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Airtran Dropping MDW-DFW, EWR Nonstops  
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5837 times:

I tried to book a flight for late Feburary and everything is going through ATL again. I'm surprised that these heavily traveled routes didn't work out.

Is FL backing up on MDW expansion plans?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5804 times:

Air Tran seems to be having a tough time pushing west, MDW nor DFW seemed to have worked too well for them. We'll have to see if IND works out for them.

Otherwise how bout a 3 way merger between Air Tran, Midwest and Alaska! ATL, MKE and west coast...heh



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineChi-town From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 971 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5781 times:

im surprised....the only carrier that flies MDW-DFW is Southwest (operated by ATA)

User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5769 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Otherwise how bout a 3 way merger between Air Tran, Midwest and Alaska! ATL, MKE and west coast...heh


Sounds good to me. They don't seem to be able to get a 2nd hub/focus city going on their own. Maybe they are planning something if the USAir/Delta thing happens.


User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5734 times:

It's seasonal. Both MDW-EWR and MDW-DFW will be back in May. AirTran can make a lot more money running those planes to Florida over the winter.

User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5703 times:

I find it hard to believe that MDW-EWR is seasonal...

not that I'm doubting that that's what they are doing with those airplanes, but EWR-MDW is a huge market any month of the year!


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5668 times:

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 5):
I find it hard to believe that MDW-EWR is seasonal...

I agree.
No doubt that Florida is good in the winter, but if they want to establish any type of business traveler loyalty, they need to stick with it.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4050 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5605 times:
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i seem to agree as well, i think Mr. CEO Lloyd Christmas will be paying more money to fly MDW-EWR, than Mrs. Claus traveling to florida.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 4):
It's seasonal. Both MDW-EWR and MDW-DFW will be back in May. AirTran can make a lot more money running those planes to Florida over the winter.

As far as I remember, this has been seasonal too; there are only but so many multi-million dollar a/c to go around.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 6):
No doubt that Florida is good in the winter, but if they want to establish any type of business traveler loyalty, they need to stick with it.

Its all about putting a/c where the money is made which FL has done quite well for the most part. Plus AirTran doesn't charge the $1000 fares to subsidize the flight for a few business travelers, so its obvious to send the a/c to Florida. Lower/flexable fares and a business class product availability do well enough in AirTran's Strategy, which is what they should "stick with".

Also keep in mind the several cut-backs from other carriers to Florida, allowing AirTran more opportunity there.



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5516 times:

Quoting Chi-town (Reply 2):
im surprised....the only carrier that flies MDW-DFW is Southwest (operated by ATA)

The semantics of that don't quite work. ATA is the only airline on MDW-DFW and Southwest has a codeshare agreement allowing them to sell tickets for certain ATA routes.

WN does sell their own tickets on DAL-MDW with a stop in either STL or MCI


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5482 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 8):
there are only but so many multi-million dollar a/c to go around.

They can't use that excuse any more when they are delaying deliveries.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5450 times:

Seasonal or not, there is no excuse to drop business routes to "seasonal" status. It shows the flights have performed poorly. I was at Midway airport this morning, and while waiting for Northwest flight to Detroit to board, I watch the morning flight to Newark on airTran board. The flight was so empty, that the PA announcement was "Since there are so few people aboard are flight this monring, everybody is now welcome to board."

I doubt they will come back, even though they are bookable starting in late April.



a.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Seasonal or not, there is no excuse to drop business routes to "seasonal" status.

thats exactly what I was getting at. CHI, NYC, and metro DFW to each other are not seasonal no matter how you look at it IMHO. Here today, gone tomorrow service in these markets will not work in the long run.


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting Chi-town (Reply 2):
im surprised....the only carrier that flies MDW-DFW is Southwest (operated by ATA)

LOL...because ATA doesn't deserve to be called the carrier on that route?

Let's see..they've only flown that route for 15 years...



But yeah, this is one of the flagship routes for ATA, and the WN codeshare can't hurt. TZ pulls a lot more connections out of MDW than does FL.



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

AirTran is a JOKE in Dallas !!

That is all there is to it. They were going to be operating 30 to 40 flights a day out of here according to their former Sales Director. They had flights from DFW-LAS, DFW-LAX and both of those have already been dropped. They also had DFW-MCO I don't know if that one still is running or not.

I know AA is throwing everything they can at them, but the kitchen sink but gosh, you would hope that they could stay in the city pairs long enough to get more people to start flying them.

Aadvantage miles is also a hard thing for other airlines to overcome at the mighty DFW, aka "American's Airport".  Smile


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6830 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 12):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Seasonal or not, there is no excuse to drop business routes to "seasonal" status.

thats exactly what I was getting at. CHI, NYC, and metro DFW to each other are not seasonal no matter how you look at it IMHO. Here today, gone tomorrow service in these markets will not work in the long run.

I have to agree with both of you here, too. Even if you manage to make more money by using the aircraft seasonally on other routes (like additional flying to Florida), there's a significant cost when you try to re-establish the route afterwards. Business travelers won't stay loyal because they can't depend on the service to operate year-round. Leisure travelers will forget AirTran operates the route, so a significant percentage of the passengers they'd get would be people who stumbled across it at one of the booking engines.

I suspect that the bookability of the service in May is part wishful thinking and part trial balloon. In the unlikely event that they get good advance bookings, the routes will return -- but otherwise, they'll just rebook people through ATL.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1460 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
The semantics of that don't quite work. ATA is the only airline on MDW-DFW and Southwest has a codeshare agreement allowing them to sell tickets for certain ATA routes.

WN does sell their own tickets on DAL-MDW with a stop in either STL or MCI

You've almost got it right. WN and TZ have a bit more than just a codeshare agreement. In addition to ata.com, WN sells ALL TZ flights through their website as well including both connecting service and O/D (with the exception of CUN and GDL, no international...yet). For example, you will see MDW-DFW flights on southwest.com.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 14):
I know AA is throwing everything they can at them, but the kitchen sink but gosh, you would hope that they could stay in the city pairs long enough to get more people to start flying them.

I remember AirTran's Joe Leonard talking about 2-3 years back about how AirTran was not an airline to enter markets and quickly exit, because their operating economics and business model are so superior to competitors that they could compete in the markets they entered. How times change in this whacky business!

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 14):
Aadvantage miles is also a hard thing for other airlines to overcome at the mighty DFW, aka "American's Airport"

That, and the fact that AirTran had/has 2-3 flights per day up against 14-15 on American. In high-value business markets, frequency is a big differentiator.


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

I think this company needs to do more marketing on new routes. They have a good product, but I don't think I have ever seen an Airtran TV commercial, billboard, or heard a radio ad.

User currently offlineBonanzaAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 14):
They were going to be operating 30 to 40 flights a day out of here according to their former Sales Director.

Jay - Didn't you work for Airtran in Dallas as the City Sales Manager?


Bonanza


User currently offlineThunder9 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
That, and the fact that AirTran had/has 2-3 flights per day up against 14-15 on American. In high-value business markets, frequency is a big differentiator.

Commavia --

Not trying to completely  stirthepot , but I'm curious to know where you see AA's 14-15 dailies vs. FL's 2-3? I suppose you could consider CHI, but it's pretty well known that ORD is the business market, and MDW is the leisure market, so I don't think that is a real accurate comparison. Also, AA/Eagle left the DFW-MDW market back in September, so FL has had plenty of time to make that route work( or not, apparently), with only TZ as direct competition. And, AFAIK, AA hasn't added any real frequencies between DFW and ATL/LAS/LAX to run off FL. I got the impression from your post that this is what you were alluding to...

-J



"Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee." - William Kershner
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 20):
but it's pretty well known that ORD is the business market, and MDW is the leisure market,

No, it is not. Midway happens to have a "leisure" reputation thanks to it's collection of low-fare carriers, but is by no means a "leisure airport". It is quicker to get downtown from Midway most times of the day, and is extremely popular with business travelers, especially people form Chicago who live downtown and on the South Side, such as myself. There are plenty of flights to LaGuardia, Washington National, Atlanta, and other key business markets.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 20):
but I'm curious to know where you see AA's 14-15 dailies vs. FL's 2-3?

AA currently operates 17 daily departures from D/FW to Los Angeles, and 18 daily departures to O'Hare.

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 20):
I suppose you could consider CHI, but it's pretty well known that ORD is the business market, and MDW is the leisure market, so I don't think that is a real accurate comparison.

As MAH said, that is completely false. Midway is a very competitive business airport, as it is closer to downtown Chicago than O'Hare.

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 20):
And, AFAIK, AA hasn't added any real frequencies between DFW and ATL/LAS/LAX to run off FL.

That's because, as I said originally, they don't have to. When you're flying 17 daily flights to LAX, 18 to Chicago, and 10 to Las Vegas, and your competitor operates no more than three to any of them, there's not really much frequency adding required.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

They did the same thing here with IND-SFO/LAX. I think they are trying to run more routes than they have equipment for so they have to play the seasonal game to keep all the routes on the map. I can't admire a plan that sends your customers to the competition. MDW-ATL-EWR is just a pathetic route. Talk about MDW to EWR via the moon.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

Though the retired traveler is available to travel any day of the week, many leisure travelers fly on the weekends. So, isn't it possible to serve both the business traveler on Monday through Friday and the leisure traveler on the weekends?

There is a lot of competition between N.Y. and Chicago from the legacy carriers; I think the strength of their large networks and frequent flyer programs is telling in this case.



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
25 AirTran717 : I may also add that MDW has long been of interest to FL as a focus city. But MDW being situated the way it is, cannot expand much further, if at all.
26 AirTran717 : I would also like to add... from my humble experience... that when AirTran opened a new route, they never really marketed it as well as they should ha
27 Quickmover : I have never seen any Airtran adveristisements here in DEN. I can't believe they do as well as they do without advertisement.
28 AirTran717 : My point exactly. 717
29 Wjcandee : Well, I am surprised that nobody has commented on what seems a little more obvious reason to pull these flights in favor of Florida service: GATE SPA
30 Indy : FL advertises a great deal here (IND). They are very active with race promotions and of course their local PR guy Peyton Manning. Everything they do
31 Post contains images JayDub : I wrote quite the rant earlier today in regards to FL at DFW. However, in a brief moment of newbie idiocy, I lost the entire post. Here goes my (much
32 Zippyjet : We're adding flights from MDW to MIA right when this other service is temporarily discontinued. Almost any flights into the bottom feeder three, EWR,
33 Indy : LOL. I've done that a couple of times too. They always seem to be advertising for CSRs and ramp agents here. Despite a dismal on time record their re
34 Cjpark : Glad to see you have not lost your AA bias Jay. Even with the drain on available passengers in this market created by the entrance of Southwest into
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