Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NWA, This Is Too Much!  
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3219 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17499 times:

Guy's check this out

http://www1.airliners.net/open.file?...4&sok=&photo_nr=&prev_id=&next_id=

Okay now i can add up and i know about the value of parting out some a/c but this is just crazy. NWA continue to fly the DC-9 on into oblivion and beyond yet a relatively efficient and new technology A320 has gone to scrap. WTF? WTF? god WTF?

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12529 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17504 times:

I know, it's amazing; I saw that photo today and I wondered, what the hell is happening! And then there's the old BA 777s being scrapped as well.

I'll tell you, those DC9s will outlast everything else; they'll probably be sending them out to Marana to collect A330 crews who have just dropped those aircraft off to be cut up!


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17497 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Thread starter):

Ok calm down. First of all Its an ORIGINAL build aircraft. Meaning it has a ton of cycles. Secondly. This a/c may have been on a lease therefor the LEASING COMPANY decided to scrap it. NW owns all their dc-9's thats why you see them not being scrapped. Finally, its just an aircraft. Calm down...



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineEugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17455 times:

I am sure the accountants at NWA know what they are doing - but I am surprised as well

User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17446 times:

Yep. We arn't joking when we say "when NW retires (incert modern a/c here or new plane not even built yet) the crew will be ferried back on a DC-9."
I guess simple economics keep the DC-9 running and decide an A320 needs to be scrapped.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6500 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17413 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Thread starter):
WTF? WTF? god WTF?

Before you get all ballistic, Northwest did not own that aircraft. They decided to not renew the lease and the owner (not Northwest) decided to junk it. Your dismay is directed at the wrong party. Suggest more research on your part.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17395 times:

If it helps lower the blood pressure a bit, there is a DC-9 series aircraft being broken up in the background.

Accorging to the FAA, this aircraft was manufactured in 1989. Certainly a young aircraft to meet it's end. It's parts must be pretty valuable.


User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17243 times:

Wow dude. You really need to calm the freak down. As stated before, the DC-9's are paid for and the A320's are not. The a/c was pretty old on top of it. Take a blood pressure pill and chill it bro


Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7669 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17201 times:

With the availability of new aircraft rolling off the line, the 2nd-hand market for an old A320 was very low. As part of the Ch. 11 filing, NW rejected leases on a number of aircraft that they either no longer needed, or to which the leasing company would not agree to a lower rate. NW rejected the lease - a common occurance for all airlines to no longer renew leases at some point.

The leasing company decided that it had gotten 16 years of service out of the aircraft, and decided it was easier/better financially to write off the remaining value of the aircraft and scrap it for parts. In this case the parts would probably bring in more money than the aircraft itself over the next few years.


User currently offlineSkyhawk62507 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 177 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17140 times:

Quoting Eugdog (Reply 3):
I am sure the accountants at NWA know what they are doing - but I am surprised as well

Would these be the same accountants NW had prior to September 14, 2005? I'm not sure I'd be so quick to trust their skills...


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7669 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17063 times:

Don't take your anger out on Northwest.....

Blame the leasing company that decided to scrap the aircraft:
Garybail, G.I.E
Societe Generale Leasing International of France.


User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16952 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 10):
Blame the leasing company that decided to scrap the aircraft:

Why blaming one for scrapping an owned plane?

Georg


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16898 times:

Quoting Skyhawk62507 (Reply 9):
Would these be the same accountants NW had prior to September 14, 2005?

What exactly does that mean...



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNorthwestEWR From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 461 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16879 times:

While we are on the subject of NWA's old aircraft. What is the oldest DC-9 right now ? I think it's N8921E and I think it's going to turn 40 in March.


ARJ 319 320 333 717 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 753 762 772 CRJ CR9 ER3 ERJ FRJ J31 J41 D9S D94 D95 M81 M82 M88
User currently offlineFreedom747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16841 times:

Retiring an A-330 and then ferrying the crew on a DC-9 coming back from the desert.
J U S T H I L L A R I O U S


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6500 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16728 times:

Quoting Skyhawk62507 (Reply 9):
Would these be the same accountants NW had prior to September 14, 2005? I'm not sure I'd be so quick to trust their skills...
Are you suggesting that the accountants at Northwest did not know they were losing money prior to the bankruptcy? What is it you think accountants do? They can't make negative numbers turn positive can they? I'm sure the accountants at Northwest who just announced a October profit are the same ones who were there in Sept 2005.

[Edited 2006-12-02 18:13:27]

User currently offlineTootallsd From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16682 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15):
Are you suggesting that the accountants at Northwest did not know they were losing money prior to the bankruptcy? What is it you think accountants do? They can't make negative numbers turn positive can they?

Accountants are the messengers. The poeple that run companies into the ground are management. Sometimes they get some or a lot of help from market and other external variables.

In my experience, we accountants are usually shouting fire while the rest of the organization is in collective denial about the current state of the business.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23155 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16682 times:

As has been explained numerous times on here, the design life of the 320 family is significantly shorter than most Douglas aircraft. The plane has evidently reached the end of its useful life, and as a passenger, I'd take a -9 any day.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineNitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 469 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16658 times:

Is there any value left in DC-9 parts, or once they are wfu, are they truly just scrap? There can't be much resale value to 3rd world airlines. Is there any number of higher value parts that could be used on MD-80s?
I assume (!) that a high cycle A320 airframe has a large amount of parts that could re-used. Also, I read on Anet that the 320 wasn't designed to have the high cycles like a DC-9. Any facts available for design cycles for current airframes?


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16415 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
As has been explained numerous times on here, the design life of the 320 family is significantly shorter than most Douglas aircraft.

This statement should answer any and all questions about why there is an A320 sitting in the desert and DC-9s still flying.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 16353 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):

I'll tell you, those DC9s will outlast everything else; they'll probably be sending them out to Marana to collect A330 crews who have just dropped those aircraft off to be cut up!

They build them to a higher standard in long beach.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 4):
I guess simple economics keep the DC-9 running and decide an A320 needs to be scrapped.

Pretty sad when keeping the DC-9 running is cheaper than keeping its newer, more modern replacement going.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):
It's parts must be pretty valuable.

There you go.... Old A320 = worth something, old DC-9 = worth nothing.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 16166 times:

The DC-9 is like a cockroach.

There could be a thermal nuclear meltdown of the entire planet, and there, sitting amidst the rubble of Minneapolis and Detroit....are the shining hulks of the surviving genus Douglas Cockroaches, or known by their bilogical name: Periplanetaamericanametallicusdouglai.



Delete this User
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 16104 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 10):
Don't take your anger out on Northwest.....

Blame the leasing company that decided to scrap the aircraft:
Garybail, G.I.E
Societe Generale Leasing International of France.

Believe me, A.netters are the only ones shedding any tears over this. This is one less aircraft Airbus and Boeing will have to compete with to sell new aircraft on the market. There was a Cyprus Airways A320 that was scrapped in Opaloka, FL about 8 months ago, and a BA A320-211 G-BUSG is next on the chopping block. You're going to see alot of 1st generation Airbus' being scrapped in the coming months



Made from jets!
User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 16031 times:

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 18):
Is there any value left in DC-9 parts, or once they are wfu, are they truly just scrap?

There will be limited resale value of parts from any DC-9 due to the ever dwindling number of aircraft being operated today.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 2):
Ok calm down. First of all Its an ORIGINAL build aircraft. Meaning it has a ton of cycles. Secondly. This a/c may have been on a lease therefor the LEASING COMPANY decided to scrap it. NW owns all their dc-9's thats why you see them not being scrapped. Finally, its just an aircraft. Calm down...

This response answers it all!  Wink . You're spot on in my opinion.


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 15944 times:

Even with all the facts, it is pretty weird to see an A320 in NW colours being srcapped when they fly DC9s. Gotta love though niners..  Big grin


There is something special about planes....
25 Adam727 : Douglas knew what they were doing when they built those DC-9's. They are good planes. When a Dc-9 outlast a A320 or a A330 not only that is funny, but
26 Warren747sp : If Airbus built a better plane with strong wings perhaps it can last but the A320 is really a throw away plane. Look at all the DC-9, B732 still flyin
27 Stirling : Back to being serious. I have noticed this is nothing but a cycle in aviation. On the cusps of technological transitions, many otherwise flyable aircr
28 Squid : Everyone is so intent on seeing NWA get rid of their DC-9's but I don't think they are too bad when you consider that most airlines would fly an RJ in
29 AirframeAS : If they did that, Airbus would need to drive their prices up...
30 OB1504 : Although I don't agree with this statement, this benefits Airbus if you think about it. There is already the whole "one less plane to compete with" t
31 Cobra27 : So why couldn't just extend the lease and operate than plane for more time? Operating DC-9 is not a cheap business
32 Post contains images ThePRGuy : Well they sure don't build em like they used to, that Airbus is simply FALLING APART!! The old diesel 9s are marvels of engineering plus NW own them,
33 Dutchjet : My goodness, this is getting out of control: Lets look at the facts: 1. Most DC9s are out of service and have become Pepsi cans; most A320s are still
34 EMBQA : I agree.. take a chill pill... First, Being a 'new' production aircraft with few scrapped, it is worth far more in parts then it is as a flying aircr
35 Scalebuilder : Can you prove this with fact? Maybe the A-320 pictured in this thread simply had exceeded the maximum number of cycles and was simply due to be broke
36 EMBQA : Older aircraft are much better built.. period. In the 80'-90' when fuel cost savings came into play weights and types of materials used was reduced t
37 Post contains links 757ANP : Guy's check this out http://www1.airliners.net/open.file?...4&sok=&photo_nr=&prev_id=&next_id= Okay now i can add up and i know about the value of par
38 2H4 : I don't think I'd describe them as "better" built. They were built utilizing different capabilities and with different priorities as compared to mode
39 Iflyswa : Hmm...NW 777's. Guess those must be pretty low-time/low-cycle, too. They managed to make it to the desert before I even got to see one in service! ifl
40 MDorBust : Before they even entered service no less. Another way to look at it is that older aircraft were built stronger to provide for a larger margin of erro
41 CF188A : Owned or not.... just its one of those things which DO NOT MAKE SENSE when you think of it bluntly! Thats like Air Canada getting rid of their 330s a
42 Post contains images DCrawley : I'm sorry for your loss, but it's not the first time an aircraft has been scrapped and definitely not the last. I've rented a Cherokee and passed thro
43 Burnsie28 : Huh? You mean the 777's that NW never had nor ordered?
44 CX747 : One thing that I do find remarkable is that their is a 747-200 in the background. Yes, unusual things do happen (Like DC-9s soldiering on and A320s re
45 Yellowstone : Does anyone know about how much airliners are worth, as scrap value? I would guess that newer models would probably be worth more.
46 Iflyswa : That's exactly what I meant, Burnsie. Yes, thanks for clarifying the obvious! iflyswa
47 Bobnwa : If they could have saved money by keeping the A320 then they would have. What do you think, they did it just to tick off A.netters?
48 PSU.DTW.SCE : Apparently this concept makes a lot of sense to airline planners and from a financial standpoint. First of all the A320 and the DC-9 serve completely
49 Azjubilee : PSU - as usual, well said. Too bad it only falls on deaf ears here. AZJ
50 Post contains links CF188A : Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 47): If they could have saved money by keeping the A320 then they would have. What do you think, they did it just to tick off A.
51 PSU.DTW.SCE : Perhaps the lessor wanted to get out of the business? Perhaps they didn't want to pay the costs associated with keeping the aircraft in an airworthy
52 Steeler83 : If NWA was doing this with their entire fleet of newer aircraft to continue flying their older less efficient aircraft, then it would be something to
53 Aeroperu : Ok...I know that this aircraft was not owned by NW....but did the crew of the leasing company that ferried this aircraft to the boneyard get ferried o
54 Jlbmedia : P R I C E L E S S ! ! ! !
55 Zippyjet : Save the NW DC-9's, save the high comedy here at A-Net! If NW does the unthinkable and puts those old birds out to pasture, we'll have to come up with
56 NorthwestEWR : Does anyone know what the crew was ferried out on ? If it was a DC-9........ LOL !!
57 Scalebuilder : Does any one know the cycle limits of the DC-9 versus the A-320? The continued use of the DC-9 by NW tells me that this aircraft must have been built
58 Dispatchguy : A long time ago, in 1994, I was working at an aviation gift shop called A Gift of Wings at the Mall of America in MSP (was located where the Old Navy
59 Someone83 : This is what I've heard about design limits (cycles) regarding the 9er, 737 and 320: Design Limits (Cycles): A320: 45.000 B737: 75.000 DC9: 100.000
60 Scalebuilder : Someone83: Thanks for sharing this information with the forum. Do you have a source for this? Well....if these quotes are true, I think we have the a
61 Dutchjet : But werent the design limites for the 737 and DC9 extended after the original design limits were exceeded by a good number of aircraft? I dont think
62 Hammer : This was the 60th 320 off the line..here is some info about it.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FAA
63 Someone83 : Yes that's correct as far as I know myself, so it might be possible for the 320 figures to increase. Not a written one unfortunately, but is not a "r
64 Scalebuilder : I appreciate your post, but can only wonder how many "original" cycles the DC-9 was really built for. I think it is a fact to all of us, that this pa
65 Jetdeltamsy : I think it speaks well of the DC9. It was clearly a quality piece of work when produced and continues to be viable. Now a huge part of the reason NWA
66 OB1504 : Austrian is currently doing something very similar to this by getting rid of their own A330s and keeping their 767 fleet.
67 Stirling : Since any aircraft is a collection of systems...to place an arbitrary cycles limit number to the whole of an aircraft is close to impossible. Engines,
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Emirates, Etihad, Qatar...How Much Is Too Much? posted Thu Nov 24 2005 03:59:44 by DL021
How Much, Is Too Much On Board? posted Wed Nov 9 2005 19:16:05 by AA767400
This Is TOO Good To BE True Man! posted Thu Nov 15 2001 01:53:16 by Trans element
This Is TOO Good To BE True Man! posted Thu Nov 15 2001 01:52:06 by Trans element
This Is Too Low - Rotate, Rotate! posted Wed Sep 5 2001 18:59:12 by Airbus380
How Much Is Too Much For An Airliner? posted Fri Aug 3 2001 01:10:28 by Lehpron
Is This Too Much Customer Service (Delta)? posted Tue Jul 27 2004 23:49:17 by 767Lover
The Official: This Flight Is TOO Long Thread posted Fri Jul 15 2005 00:55:40 by Ikramerica
Why This Photo Is So Much Popular - A340 posted Fri Apr 2 2004 05:57:28 by Saleem
Any NWA Employee, Is This True? posted Sat Apr 20 2002 22:22:08 by Airwarrior