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Walsh: BA To Talk To Airbus About A350 XWB  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9295 times:

LONDON (Dow Jones)--British Airways PLC will hold talks with Airbus about the latter's revamped A350 XWB airplane and isn't concerned that it won't be available until 2013, BA Chief Executive Willie Walsh said at a news conference Monday.

"I'm very pleased to see Airbus move forward," Walsh said, adding that BA will continue talks with Airbus about the new A350 and double-decker A380 as part of the U.K. carrier's plans to renew its long-haul fleet. The firm is also looking at Boeing Co.'s 787 and 777 wide-bodied models...

...Walsh said the 2013 in-service date fits BA's needs well as the company is looking to upgrade its long-haul fleet in the middle of the next decade...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20061204-704525.html

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9129 times:

Somehow, I am NOT surprised at this announcement. Why? Because Walsh has had goos relationships with Airbus whilst at EI, and secondly, it is a good negotiating practice to let the other know that they have another "good" choice and timing is not going to be factor so they can negotiate great deal and spur competition. The real assessment may be totally off.

Again Boeing must earn this business and nothing is a given. Any thoughts from any insiders???


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8865 times:

BA will go with the A-350 here. Why? If 2013 is a good delivery date for them, they could have already ordered 777/787 for delivery in that time frame.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8850 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
BA will go with the A-350 here. Why? If 2013 is a good delivery date for them, they could have already ordered 777/787 for delivery in that time frame.

Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8854 times:
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BA will be taking ten (?) 773ERs soon via options exercise so that lets them stretch out the 763 and 772 replacement. We may see a dual-fleet decision with the 787-8 replacing the 763s and the A359 replacing the 772s.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerfull selling point vs the 787;

A330's from 2008.


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8728 times:

Finally they start to publicly admit their interest in the A380 but it would be a surprise to see Airbus wide-bodies in the BA colours.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350

How do you know? I am sure Airbus would give BA great deal to make them switch widebodies fleet.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so.

This is total science - fiction.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8612 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):

"I'm very pleased to see Airbus move forward," Walsh said, adding that BA will continue talks with Airbus about the new A350 and double-decker A380 as part of the U.K. carrier's plans to renew its long-haul fleet.

Now that ILFC and Virgin have deferred their orders and FedEx cancelled, BA has the excellent opportunity to acquire the A380 at an earlier date. It will be very interesting to see if Airbus will use the latest setbacks with VS,ILFC, and FedEx to it's advantage in securing what will be one of the largest operators of the A380 in the future.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8576 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.

Y3 isn't even a paper plane yet but it's already got the better of 2 other paper planes, an aircraft pre-EIS and one very new and efficient aircraft? Impressive! I think BA are interested in realities though.


User currently offlineLGWspeedbird From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8439 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
We may see a dual-fleet decision with the 787-8 replacing the 763s and the A359 replacing the 772s

Wouldnt this be more expensive having two makes of aircraft and having to stock all those different parts etc.

Would it not just be easier for us to order 787's to replace the 767's and newer 777's and 747 8's to replace the rest of the fleet. thus keeping all boeing would help with maintanence costs wouldnt it??



upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8276 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerful selling point vs the 787: A330's from 2008.

If BA wants the A358 as their 763ER replacement, then this would be excellent. If, however, BA doesn't want to go that large a step-up, then the 787-8 should have the edge even if BA has to wait, which it looks like they are willing to do if necessary.

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 10):
Would it not just be easier for us to order 787's to replace the 767's and newer 777's and 748's to replace the rest of the fleet. thus keeping all boeing would help with maintenance costs wouldn't it?

Well a fully 787 or A350XWB fleet would offer maintenance savings, but a 767, a 777, and a 747 share precious little parts now, so replacing the 767 with the 787 and the 744 with the 748I wouldn't offer BA much more then what they already have. BA could save on engine maintenance as the 748 and 773ER are GE-only and they could then order GE for their 787s. However, a mixed 787 and A350XWB fleet would allow them to stay with RR power, since the cores for the engines should be very similar even if the bleed/bleedless systems are not.


User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8167 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
...Walsh said the 2013 in-service date fits BA's needs well as the company is looking to upgrade its long-haul fleet in the middle of the next decade...



Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerfull selling point vs the 787;

A330's from 2008.

BA want to begin this fleet replacement cycle sometime in the next decade, so why would they need A330s in two years? If they had a need for aircraft of that size in the 2008-2010 period, they could easily have ordered the A330 or 787 long ago.

--B2707SST



Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12742 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8049 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
No doubt Airbus has thrown it's most powerfull selling point vs the 787;

A330's from 2008.

At today's Airbus press conference, it was mentioned that A330 is sold out till 2010.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

"British Airways Adds an Eighth At Eight
Monday December 4, 12:46 pm ET
Additional Morning Flight Increases New York's JFK to London Heathrow Service to Eight Daily Flights "*

This takes the advantage away of flying the A380 on this route...seems as if BA is only interested in offering more frequencies on what is certainly one of their core-flagship routes..

"British Airways' JFK services operate from Terminal 7 and the airline is the only foreign carrier to solely own and operate its own terminal at JFK.**

*/**sources:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/061204/109802.html

Also, given that BA have 61 Boeing 767/777's (with an option for 10 more 777's)...and with the 787's being type rated with the two aforementioned planes, it would possibly get expensive to have many of those pilots switch/add type ratings, etc..yes...BA have a lot of A32X's..but then again, what would come of those 767/777 pilots?

The same holds true for the 744 and the 748...

I'm glad though BA is looking into the A350/A380..in the end, it will give them a good deal on whichever planes they choose....

Cheers...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

BA will probably consider the A350, but I don't see it winning here. It will be a fantastic plane, but it is not a suitable replacement for BA's 767s. Airbus tried to swallow two markets 767-777 with one airplane and has instead gotten an a/c that is going to be dominant in the 777sized market and not non-existent in the 767 sized market. While nothing is cast in stone and I don't know if BA will be looking for a true 767 replacement, as of now, I see the 787 taking this one, but who knows what a year or two could change!!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7515 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
it would possibly get expensive to have many of those pilots switch/add type ratings

I think 25% operating costs is a lot (772 vs 359) and pilot conversion costs are not that high.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
Also, given that BA have 61 Boeing 767/777's (with an option for 10 more 777's)...and with the 787's being type rated with the two aforementioned planes

Will the 787 be type rated with the 767 and 777?


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
Additional Morning Flight Increases New York's JFK to London Heathrow Service to Eight Daily Flights "*

Can you imagine if BA put 77W on the JFK-LHR route in place of some of the 777-200ER/767s already on that route. They would be making money like there's no tomorrow. I wouldn't replace the 747s with anything smaller though. Those flights always seemed to be filled.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7297 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):

Can you imagine if BA put 77W on the JFK-LHR route in place of some of the 777-200ER/767s already on that route.

If BA go for the 77W & 748, they would have to take them with GE engines, no? They currently have 57 744's all with RR. That is something I do not think RR would be too pleased about!

But with the 350/380 and 787, they can have a choice, so I don't think it is just Airbus and Boeing that will be doing the selling here. RR has too much to lose.


User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Could BA simply skip having a 763-sized aircraft in its fleet?

Looking back at this post, BA only has 12 longhaul configured 763s (although this may have changed since that thread was started. Could BA not 'abuse' B772s on these routes, as other ailrines have done. The operational costs would likely be higher with the B772s, but could that be off-set by the savings made by eliminating the 767s from the fleet?

European services could be standardised around the Airbus A320 family - with the A321 being used in place of the 757 and 767, with increased frequency if required.

Just a thought...



7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7216 times:

Quoting EGNR (Reply 19):
European services could be standardised around the Airbus A320 family - with the A321 being used in place of the 757 and 767, with increased frequency if required.

How many 767s are BA using on european routes now?


User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7183 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
How many 767s are BA using on european routes now?

The info I looked at said BA's 763 fleet was 21 aircraft - so that would leave 9 763s being used on shorthauls.



7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 944 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6981 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah but the 787 is going to less expensive for them compared to the A350 and Boeing will probably be starting to take orders for the Y3 for delivery around 2015 or so. That would be an airplane that would obsolete the A350-1000/77W/748I/A380.

OK, maybe the Y3 could obsolete the A350 and B777 sometime by 2020. However it will not obsolete the A380. If the A380 is the right plane for BA then they will choose it. However it will not be usurped by Y3.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6931 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
Will the 787 be type rated with the 767 and 777?

Not to the level the Airbus family or the 757/767 is, but it should be a quicker path to train a 767 or 777 pilot on the 787.

Quoting EGNR (Reply 19):
Could BA simply skip having a 763-sized aircraft in its fleet?

Either way they're going to have to, as both the 787-8 and A358 are larger (the A358 being more so).


User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6931 times:

Quoting EGNR (Reply 21):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
How many 767s are BA using on european routes now?

The info I looked at said BA's 763 fleet was 21 aircraft - so that would leave 9 763s being used on shorthauls.

BA have 14 in longhaul config and 7 in shorthaul.



Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
25 RedChili : I'm impressed by your prophetic gift. Not only do you know how big discount Airbus will offer BA on the XWB, but you also know the specifications for
26 HARLEYF150 : Spoke to a BA pilot today at Heathrow after my flight from Manchester and i asked him what his thought's were on BA's future orders,he said that nothi
27 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : But, if you want a new A-330 delivered in 2008 or 2009, we can do it. With four engines, the A-380 may be obsolete now. I would not say, today the Y-
28 PM : Only a matter of time, I'd say. Uh? Whatever similarities their may be in design philosophy I think it's going too far to talk of these three being "
29 Iloveboeing : It would be wise for BA to get their pensions sorted out and then place their orders. The financing needs to come from somewhere.
30 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : BA has resigned a multi-year/multi-billion $ service contrcact with GE..so that won't be a problem... Also, that hasn't stopped "traditional" RR carr
31 BWIA 772 : I am suprised that no one has mentioned the 787 10. I thought that a BA order may actually bring the 787 10 from speculation to reality. Boeing can gi
32 Post contains images Jacobin777 : You may want to reconsider there mate...
33 Post contains images PM : @ Jacobin777 Post #32 OK, humour me. What do we understand by the term "type-rated" (and is that the term we want)? I may well be wrong but we're into
34 RayChuang : I think it's likely that BA maybe looking at buying the A350XWB-800 as a true 767-300(ER) replacement, though it will likely compete against the 787-9
35 Stitch : Well I can see Boeing making the 787 cockpit as close to the 777 as possible since that was meant to be Boeing's "two-pronged" family - the 787 on the
36 Jacobin777 : I really don't think there is anything to be humoured about there mate...when Randy compares the economics of the 747-8I to that of the A380, then su
37 Post contains images PM : Is that a goalpost I see slipping to the left...? Reply 14 : 'the 787 will be type rated with the 767 and 777' Reply 36 : 'Randy says that it won't t
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I think its a matter of semantics both Boeing and Airbus like to play...
39 Post contains images PM : Agreed. Though, just for the record, this is one game where Airbus currently have better cards than Boeing. There probably isn't a straight answer, i
40 Planemaker : No, Type Rated is a precise term and the 787 will not be type rated with the 767 nor 777. Furthermore, it realy should be obvious since the systems a
41 Danny : I don't believe that. That would mean that you could also have common rating for A320 and B737. It is basically complete denial of type ratings.
42 Glideslope : I'm not aware of a second engine option on the 350? GE is a no, and Pratt, IMO, is not interested.
43 Post contains links RichardPrice : GE and Airbus are still in discussions, according to the press conference yesterday, and Pratt have said previously that they are considering an Engi
44 TristarSteve : Lets get back to BA and the A350. All this talk of type ratings makes my head spin because there is so much wrong information here! BA operates B757 a
45 Columba : BA like EK and LH were mainly interested in the longer version of the 787, the dash 10. Boeing has been pretty quiet about the -10 recently on the oth
46 Stitch : In an Airbus fleet, it makes sense to me. It could be a nice niche for the 787-3 to fill (plenty of space for people and pallets) to complement the 7
47 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Lol..if you are talking about Airbus' games on semantics, I'm not arguing with you there... Hey, I'm not arguing..I'm only commenting on what the com
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