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FedEX And 757´s  
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

Reading n watching all these 757´s flying and successfully so, my question is how will FX get all these +50 they ordered to replace 727´s??

Micke//  Confused


Airbus SAS - Love them both
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6068 times:

Over time. Over several years as airlines eventually replace these birds when they get older. The oldest ones have been flying for over 20 years and will most likely have enough hours/cycles on them that the owner is starting to look at replacement.

In any case, it will be a gradual replacement of the 727's, taking many years.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

I was thinking of the 757 success, flying long haul over the pond with the winglet equipment there´s high time for Everett to open a new production line for 757...

Seriously the 757 will be a great replacement for 727! What the everage age of FX B727, 20-25 years?

Micke//  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5967 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 1):
Over time. Over several years as airlines eventually replace these birds when they get older. The oldest ones have been flying for over 20 years and will most likely have enough hours/cycles on them that the owner is starting to look at replacement.

In any case, it will be a gradual replacement of the 727's, taking many years.

I agree, in the coming years, we will begin seeing some airlines phasing out their 757s in favor of newer airplanes.....for example, a good number of early build ex-BA 757s are now with DHL. This will be a long process.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 2):
Seriously the 757 will be a great replacement for 727! What the everage age of FX B727, 20-25 years?

Consider that many of Fedex's 727s have very very low utilization rates.......sometimes as low as 3 or 4 hours per day doing one turn from a Fedex hub to a out station. This is why Fedex is interested primarily in used aircraft for this mission......the numbers cannot support new aircraft purchases. The 727s still have many years left (and due to the low utilization, the fact that the 727s are not the most fuel effecient airplanes around is not a very big issue) until enough 757s are acquired to replace the fleet.

Fedex's 727-200s were the last 15 727s to come off the line and I think that these airplanes have been re-engined.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 2):
I was thinking of the 757 success, flying long haul over the pond with the winglet equipment there´s high time for Everett to open a new production line for 757...

The 757 line is gone....and finished, it cannot be re-opened, its history at this point in time. Its doubtful whether airlines would be interested in ordering more 757s, airlines are simply using their 757s in different missions right now (such as transatlantic) because the 737NG and A32X have taken over many of the missions once flown by the 757. The 757 is one of the most versatile airplanes around and a personal all-time favorite, but there is really no need to put it back into prodcution even if it could be done.


User currently onlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

FX might be getting some calls from US in the not too distant future  Smile

User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7181 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
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We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

Regards.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
FX might be getting some calls from US in the not too distant future

I echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

What? US couldn't dump a fleet of 121 757s even if they wanted to.

They would need that capacity.

N


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5103 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
a good number of early build ex-BA 757s are now with DHL.

That's really only because of the cyclical market for the 757. For a while, the type was moribund, and pax airline demand was low enough that the capital cost of the aircraft made them suitable for freighter conversions. Now that the type has enjoyed a bit of a renaissance as narrowbody-across-the-pond is deemed acceptable, they will be slower to go to freight, but go they eventually will. The conversion guys are all lined up waiting for suitable airframes.

High fuel prices and the high efficiency of the airframes have also increased the demand for them.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5103 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
The 727s still have many years left (and due to the low utilization, the fact that the 727s are not the most fuel effecient airplanes around is not a very big issue) until enough 757s are acquired to replace the fleet.

Exactly. And the rest of your post is dead-on as well.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

Wow. That's amazing. I had no idea. Where are they? Who owns them?


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5677 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):

I echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
What? US couldn't dump a fleet of 121 757s even if they wanted to.

They would need that capacity.

N

If the US/DL merger goes though.......my guess would be that Delta's PW powered 757 fleet would remain, and the smaller US/HP RR fleet would be disposed of.........consider that US has some early build ex-EA examples, HP had some ex-EA airplanes as well, and HP had the early build Republic 757s in their fleet. A combined US/DL would shed some airplanes, and its possible that 757s would be given up (although with their new roles on thin transatlantic services for US already and possibly DL in the future, and on some PHX/LAS-Hawaii routes, its hard to imagine the combined airline able to give up any 757s).

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

Interesting - that is something I would not have expected.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

With US carriers? The only parked 757s that I was aware of were the NW birds that are being brought back into service.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
a good number of early build ex-BA 757s are now with DHL.

That's really only because of the cyclical market for the 757. For a while, the type was moribund, and pax airline demand was low enough that the capital cost of the aircraft made them suitable for freighter conversions. Now that the type has enjoyed a bit of a renaissance as narrowbody-across-the-pond is deemed acceptable, they will be slower to go to freight, but go they eventually will. The conversion guys are all lined up waiting for suitable airframes.

High fuel prices and the high efficiency of the airframes have also increased the demand for them.

Many of BA's 757s had the lower powered RB211-535C, so I presume they couldn't make it across the pond?



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7181 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5607 times:
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Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):

With US carriers? The only parked 757s that I was aware of were the NW birds that are being brought back into service.

I wasn't that specific. I do know there are around that many frames waiting to be snatched up.

Wait and see...


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 12):
Wait and see...

Thanks for the ""preview""........this will be interesting to watch.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

That surprises me...UA doesn't have anything to replace these with and they use all of their frames...


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11407 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
We are talking to UA and AA about buying frames.

There are approx 40+ laying around not being used.

American's entire 757 fleet is being used, with a few more ex-TWA still left to leave. I don't think American going to be selling any anytime soon.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 11):
Many of BA's 757s had the lower powered RB211-535C, so I presume they couldn't make it across the pond?

I think this is correct. But interestingly BA was one of the first airlines to operate the 757 on scheduled flights across the North Atlantic.

In late 1994 they took two of their still current aircraft, G-BPEC and 'EE out of service and converted their cabins to carry 156 passengers (18C / 138Y). One , G-BPEE, was put into service on the GLA-JFK-BOS route - I think the return flight was BOS-JFK-GLA and not BOS-GLA. The other, G-BPEC, was put into service on the BHX-JFK-YYZ-JFK-BHX route. I believe the first of these services was withdrawn at the end of the summer schedules in 1997 and the BHX service a year later.

Prior to the above services I believe the wholly owned BA subsidiary, Caledonian Airways, was operating on a regular basis out of LGW to holiday destinations such as MCO


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):
The other, G-BPEC, was put into service on the BHX-JFK-YYZ-JFK-BHX route.

Here it is at YYZ taxiing for departure to JFK:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Kelley



User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

I've said it before and I'll say it again... there are some board members at Boeing are regretting cancelling the 757 line. Yea, yea, I know, but didn't the 747 at one time have orders that numbered in the upper teens for the entire year and it's still going. Stronger interest in longer, thinner routes, new interest in the freighter, still one of the most efficient narrow bodies out there...

Some at Boeing are doing this right now over cancelling the 757...  banghead 


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 18):
there are some board members at Boeing are regretting cancelling the 757 line.

This is probably not true.....Boeing thought long and hard before cancelling the 757 program and airlines were not interested in placing new orders for the type. It has been reported that Boeing made a killer offer to Fedex for new build 757Fs, and Fedex passed since the airplanes were still too expensive for the missions that the airplanes were to be assigned to. CO, NW and US are using 757s across the Atlantic not because the 752 is the ideal transatlantic airliner, its not, they are using the 752s simply because they have them, they make sense on the thin routes that they service, and the missions previously handled by the 757s are now being flown by A32X and 737NG aircraft (ie, US transon routes). US carriers are dedicating more airplanes to international service (since there is more money to be made in that market) and the 752 is part of the shift of resources to longer range flying. The 757 was most popular with US carriers, and its unlikely that any of them would order newbuild 757s at this time.

The 753 was the undiscovered gem of the 757 family, with absolutely amazing operating costs on a per seat basis.....rumor has it that NW was sorry that it did not place an order for additional 753s after NW decided to use the 753 on West Coast-Hawaii services. CO probably was sorry that it insisted on cancelling orders for 6 newbuild 753s (CO originally ordered 15 753s but only accepted 9 of the type and swapped the remaining order for 738s) but CO did acquire the ex-ATA 753s on very good terms.

The 757 is one hell of an airplane, and will be key component of the fleets of major airlines (especially in the US) for many many years to come, but there was no longer demand for the type........most (but not all) of the missions handled by the 757 can be covered by the 737NG/A32X aircraft and the 739ER is a more capable alternative.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
Fedex's 727-200s were the last 15 727s to come off the line and I think that these airplanes have been re-engined.

More correctly, the Fedex fleet of 89 722's INCLUDES the last 15 722's off the line, and the only purpose-built 722F's. 11 of these have the Valsan conversion. The Valsan conversion on the remaining 4 was cancelled.

These 15 722F's will likely be the last 722's to leave the Fedex fleet.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5123 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
I echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.

Are you secretly Mr. Leahy?

Not even in the best dream Airbus has would that happen.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineDeltajet757 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

If the 757 is such a popular aircraft (which it is) I don't understand why Boeing won't start making them again.


FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting Deltajet757 (Reply 22):
If the 757 is such a popular aircraft (which it is) I don't understand why Boeing won't start making them again.

This is why.........

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):

This is probably not true.....Boeing thought long and hard before cancelling the 757 program and airlines were not interested in placing new orders for the type. It has been reported that Boeing made a killer offer to Fedex for new build 757Fs, and Fedex passed since the airplanes were still too expensive for the missions that the airplanes were to be assigned to. CO, NW and US are using 757s across the Atlantic not because the 752 is the ideal transatlantic airliner, its not, they are using the 752s simply because they have them, they make sense on the thin routes that they service, and the missions previously handled by the 757s are now being flown by A32X and 737NG aircraft (ie, US transon routes). US carriers are dedicating more airplanes to international service (since there is more money to be made in that market) and the 752 is part of the shift of resources to longer range flying. The 757 was most popular with US carriers, and its unlikely that any of them would order newbuild 757s at this time.

The 753 was the undiscovered gem of the 757 family, with absolutely amazing operating costs on a per seat basis.....rumor has it that NW was sorry that it did not place an order for additional 753s after NW decided to use the 753 on West Coast-Hawaii services. CO probably was sorry that it insisted on cancelling orders for 6 newbuild 753s (CO originally ordered 15 753s but only accepted 9 of the type and swapped the remaining order for 738s) but CO did acquire the ex-ATA 753s on very good terms.

The 757 is one hell of an airplane, and will be key component of the fleets of major airlines (especially in the US) for many many years to come, but there was no longer demand for the type........most (but not all) of the missions handled by the 757 can be covered by the 737NG/A32X aircraft and the 739ER is a more capable alternative.

And.....

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):

The 757 line is gone....and finished, it cannot be re-opened, its history at this point in time. Its doubtful whether airlines would be interested in ordering more 757s, airlines are simply using their 757s in different missions right now (such as transatlantic) because the 737NG and A32X have taken over many of the missions once flown by the 757. The 757 is one of the most versatile airplanes around and a personal all-time favorite, but there is really no need to put it back into prodcution even if it could be done.

The 757 line no longer exists, the tools and supplier network is gone, its over.


User currently onlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
echo that since US will dump all the DL 752s (121 to date) and go strictly with Airbus. But I'm confident that merger will fizzle.

Ditching 757s for A321s would be a horrible mistake, and one no airline is stupid enough to do.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
my guess would be that Delta's PW powered 757 fleet would remain, and the smaller US/HP RR fleet would be disposed of.........consider that US has some early build ex-EA examples, HP had some ex-EA airplanes as well, and HP had the early build Republic 757s in their fleet.

 checkmark  Agreed. Get rid of those delay machines they have running the PHX/LAS-Hawaii routes. Good riddance.


25 Dutchjet : Agreed......if the 757s were replaced with A321s, PHX and LAS would be very ugly places on hot summer days........operations would be a mess. The A32
26 474218 : If the 757 was a popular as everyone is making them out to be, Boeing would still be building them. Boeing stopped production of the 757 because the
27 Gigneil : Hardly. BA and US both are examples of airlines that have. The A321 will be a superior craft for West Coast routes from PHX and LAS, which is why US
28 Dutchjet : As any ex-HP operations person about sending out a fully loaded A321 on a PHX or LAS to the US east coast flight on a hot summer day and get back to
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