Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
SAA JFK To JNB Non-stop From May 2007  
User currently offlineSA-JET From South Africa, joined May 2000, 297 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7261 times:

SAA's website has announced that from May 2007, all SAA inbound flights from JFK will be a non-stop service. This is reportedly due to the great popularity of their non-stop IAD to JNB service.

Furthermore, does anybody have some insights re SAA's wide-body purchase to be announced early next year? Both Boeing and Airbus are putting up a good fight to win the contract for 9 widebody jets. Any guesses? Could SAA sign up for the B747-800? I hope so! SAA has reported that it will not be a mixed order, but rather one company getting it all.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7230 times:

I am guessing that they will switch back to the 744 which they use to deploy instead of the underpowered A343?


747SP
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7201 times:

I thought someone else said on a different thread that the flights couldn't operate nonstop year-round. Can anyone confirm this?

What happens to JFK-DKR nonstop? No more options? How many JFK-DKR passengers does SAA capture per week? Are they giving up too many of these passengers?


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7171 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 1):
I am guessing that they will switch back to the 744 which they use to deploy instead of the underpowered A343?

Nothing wrong with the A343E on that front - it is capable of reaching JNB non-stop from JFK.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7153 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Never understood the stop going south, IT South African Air not African Air. SAA should buy the longest range airplanes possible. Be them A350, 787, 777LR or 748.

User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7031 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 4):
Never understood the stop going south, IT South African Air not African Air. SAA should buy the longest range airplanes possible. Be them A350, 787, 777LR or 748.

Back in Jan 2004, I did JFK-DKR-JNB, and the JFK-DKR leg was packed. The continuing DKR-JNB leg was empty.

Having done this only once, I'm not sure if this is always true, but it looks like the loads to DKR certainly justify the stop.

That said, I hate the extra stop, but it seems to make business sense.



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 4):
Never understood the stop going south

We've tried to explain it to you a hundred times.

Cargo and passenger capacity is the reason.

They now have a dedicated freighter service to JFK, hence the southbound stop is no longer necessary.

The longest range plane doesn't always yield the economics that you may need to make a route work. An A340-500 or 777-200LR could operate the route, but not at their max payload anyway, so why fly them? They get better revenue from larger planes with stops.

N


User currently offlineCactusTECH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6931 times:

The only problem with the A343E SAA is that it goes weight restricted out of JFK when it does the non-stop. This is not the first time they try non-stop with the 343

User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6896 times:

But most passengers prefer to fly non-stop period. SAA had no problem doing the flight until they introduced the A340. Bear in mind they advertise the hell out of it claiming that it can do non-stop both ways to N. America but had to blame the advertising dept when it was found out that the equipment were unable to do so.


747SP
User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

Really strange that SA didn't take some A345s in their A340 order. Could have done all their US stations non-stop.

User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6740 times:

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 9):
Really strange that SA didn't take some A345s in their A340 order. Could have done all their US stations non-stop.

They looked at it very closely. The A345 can't carry the payload necessary to make money while doing it non-stop. If they go non-stop both ways (even with a 772LR or A345), they basically wind up carrying fuel and little else.



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6728 times:

Kinda like PAL's LAX-MNL leg with a stop in Guam. Very annoying but I guess with the 773ER's they'll be getting, non-stop won't be a problem.

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6649 times:

Don´t see any problem with 343E

The only downside, if we can call it that, is the sluggish t/o but while you´re in the air it´s the most quiet cabin there is today wich most pax prefere.

GO SAA!

Micke//  bigthumbsup 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSAA201 From South Africa, joined May 2001, 512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Browsing the online schedules at Amadeus.net, it seems that the JFK-JNB will revert to a one-stop flight (ie via DKR) during the months of July and August 2007.

Not sure if this is due to projected higher loads or hotter temps in New York at that time of the year or a combination of both.


User currently offlineSAA201 From South Africa, joined May 2001, 512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

The JFK-JNB flights will continue to be operated by A343's.

[Edited 2006-12-04 20:30:52]

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 8):
Bear in mind they advertise the hell out of it claiming that it can do non-stop both ways to N. America but had to blame the advertising dept when it was found out that the equipment were unable to do so.

Once again - repeating a myth does not make it true.

The equipment is quite capable of flying nonstop - it's the airline that decided not to. True, passengers prefer nonstop - but an airline prefers a higher yield. And at the time they made the decision, there was no competition on the route, so there was no reason not to go for the choice that maximizes yield.

There's competition now, so SAA is realigning their priorities.

... but, alas, I'm well aware that an A340 will never resemble anything even close to a 'capable aircraft' for you...  Yeah sure

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 9):
Really strange that SA didn't take some A345s in their A340 order. Could have done all their US stations non-stop.

No reason to order it - it would not have provided any benefit to SAA.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 8):
SAA had no problem doing the flight until they introduced the A340.

The A340-600 hoists more payload on USA routes, stop or no stop, than the 744 ever did.

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 8):
Bear in mind they advertise the hell out of it claiming that it can do non-stop both ways to N. America but had to blame the advertising dept when it was found out that the equipment were unable to do so.

That was their own fault. SAA Technical knew that the plane could not do it, but SAA sales ran to market with it ANYWAY.

N


User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16):
The A340-600 hoists more payload on USA routes, stop or no stop, than the 744 ever did.

Interesting, Got any firm numbers or anything to back this claim?



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6496 times:

Quoting AT502B (Reply 17):
Interesting, Got any firm numbers or anything to back this claim?

I do.

NS


User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6485 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 18):
I do.

I guess I'll be waiting patiently then!  scratchchin 



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

Finally...

Hopefully this will mean the return of the A340-600's?



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 20):
Finally...

Hopefully this will mean the return of the A340-600's?

Not sure where you mean, the A346 has been serving IAD-JNB for a while now. Is this what you are referring too?
The A343e' serve JFK and ORD (starting next year)



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

Quoting AT502B (Reply 21):
Not sure where you mean, the A346 has been serving IAD-JNB for a while now. Is this what you are referring too?
The A343e' serve JFK and ORD (starting next year)

For the summer South African flew the A340-600 on the JNB-DKR-JFK. I was referring to that meaning hopefully the A340-600 might be flown on the JNB-JFK route sometime.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

someone should explain where all these statements about weight restriction is coming from. I am going to go all boeing on this one simply because airbus lacks the info. I will also Assume that JFK-JNB is 7900nm or so.

777-200LR
MTOW 766000
Actual TOW 766000

MZFW 461000
Actual ZFW 449000

747-400ER
MTOW 910000
Actual TOW 900000

MZFW 555000
Actual ZFW 480000

it would appear that the 777 operates the route much better only giving up 12000 pounds and the 747 giving up 75000. so I ask which one would be better. you are all talking about how the economics dictate the situation someone should explain how 12000 can make the difference between a non-stop and a one-stop.

one last thing here it would seem that some or all of you have funny numbers because everyones don't match. is it at all possible to go with straigh numbers and not what you think, unless ofcourse you say "I think" so we know it isn't necesarily fact.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Your numbers are not specific to JNB.

NS


25 SR 103 : Guys, don't bother trying to educate Warren747sp about the 340. He has proven time and time again in numerous posts that he has his own set of ideas
26 Post contains images AT502B : Gotcha. I suppose we will find out soon enough. With all the expansion SA is planning, it's going to be interesting to see how they manage the equipm
27 Warren747sp : Right SR 103 That's why the A340 is such a huge sales success! W
28 Gigneil : The A330/340 family is one of the most successful aircraft families ever. NS
29 MPDPilot : could you explain who your are talk about when you say "your". also where are you getting these numbers that you speak of? Finally perhapps you could
30 Leskova : Since you were the one supplying numbers for the flight as you were thinking it would look, I'd say it's a very safe bet that he meant you with "your
31 SA744 : I know SAA claimed that they wanted to go all Airbus that might still be the call but what would be the most practical equipment to buy.
32 Post contains images SAA346 : Damn - so will there be anything left doing JNBDKR with SAA? That'll bugger up the airmiles a bit for me [Edited 2006-12-05 13:08:27]
33 SAA201 : On the JNB-DKR sector (from May 2007) there will be 2x daily flights (SA203 & SA207) and a 4x weekly (SA210). On the return, ie DKR-JNB there will on
34 United787 : I can. The A330/A340 program has 995 orders to date. (Note: I have excluded the A350 since I don't buy that it is part of the same program) The follo
35 MPDPilot : ok I understand that and I was just asking for clarification. also If i didn't mention it it was a hypothetical situation. 7900 was just a number I f
36 Airzim : Talk about lies, damn lies, and statistics. That is not a fair comparison by a long shot and you know it. You can't lump the A330/340 into one group.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AI To Fly New York-BOM Non-Stop From April 2007 posted Fri Sep 1 2006 02:33:29 by LAXDESI
Northwest Cuts Non-Stop From MSN To Vegas posted Wed Oct 25 2006 21:50:54 by KarlB737
PK's 772LR: Ever Go Non-stop From JFK posted Thu Jun 29 2006 04:55:59 by CRGsFuture
United Starts Non-Stop From OKC To LAX posted Mon May 22 2006 23:27:08 by Jetmatt777
TAM To Fly Non-stop To JFK In October posted Fri Apr 8 2005 16:36:24 by Neo
It's Official, CX To Fly Non-stop HKG-JFK posted Wed Mar 10 2004 10:50:51 by Cathay Pacific
Kuwait Airways Non-stop From Kuwait To Newyork posted Fri Jan 16 2004 09:25:06 by Captain777
UA Non Stop From LAX To FRA posted Mon Aug 11 2003 21:49:33 by 747400sp
AC To Launch Non-stop Service From YYZ To India posted Thu Jul 3 2003 23:51:24 by SafeFlyer
Does SAA Fly Its 744 Fully Loaded On JFK To Jnb? posted Wed Sep 4 2002 11:48:29 by Bobcat