the space between the large single deckers (A346/773ER) and the A380, instead of head to head. Personally, I would sooner see 2 772/A343s go instead of 1 A380, or 2 787/767/A332s go instead of 1 748 and have more frequencies, but that's just me.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12474 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
malpropism

it's malapropism.... Wink



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12109 times:

Good news indeed. I also believe that they will go for the B 747-8 to replace their B 747-400s as planned. Hopefully they will get more than 15 eventually and will include options

The B 747-400/747-8 have lower seat mile cost than the B 777.


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12020 times:

Just to make note:

Ordering the A340-600 (or 777-300ER) and A380 does not rule out an order for the 747-8i.

A340-600 - 360
747-8i - ~450
A380 - 555

As one can see, neither of the 3 aircraft compete with each other. In fact, they are roughly 100 seats apart. Since they do not compete with each other, they are for different markets, and hence, an airline could very easily have the 747-8, 777-300ER, and A380 in the same fleet.

Saying the A380 competes with the 747-8 is like saying the 767-200ER competes with the A330-300. Bottom line, they don't.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4696 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11870 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
The B 747-400/747-8 have lower seat mile cost than the B 777.

from airlineempires.net
2006Q1
CASM UA 777 6.17, AA 6.03, DL 5.77, CO 5.05
UA 744 5.55, NW 744 5.45


User currently offlineNyca330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 7630 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15):
The quadness of the 748 is exceptional.

??? I would have thought the quadness (is that a malpropism?) of the B747-8 is exactly the same as that of other quads and therefore absolutely unexceptional. What am I missing?

I believe Supa7E7 is simply making a joke. I found it amusing, myself.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Future Of Boeing 747-400's posted Tue May 9 2006 19:48:47 by GiveMeWings
Do NW Has A Boeing 747 200Z's Instead Of B's posted Sat Feb 25 2006 22:22:51 by 747400sp
Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor posted Thu Nov 17 2005 20:11:48 by MTY2GVA
Future Of Boeing 747 posted Fri Aug 26 2005 01:44:26 by Amax1977
Success Of The Boeing 747 Combi Variant posted Fri Feb 25 2005 03:00:38 by AT
36TH Anniversary Of First Boeing 747 Flight posted Wed Feb 9 2005 20:46:09 by Propilot83
GKN Considers Purchase Of Boeing Wichita Plant posted Sat Sep 4 2004 00:09:55 by BH346
Status Of Iberia Boeing 747 posted Sun Dec 14 2003 10:59:33 by Mxp
Lufthansa Sends Boeing 747-400 To Malta Today! posted Tue Jul 23 2002 14:33:23 by BBADXB
Article On Plight Of Boeing 747's Future posted Mon Jun 10 2002 23:48:12 by Singapore_Air