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Lufthansa Eyes Amritsar As Its Next Indian City!  
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7066 times:

Lufthansa targets Japan, India, China as investment areas
Kolkata, Dec 2

Briefing reporters on the resumption of Lufthansa's direct Kolkata-Frankfurt thrice-a-week service after a gap of 35 years, the airline's executive vice-president (Marketing and Sales) Thierry Antinori said in India Lufthansa was targeting 20,000 outbound passengers per week.

The airline, which made Kolkata its sixth destination as against four in China, is working out details for adding another destination in the country. Asked to be specific, he said Amritsar was the likely destination.


I think LH wants to target the huge Panjabi population in North America - at they moment they have very limited (and boy I mean limited) one-stop options to get to ATQ.

What do you guys think the frequency will be?

On a side note, this is great news for Amritsar Airport. The airport has been showing tremendous growth recently - ATQ has direct services to LHR, BHX, YYZ, DME, SIN, TAS, ASB, BTS and it seems in the near future FRA! AI recently increased its BHX and YYZ flight to six weekly and once 9W get more A332s I think LHR will also have increased frequencies (9W wanted to operate the route six weekly).

It also seems ATQ's first development phase is complete - I have the found the following pictures on myaviation.net...the airport now has a proper terminal building!

MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Harmeet Pal Singh




MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Harmeet Pal Singh




MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Harmeet Pal Singh


47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7021 times:

Interesting.......after years of international carriers being focused only on Mumbai and Dehli, the Indian market is fragmenting and airlines are looking beyond these two cities. The changes in the international Indian market are simply remarkable.......nonstop flights to/from the US and new services to/from ""secondary"" Indian cities, not to mention increased capacity on traditional routes such as those to London.

As for Amristar, I think that its just a matter of time until LH launches service....my guess would be 3X per week A343 service to start, upgrading to daily service just as soon as practical.


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

Despite what Thierry had to say on ATQ, I still think, LH will go to AMD first.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
my guess would be 3X per week A343 service to start, upgrading to daily service just as soon as practical.

You may be correct about the frequencies, however I'm not too sure about the A343 - I'm not sure if it can handle it, more specifically the runway length. AI and SQ operate 772s from ATQ - doesn't the A343 require more length?

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 2):
Despite what Thierry had to say on ATQ, I still think, LH will go to AMD first

You have a point - if I'm not mistaken AI's first non DEL/BOM route from LHR was AMD - maybe traffic is higher from there...?

Also I have just read the following about British Airways and the possibility of beginning flights to ATQ:

"Sriram Narayan, BA's central India manager, revealed that the interline feed to and from Hyderabad and Amritsar was considerably high, putting both of them firmly on the wishlist for the airline's next round of frequency additions."

Source: Click HERE


User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6848 times:

What is rwy length at ATQ. Do they plan to increase its length?? Any 2nd rwy requirement??

I think LH might do A343 during peak travel time downgrading to A333 during off peak times.

I am sure if 777 can do it then an A343 can as well  Smile

Awesome news for ATQ and even AMD.

Thanks for sharing pictures of ATQ, more would be appreciated  Smile



come fly with me
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 4):
What is rwy length at ATQ

According to World Aero Data:
Runway: 16/34
Length: 10,791 ft / 3289 m
Surface: Asphalt

Maybe someone can tell us if ATQ is A340 compatible?

After having a look at terminal capacity on the Airport's Authority of India website, I was amazed to read that the maximum handling of passengers at any one time is 250! But, if I'm not mistaken, ATQ is going through a development phase. Phase I is completed, while Phase II to remains. I think Phase II is concerned with navigational and airfield upgrades.

If LH do decide to go for ATQ, what timings would they use...something which would allow for US connections?

I've just realised that ATQ is becoming a fast growing STAR Alliance airport - I know it sounds weird considering its small size, but consider the following flights from ATQ:

SQ - Singapore
AI*- Delhi, Mumbai, Birmingham, Toronto, Dubai (Operated by AI Express)
IC*- Delhi, Sharjah
LH - Frankfurt?

*Scheduled to join STAR in 2007

Also TG have expressed interest to fly to ATQ!


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6668 times:

LH should look into AMD-Ahmedabad before ATQ as the former has more high yielding potential than ATQ!

User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6651 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
LH should look into AMD-Ahmedabad before ATQ as the former has more high yielding potential than ATQ!

I think both AMD and ATQ will do well...both Gujju and Punju population have loads of $$$. hehehehe  Smile



come fly with me
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
Lufthansa targets Japan, India, China as investment areas

I presume that Lufthansa will be looking at secondary markets in China as well. As it goes, Beijing and Shanghai are becoming more and more crowded and the yields have been suffering accordingly. Meanwhile, KLM seems to be doing just fine in Chengdu, so I presume that there are a number of cities of the caliber of CTU currently being looked at by LH.

I am surprised to see Japan on the LH wish list for growth. Japan, like South Korea, is a very mature market, yet LH is venturing into Busan next year, and now comes this annoucement about Japan. I would presume that they are looking into Fukuoka and Chitose for any future growth.


User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 722 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6615 times:

First thing they need to do is air condition the large check-in area at the Airport. Standing there in almost 40 degree heat in summer was no fun last year.

Another problem we found is accommodating the crew on the layover. We stayed in what was supposedly the best hotel in town and it was a dump. Most crew brought their own towels, sheets and pillows which was absurd. I just cannot see the LH crew accepting it.



Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6541 times:

Quoting Ejazz (Reply 9):
Another problem we found is accommodating the crew on the layover. We stayed in what was supposedly the best hotel in town and it was a dump. Most crew brought their own towels, sheets and pillows which was absurd. I just cannot see the LH crew accepting it.

That's actually an easy problem to solve - LH can possibly just lease a huge palatial mansion and convert that into a guest house. Or sub-contract with someone for a fancy set of serviced apts. It's also a matter of demand and supply - when there's demand, the fancy 5* hotels will be built pretty soon. I'm guessing SQ crew turn around and fly right back to SIN? Or do they layover in ATQ?

On the whole - this is excellent news for LH & India (and Star alliance as well). Given the dilapidated state of the "main" indian airports (aka DEL/BOM), most folks needing connections would prefer to avoid those airports - even if it means an even more dilapidated home airport (in my case - much prefer using BLR even though it's a dump, as the alternatives are BOM and DEL and the silly AAI service to connect between terminals).

I see this route as being a predominantly VFR route for the moment, as there's practically no Western investment in ATQ and surroundings (folks please feel free to correct me on that point). There should be a few Punjabi businessmen though, setting off to Europe & the Americas to see about their export business (whether it's rice or handicrafts or heavy equipment).



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6496 times:

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 2):
Despite what Thierry had to say on ATQ, I still think, LH will go to AMD first.



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
LH should look into AMD-Ahmedabad before ATQ as the former has more high yielding potential than ATQ!

Have to agree with this, AMD would be a better first-choice for Indian expansion for LH that ATQ.

A major reason is that ATQ is a heavy VFR-destination, but not as heavy on C-traffic as AMD. And there is very limited VFR-potential from Germany to ATQ; as pointed out earlier in this thread this mainly comes from North America, and starting a route based primarily on connecting traffic from the US is not a sound idea, as it is the nonstop pax - and especially the C-ones - that pay the fare premiums. FRA-AMD would attract a lot more C-pax and Germany/Europe originating pax than FRA-ATQ.

Well, just my two cents...

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Thats great , LH is really growing in Asia , Now they are the Biggest European Airline there.

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 11):
FRA-AMD would attract a lot more C-pax and Germany/Europe originating pax than FRA-ATQ.

precisely...Gujarat state in India is where AMD is situated and is home to one of the worlds larges Diamond manufacturing facilities...lots of C class flying diamond merchant traders fly from AMD via BOM/DEL to BRU.

its also a big time farming state in india and exports massive amounts of farming related products worldwide hence the cargo belly too would easily see 80% occupancy year long...and nowadays air cargo is considered vv high yielding.

LH can also target the large and wealthy guju population residing in LHR, NYC, LAX, SFO, YYZ, ORD and IAD for this flight. Pax heading to AMD, would easily pay a surcharge of USD 100 more if they can to AMD straight without having to transit in BOM or DEL.


User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5947 times:

I think you may be right about AMD. With its larger population and industrial centre (much greater than ATQ) it may be better for LH...but is there a really big difference between AMD and ATQ?

According to the Indian Government statistics, Punjab's economy (where ATQ is situated) is growing above the national average with a 10% growth rate.

Also, according to Government statistics, Punjab has the highest per capita income the whole of India and the best infrastructure.

In terms of industry, AMD wins - Gujarat is the industrial heartland of India, of that there is no doubt. I have heard that Ahmedabad has an impressive chemicals and pharmaceuticals industry and also IT is growing rapidly.
But, if I'm not mistaken Punjab is developing quickly too. Again according to government statistics:

  • Punjab has over 2.04 lakhs of small and medium industries
  • 600 large scale industries.
  • Leader in the manufacture of machine and hand tools; printing and paper cutting machinery; auto parts and electrical switch gear.
  • Punjab provides more than 75% of the country's requirement for bicycles, sewing machines, hosiery and sports goods.
  • Punjab's Hosiery industry is India's leading and is a major foreign exchange earner.


Also, isn't oil giant BP going to build a $3bn (£1.73bn) oil refinery in Punjab with Hindu Petroleum, producing 180,000 barrels of oil a day?

Behramjee, in terms of farming, isn't Punjab by far India's most important farming state? I've just had a look on the website and apparently Punjab is meant to be 'India's bread basket' and average farm land prices in the state starting at $200,000 a acre!? Also, I thought Punjab exports the most farming equipment (tractors 'Punjab Tractors Ltd' by Swaraj Industries)?

I still have a feeling you may be right that AMD is probably more attractive than ATQ - its population is seven times higher for a start and if you take take into account its role as the gateway to Gujarat, AMD seems very attractive...though LH in ATQ would be great!


User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 524 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

ATQ will work very well. LH will be able to capitalize the numerous NRIs in SFO, ORD, NYC, YVR, YYZ, IAH, LAX... etc. Also, foreign investment in Punjab is really taking off... especially in places like Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana, and Chandigarh

User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
I would presume that they are looking into Fukuoka and Chitose for any future growth.

Not necessary.

Probably MUC-KIX or MUC-NGO is on the card.


User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 15):
Also, foreign investment in Punjab is really taking off... especially in places like Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana, and Chandigarh

Talking of Ludhiana, isn't a new airport being built there too? Could this hurt Amritsar considering that Ludhiana is in the centre of Punjab and therefore easier for people all over Punjab to access?

Location of Ludhiana

Also according to the economic map of Punjab below (click on link), Ludhiana seems to be closer to the all important "very high level" of economic development in Punjab - perhaps yields would be better fom Ludhiana?

Punjab's Level of Economic Development in relation to the rest of India

British Airways seem to agree. Commenting on Amritsar in 2000, British Airways' then General Manager for South Asia Alan Briggs said:

"If Punjab makes an international airport at a central place, say Ludhiana, there will be a big potential for international carriers to immediately launch their operations. Further, a town like Ludhiana can also generate both first class and business class traffic."

Source: Click Here

Do you think things have changed since 2000...or is Ludhiana still better placed to attract major international destinations?


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 17):
Do you think things have changed since 2000...or is Ludhiana still better placed to attract major international destinations?

Its often quite easy for airline expat managers who go on their once a career visit to the hinterlands of different states to mouth statements like what Alan Briggs made in 2000.

He is not wrong in adding that big "if" in between. Knowing the pace of development in India, I would safely bet 15 years for a world class international airport to come up in Ludhiana... that is if they first agree to have one there. ATQ will never diminish in relative importance because the thousands of pilgrims who come to visit the Golden Temple will not opt to fly to LUH. Even though LUH is an economic hub, the distances are really not that much to justify having a new airport there especially when ATQ is just 78 nm away. By the way all the talk of a new airport for Punjab is now centered around Jalandhar, fyki.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Also read somewhere that LH was planning to have 10 destinations in India by 2010 with CCU being their sixth. I can imagine them evaluating AMD, ATQ and COK as potential new destinations but I cringe at their 10th destination... PNQ? JAI? GAU? BBI? GOI (Condor did fly charters in there)? where?

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

Thanks Vimanav for your info.

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 18):
would safely bet 15 years for a world class international airport to come up in Ludhiana... that is if they first agree to have one there...By the way all the talk of a new airport for Punjab is now centered around Jalandhar, fyki.

I have just looked on the internet and it seems 2 new airports have been given the green light by the Punjab State Government and the Union Government in Delhi!

A new domestic airport will open in Pathankot and an international airport with cargo facilities will open in Ludhiana (to be built in Halwara airbase - apparently confirmation will come in two days, 9 Dec).

According to Chief Secretary K.R. Lakhanpal:

"All formalities for the development of the civil airport vis a vis feasibility report, clearance from the Ministry of Defence and Airport Authority of India have come. We are just awaiting the Cabinet approval which should come in another week's time. Still I have to meet the Civil Aviation Secretary on December 9 and this issue will be discussed there."

Source: Meeting for Halwara Airport on Dec 9, says Chief Secy

The Punjab State Government has already started purchasing land around the airport!

According to Indian media, (perhaps some Indian a.netters can shed some light here), one of the principle reasons for building the airport is due to demands made by the business community for an airport with cargo facilities - Mukesh Ambabi, the head of Reliance Industries is mentioned....???

It looks like Punjab is enjoying a period of massive growth in civil aviation infrastructure and services!


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 5):
Maybe someone can tell us if ATQ is A340 compatible?

It is 777/330 compatible as AI and 9W use those planes from ATQ. If LH has said that ATQ then why are people trying to tell them to go to AMD on this forum.  Smile If they have said ATQ next then it must be ATQ next. I'm pretty sure that LH will serve both cities by late 2007!



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 21):
I'm pretty sure that LH will serve both cities by late 2007!

I agree, but I think AMD, with its position as the gateway to India's industrial heartland (Gujarat), yield may be slightly higher there.

But Amritsar must surely have something going for it; just look at the boom in services since 2005! Who would have thought ATQ would have direct flights to YYZ, DME, LHR, BHX, DXB, SN and now it seems FRA!

How will a new international airport in Ludhiana impact ATQ - they are only 90m/145km apart?


User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 524 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

LUH is also closer to DEL... I dont know id an airport can be successful yet in Ludhiana.

User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 23):
LUH is also closer to DEL... I dont know id an airport can be successful yet in Ludhiana.

Agreed, buyt DEL-LUH is still 277km away and takes over five hours by car and slightly over three hours by train!

I have checked on the internet and it seems Ludhiana does have ICAO and IATA codes.

ICAO: VILD
IATA: LUH

I think this is the case because it is currently an air force base.


25 Mk777 : I guess if Ludhiana, chandigarh, jallandhar and amritsar all become major hubs with delhi, then we can see very busy skies just like what we have over
26 Stirling : You guys are killing me with the codes! The hover feature doesn't recognize many of them. Anyway, I have been wondering what is the deal with India's
27 Post contains images Mk777 : I think many people living in this city have lots of family members living overseas-toronto, london etc. These people travel frequently, whether it b
28 Post contains links and images Concorde001 : You are correct. In Britain for example, there is a very large Punjabi/Sikh population, and the vast majority are very successful and have above aver
29 Post contains links Concorde001 : Jet Airways to increase Amritsar - Heathrow to six weekly According to forum posts by staff at Amritsar Travel: "Jet Airways is pleased to announce th
30 Mk777 : Like i said. Bring any airline to ATQ and you will be able to fill it up. hehehe!! be it 9W, AI, SQ, LH etc etc.
31 Blackbird : Isn't Amritsar that place where some British General had like 1,500 Indians gunned down in 1919?
32 Mk777 : Yes. General Dyer. Quite an a**hole i must add. "Jallianwala Bagh massacre"
33 Post contains images Concorde001 : From Wikipedia: "The Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, also known as the Amritsar Massacre, was named after the Jallianwala Bagh (Garden) in Amritsar, where
34 Post contains images Kevin777 : I'm also curious as to what the next ones are going to be, after ATQ and AMD. COK: I would be very surprised, too small. PNQ: Well, guess it's too cl
35 Cricket : Well, despite the Expressway, it still takes at least 3 hours on a good day to get from BOM airport to the outskirts of Pune (usually four hours and
36 Concorde001 : While I agree with you that the majority of pax on a LH flight to ATQ would be connecting from the US and Canada etc (unlike 9W's LHR-ATQ), I don't t
37 Post contains images Mk777 : I think ATQ will work. LH connects to almost every city in the US and canada. Take any big city in these 2 countries and you will find tons of punjus
38 Post contains images Kevin777 : Well, true. I guess this would be the same as many EU airlines serving several US East Coast cities, even though they are well connected on the groun
39 Mk777 : Pardon my ignorance, what is a 6th freedom flight?
40 Post contains images Kevin777 : An airline from country B flying pax between A and C via B on traffic rights from A to B and B to C.... Kevin777
41 Mk777 : What is the difference b/w a 5th freedom flight or any other # freedom flight if they exist?
42 Post contains links and images Concorde001 : Thanks for your replies Kevin777 I was about to agree with you, but then I read this: Volkswagen given go-ahead to build Rs.15bn ($330m) car plant in
43 AKLDELNonstop : I think fifth freedom is something like this. Say EK flies DXB-SYD-AKL. It is allowed to carry pax from SYD-AKL originating from SYD. Sixth freedom i
44 Mk777 : thanks, that helps, is there 1, 2 3 or 4 freedom rights as well?
45 Post contains links Feroze : They're all here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air
46 Post contains images Mk777 : thanks feroze, i got it now...
47 Kevin777 : Well, that's an entirely different story, now it has a lot more substance to it, seems very likely now..! Kevin777
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