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SIA Door Open For 777-200LR And 747-8I.  
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4467 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11153 times:

Earlier, there was a post claiming that SIA is only interested in buying the 747-8I if the A380 fails to come to market. Here is another article that actually states the opposite. It seems that both the 777-200LR and 747-8I are of interest.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=7208


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineW3ndytj4n From Indonesia, joined Feb 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11108 times:

Wow, will SQ be the launch customer for 748i?

w3ndy



Wendy Tjan
User currently offlineMrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10993 times:

Quoting W3ndytj4n (Reply 1):
Wow, will SQ be the launch customer for 748i?

Doesn't sound likely. It confirms that the 748 has not been accepted becuase of the old Boeing problem of high airplane costs. These problems are very questionable considering Boeings annual profit from its aircraft division.

Airbus has no such reservations yet still (until this quarter) reports OK earnings. It seems like this opens the door for Airbus to beat BAC soundly by continually undercutting them on price until they can get competitive models on the 787 and 777. Boeing seems headed toward destroying their competitive advantage with a new, like all American companies, for obscene profits.



The dude abides
User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 66
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

Quoting MrComet (Reply 2):
It seems like this opens the door for Airbus to beat BAC soundly by continually undercutting them on price until they can get competitive models on the 787 and 777. Boeing seems headed toward destroying their competitive advantage with a new, like all American companies, for obscene profits.

Wow!! That's a lot to read into a relatively short, simple article.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11017 times:

Sounds like there's a poker game going on - Mr. Chew just raised the stakes and Boeing is content to 'see' him, but not 'call 'him yet...........


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10929 times:

Quote:
Speaking to media in Seattle, he said an order for the dash 200LR is up to "Scott and Stan,"

Now that's interesting. It sounds like SQ wants the -200LR and an order is not that far away.

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10878 times:

"and hinted that the airline even may take another look at the 747-8I."

Indeed this phrase indicates that they haven't ruled out the 748i. But it's very carefully put... More like "let's enjoy the spotlights and not spoil today's party".



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User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4467 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10692 times:

I think the article highlights the fact that SIA has not made a decision on either the -200LR or the 8I. I posted this clipping because the previous SIA post was firmly against the 8I. It would seem that the 747 has not been ruled out but has not been chosen yet either.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12970 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10581 times:

Quoting MrComet (Reply 2):
It confirms that the 748 has not been accepted becuase of the old Boeing problem of high airplane costs.

Or the even older problem of SQ being very shrewd negotiators.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
Sounds like there's a poker game going on - Mr. Chew just raised the stakes and Boeing is content to 'see' him, but not 'call 'him yet...........

 checkmark 

There's no hurry on either side to make a deal. The 747-8 is doing fine selling freighters, and SQ is taking in lots of A380s in the near future.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10380 times:

Quoting W3ndytj4n (Reply 1):
Boeing seems headed toward destroying their competitive advantage with a new, like all American companies, for obscene profits.

Doesn't sound likely. It confirms that the 748 has not been accepted becuase of the old Boeing problem of high airplane costs. These problems are very questionable considering Boeings annual profit from its aircraft division.

That's a pretty strong statement there. Regarding prices, both A and B have high sticker prices, yet generally always wind up negotiating lower prices with their customers. To remark that Boeing always has higher prices and is greedily addicted to fat profits while Airbus offers fare prices is a ridiculous statement.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10375 times:
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Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 5):
It sounds like SQ wants the -200LR and an order is not that far away.

SQ is probably hedging their bets. They waited too long to order the 787 for their regional 777 fleet replacement and now they have to short-lease A330s to cover the delay.

They're going to have to replace some of their long-haul 777s before the A350XWB is available. At that point, they will have four choices available to them:

  • Order more 777-300ERs
  • Order the 777-200LR
  • Order the 787-10 (assuming it is available and can perform a 772ER's mission profile)
  • Order the A340-300 or A340-600


I believe #4 is a non-starter.

I believe #2 is going to depend on SQ keeping, if not expanding, their ULR services, because they could also replace their A345 fleet at the same time and work a large (30+ frame) deal with Boeing.

And I believe #1 and #3 are both the most likely options. SQ could use the 773s to both replace some 744s and increase luxury and capacity on some 772ER routes. And if the 787-10 is available and can perform a 772ER's mission profile, it's a natural add-on to SQ's 787-9 fleet.

Options 1-3 don't bode well for an A350XWB order, however, especially if Boeing gets aggressive with pricing on Options 1 and 2 to place large orders.

[Edited 2006-12-01 17:09:32]

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10257 times:

Quoting W3ndytj4n (Reply 1):
Wow, will SQ be the launch customer for 748i?

What seating could SQ put upstairs on a B747? Their new F seats would only fit in a 1-1 configuration. Same for their new C seats. In either case, the aisle would be more than a meter wide. That's not an efficient use of space. The new Y seats would fit 3-3 with a normal-sized aisle, but I'm not sure SQ would want to put Y passengers upstairs. Maybe.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
SQ is probably hedging their bets. They waited too long to order the 787 for their regional 777 fleet replacement and now they have to short-lease A330s to cover the delay.

They're going to have to replace some of their long-haul 777s before the A350XWB is available. At that point, they will have four choices available to them:


* Order more 777-300ERs
* Order the 777-200LR
* Order the 787-10 (assuming it is available and can perform a 772ER's mission profile)
* Order the A340-300 or A340-600



I believe #4 is a non-starter.

I believe #2 is going to depend on SQ keeping, if not expanding, their ULR services, because they could also replace their A345 fleet at the same time and work a large (30+ frame) deal with Boeing.

And I believe #1 and #3 are both the most likely options. SQ could use the 773s to both replace some 744s and increase luxury and capacity on some 772ER routes. And if the 787-10 is available and can perform a 772ER's mission profile, it's a natural add-on to SQ's 787-9 fleet.

Options 1-3 don't bode well for an A350XWB order, however, especially if Boeing gets aggressive with pricing on Options 1 and 2 to place large orders.

 checkmark 
The B787-10 will be able to perform all B777-200ER missions -- unless the airlines change their minds and accept the previously proposed 540,000 lbs version.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9988 times:

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
Earlier, there was a post claiming that SIA is only interested in buying the 747-8I if the A380 fails to come to market. Here is another article that actually states the opposite. It seems that both the 777-200LR and 747-8I are of interest

Ordering and taking an interest (or considering) are different things. Don't make them to be what you want them to be. There are no contradictory statements here.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9905 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
What seating could SQ put upstairs on a B747? Their new F seats would only fit in a 1-1 configuration. Same for their new C seats. In either case, the aisle would be more than a meter wide.

They can use slanted configuration right?

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9900 times:

Quoting MrComet (Reply 2):
It seems like this opens the door for Airbus to beat BAC soundly by continually undercutting them on price until they can get competitive models on the 787 and 777

Undercutting only works for so long before you loose money. And the competitors to the 787 and 777 are still a long ways aways. There is very little incentive for an airline to wait that many years for a competitive product, unless the improvements over the competitor are significant.

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
and hinted that the airline even may take another look at the 747-8I.

I thought the most interesting point he said was that the 773ER beats the 744 so handily. So Boeing unwittingly provided a competitor to the 744, it wasn't necessarily the A380 that beat down the 744 passenger. Then the 748I has to be a little better than the 773ER for airlines to consider it. Sounds like a tough act to follow.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9889 times:
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Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 13):
They can use slanted configuration right?

Even then, at three feet wide, it would still be 1+1 and would be pretty small in total (a dozen? a score?).


User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9850 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Even then, at three feet wide, it would still be 1+1 and would be pretty small in total

I know that, you can squeeze more seats in though and lessen the 1 meter aisle loss as Zvezda suggested.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4467 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9769 times:

I don't think Boeing was concerned about the 747-400 passenger series aircraft losing orders to their own 777-300ER. Obviously, the -300ER is going to be more efficient than the -400. The -400 was made in the mid 80s and rolled off the assembly line in 1989. The real game will be to see how the 747-8I compares to the 777-300ER. For that to take place, we actually need to have some pax versions ordered!

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 12):
Ordering and taking an interest (or considering) are different things. Don't make them to be what you want them to be. There are no contradictory statements here.

When did I say they were going to order them? All I'm doing is posting information that is going against a previously discussed topic. I thought it might be a good idea because other airliner forums with far more knowledgeable people were not discounting the 747-8I and -200LR like we were so handily.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9674 times:

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
777-200LR

Possible for US routes .

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
747-8I

Just , if the 380 fails , this will never happen , Germany,france... would avoid this with money for Airbus . They have invested to much in this programm .
So I doubt we´ll see a SQ 748I .


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9589 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 13):
They can use slanted configuration right?

Huh??? What do you mean slanted? Do you mean a herringbone configuration like VS? Have you seen the new SQ seats?


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9575 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
. More like "let's enjoy the spotlights and not spoil today's party".

Like I said before, it's spoken during 777-300ER ceremony. It's either being diplomatic or they just haven't rule out yet.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9544 times:

SQ always takes advantage of opportunities when planning its fleet......and its no surprise that they will continue to consider and evaluate the 772LR, 748I, variants of the 787 family, etc. And they will buy when the time is right and the prices and conditions are favorable. Does anyone really think that SQ has said to Boeing: we dont want 748s, regardless of what you are offering? I think not.

Also, there are many variables.......the A380 still has issues to be resolved, the A350/XWB has a lot of variables, SQ is still evaluating the ultra long haul business and whether there is real money to be made with these routes, the 787-10 is not yet an official airplane, and SQ does not want to get stuck with the 748I if it only sells in limited numbers for pax service as that will harm values on the second hand market. With 773ERs, 787-9 and A380s on firm order, and commitments for the A350 as well, SQ is taking some time to consider its next move.


User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9412 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 19):
Have you seen the new SQ seats?

Yes. Why don't you just explain yourself instead of just questioning people's knowledge.

I know the seat is square. The Business class seat however is not very long, and you can modify it a little bit to fit 1-1 herringbone configuration, with a place for the PTV. I am not interior design expert, But if SQ wants it, they can surely modify the seats to fit the 747 upper deck better if they have to.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9411 times:
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The SQ seat might be too heavy for the upper deck?

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9399 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
The SQ seat might be too heavy for the upper deck?



Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 22):


I know the seat is square. The Business class seat however is not very long, and you can modify it a little bit to fit 1-1 herringbone configuration, with a place for the PTV. I am not interior design expert, But if SQ wants it, they can surely modify the seats to fit the 747 upper deck better if they have to.

Cheers,
PP

Lets not get too focused on the new J class seat for the upper deck of a 748I......SQ could always put F and J class on the main level and utilize the upper deck for 3+3 Y class seating.


25 Zvezda : No offense intended. I just wanted to ensure we weren't talking past each other. They would be rather different seats. Yes, it's possible, but I don'
26 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Hmmm, the I or the F?
27 Manni : I think I was very clear on that. Reread my post and answer your own question. Indeed that wouldn't make much sense. However there are other airlines
28 KC135TopBoom : That is going to very tough for Airbus to do with the Euro's value so high over the Dollar (currently around $1.30= EU1.00, sorry, my keyboard does n
29 Flysherwood : You are joking of course! What the heck do you think Boeing is supposed to be in business for? MAKING MONEY!!! They have an obligation to their share
30 Thebry : Wow... 60 777s in their fleet!? I didn't realize they had that many. Of course, they're a predominantly Boeing carrier, so I shouldn't be so surprised
31 PVG : Or the even older problem of thinking that because your name is SQ that everyone is going to kiss your butt and overplaying your hand because of it a
32 Post contains images AvObserver : My thinking, as well. It would seem that although Boeing markets the 747-8I as a nominal A380 competitor, the -8I's worst competition is within Boein
33 Stitch : The 748 might have better CASM then the 773ER, however the 773ER might better be fitting the demand curve so what it gives up in CASM, it makes up fo
34 DJ748 : When the MD-11 was in development, SQ originally had an order for them, but cancelled the order because of doubts about the performance of it. They t
35 Manni : QR has yet to take delivery of their first 777. Other then TG, CX also operates both aircraft.
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