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Ryanair: Why Not Charleroi-Stansted?  
User currently offlineSpantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 324 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

In the past FR used to fly this route. I don't think it is a question of slots as there are plenty of them still available at CRL and maybe some at STN. Charleroi ("Brussels South" as FR calls it, I would call this practice "linguistic piracy") is an important base for FR: 20 routes. So, why not Stansted? (P.S: I am sure this has been discussed in the past but couldn't find the thread). Regards


A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

I'm just hazarding a guess here, but the travel time from LON to BRU via STN and CRL might just be far too long to make a market of it when the train can make it from Waterloo to Midi in just under 2:30.

Yes, I know Ryanair is not the Eurostar, but Eurostar fares aren't prohibitively expensive, and I bet the combo of transport to Stansted + Ryanair fare to CRL + Transport from CRL to Brussels might just add up to the Eurostar fare.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Wasn't the withdrawal of this route to do with FR's negative passenger fees at this airport being declared illegal ?

User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

FR's withdrawal on this route followed the EU ruling on 'illegal' subsidies. IIRC there was much noise from Michael O'Leary.

In my opinion, the EU did FR a favour as it gave them the opportunity to drop this high profile route, whilst claiming foul play, whilst in reality the route was un-profitable, was unlikely to ever turn a profit, and was under constant pressure from Eurostar.

Recent history on routes to Belgium from the UK has not been favourable for UK airlines - it's suprising how few flights there are...



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineTheDiplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
In my opinion, the EU did FR a favour as it gave them the opportunity to drop this high profile route, whilst claiming foul play, whilst in reality the route was un-profitable, was unlikely to ever turn a profit, and was under constant pressure from Eurostar.

You have it in one - O'leary always manages to find someone else to blame for a route closure, not that they have many!

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
Recent history on routes to Belgium from the UK has not been favourable for UK airlines - it's suprising how few flights there are...

The Belgian - UK market is an unusual one, not helped by the lack of tourism appeal in Belgium. The market is very seasonal, and peaky on Mondays and Fridays - which doesnt help with profitability or scheduling. Its also a government route - which tends to mean state flag carriers.


User currently offlineSpantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Thank you to all for your answers. So, the question is basically money. What is difficult to believe is that Charleroi (well, it is not Brussels but it lies close to Brussels and many passengers of CRL come from the Brussels area: Erasmus students, tourists and all kind of people) is less attractive than, say, Deauville or Dinard (Normandy, France) or Tours or Eindhoven, all places with an Standsted route. And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap. Regards.


A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Quoting Spantax (Reply 5):
Thank you to all for your answers. So, the question is basically money. What is difficult to believe is that Charleroi (well, it is not Brussels but it lies close to Brussels and many passengers of CRL come from the Brussels area: Erasmus students, tourists and all kind of people) is less attractive than, say, Deauville or Dinard (Normandy, France) or Tours or Eindhoven, all places with an Standsted route. And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap. Regards.

I think it also has something to do with British perceptions of what is a good destination; we have a good number of Brits buying or renting holiday cottages in France, which then provides a regular demand for seats.

I'm afraid that Belgium doesn't seem to "do it" for us. Maybe you need a good marketing campaign to get over the British joke about the impossible task; which is said to be "name 10 famous Belgians"

Also many British flying to Brussels are on EU business, and thus so intent on spending taxpayers money that they would only consider an airline that offers business class.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

For an accurate view of where customers using CRL come from, read a page (I forget which) in the 29th March indepedent report: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about...age=Invest&sec=atreports&cov=davy. In essence, do not always assume a large number come from the nearest big city.

[Edited 2006-12-05 12:11:20]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

Quoting Spantax (Reply 5):
What is difficult to believe is that Charleroi (well, it is not Brussels but it lies close to Brussels and many passengers of CRL come from the Brussels area: Erasmus students, tourists and all kind of people) is less attractive than, say, Deauville or Dinard (Normandy, France) or Tours or Eindhoven, all places with an Standsted route. And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap.

Well, they won't have any problem filling the aircraft with these 1 euro-fares, with the Erasmus students, budget-tourists, etc. But that's not how they can earn money. They average cost per pax for Ryanair are EUR 40, average revenue EUR 49. And that is a problem, to fill seats on CRL-STN for an average of 40 euros, as it will include quite some 159 EUR fares. And when charging EUR 159, the Eurostar is a big competitor, especially in the business segment.

Next to that, from Brussels downtown to London downtown is more convenient by Eurostar than CRL-STN and the ground transport. From for example Eindhoven, the alternative for many people is flying from AMS; here flying from Eindhoven is for many people such a convenience, that they can compete, even with 159 EUR oneway fares.


User currently offlineVinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 803 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 6):
I think it also has something to do with British perceptions of what is a good destination; we have a good number of Brits buying or renting holiday cottages in France, which then provides a regular demand for seats.

I'm afraid that Belgium doesn't seem to "do it" for us. Maybe you need a good marketing campaign to get over the British joke about the impossible task; which is said to be "name 10 famous Belgians"

Also many British flying to Brussels are on EU business, and thus so intent on spending taxpayers money that they would only consider an airline that offers business class.

Yeah well Brugge does it better for Brits still though they cancelled the Ostend-Stansted daily flight fairly quickly.

A better explanation has been given by BDL2CA:

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 1):
I'm just hazarding a guess here, but the travel time from LON to BRU via STN and CRL might just be far too long to make a market of it when the train can make it from Waterloo to Midi in just under 2:30.

Yes, I know Ryanair is not the Eurostar, but Eurostar fares aren't prohibitively expensive, and I bet the combo of transport to Stansted + Ryanair fare to CRL + Transport from CRL to Brussels might just add up to the Eurostar fare.



Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
Recent history on routes to Belgium from the UK has not been favourable for UK airlines - it's suprising how few flights there are...

Are you kiddin me?

For tomorrow 07/12/06:

BMI: 7 flights to Brussels from LHR
BA: 7 fligths to Brussels from LHR
SN: 2 flights to Brussels from LGW
Eurostar: 9 Trains to Brussels from Waterloo station!

Grant total 25 different possibilities. And if you want to stretch it you could even include buses and car travel which exists as well!


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 9):
Yes, I know Ryanair is not the Eurostar, but Eurostar fares aren't prohibitively expensive, and I bet the combo of transport to Stansted + Ryanair fare to CRL + Transport from CRL to Brussels might just add up to the Eurostar fare.

In all probability Eurostar would be cheaper and as quick if you are travelling from London, particularly with the present security problems at STN you need to allow 3 hours from Central London to take off. I don't know the cost of Charleroi - Brussels, but the cost from central London - STN is enought to make a grown man cry.

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 9):
BMI: 7 flights to Brussels from LHR
BA: 7 fligths to Brussels from LHR
SN: 2 flights to Brussels from LGW
Eurostar: 9 Trains to Brussels from Waterloo station!

Its those eurocrats in Club Eurpoe !!!!


User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 803 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10):
Its those eurocrats in Club Eurpoe !!!!

Lol

In the meantime i totally forgot the vlm flights so add 5 daily flights and you get 30 connections!


User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26778 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 3):
In my opinion, the EU did FR a favour as it gave them the opportunity to drop this high profile route, whilst claiming foul play, whilst in reality the route was un-profitable, was unlikely to ever turn a profit, and was under constant pressure from Eurostar.

A bit like AA blaming the lifting of the Wright Amendment to Missouri for their closure of DFW-LIM.

Quoting Spantax (Reply 5):
And I don't know if the Eurostar is such a big competitor as the fares are not specially cheap.

If you are under 26, Eurostar can be an excellent deal. That is a lot of FR's draw

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 11):
In the meantime i totally forgot the vlm flights so add 5 daily flights and you get 30 connections!

Given that they fly into City, that is definately business traffic



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3438 times:

It is definitely Eurostar which is the biggest factor here. If you consider the much larger London to Paris route, Eurostar has snatched a huge share of the market to the point that many of the flights that remain (BA and AF in particular) mostly carry connecting passengers.

9 Eurostar services from Waterloo to Midi is quite a lot, especially when one considers that each train can take about 500 passengers! The train is actually nearly half a kilometre long. Then consider the convenience of getting into the centres of the respective cities and, in the case of Brussels, the ability to connect for free to any Belgian city by train and one sees that Eurostar has a hugely difficult act for any airline to match.

The heavy business accent to this particular route adds to the dilemma against Ryanair, the city centre arrivals again weighing in favour of the train. In the future, with the new Channel Tunnel Rail Link in operation, the train times will be shortened by 20 minutes and trains could also run more frequently (the need to share commuter tracks to Waterloo presently being a major bottleneck), the pendulum may well shift further towards Eurostar.

We all love airlines here but Eurostar is great - very comfortable, smooth and fast. One ride on it and you may well decide to use it whenever you can.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26778 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 13):
The train is actually nearly half a kilometre long.

Actually, I believe it is nearly a half mile (800m) long.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDakota From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

From June 1st, Ryanair will resume flights between Stansted and Charleroi Brussels South with 4 flights a week:

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....r=06&month=dec&story=rte-en-131206


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