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Varig Retreats From MIA  
User currently offlineMdaddy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Varig submitted notice to MIA that they will terminate official occupancy of leased property at the airport. This follows continued flight inactivity and one can presume closes the book on this airline in this city.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA787823 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Great news for AA! More traffic to us! Bad news for non revs.  Sad

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

Quoting Mdaddy (Thread starter):
This follows continued flight inactivity and one can presume closes the book on this airline in this city.

Why close the book in Miami? Maybe they are just cutting costs.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5420 times:

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 1):
Bad news for non revs.

Bad news for every customer. US-Brazil fares have been extremely high, and thats going back since before the high season too.

I hope they get back to MIA asap so I don't have to pay 150% or so of the average fare before RG suspended MIA.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMdaddy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):
Why close the book in Miami? Maybe they are just cutting costs.

Yep. I would say that they will definitely lower their costs by not flying. Expensive business these days!!


User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

From what I understand, they have been closing down various stations of their past international network for about two weeks now. Asuncion, Lima, and Montevideo's sales offices and airport personel were given termination news last week.

I wonder if this means what rumors have been saying lately that the RG name will cease to exist and a new brand will be created.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

Maybe this will signal the return of UA heavies to MIA,now that they have that new Star terminal. If RG leaves,this would leave only AA & Tam.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Quoting United_fan (Reply 6):
Maybe this will signal the return of UA heavies to MIA,now that they have that new Star terminal. If RG leaves,this would leave only AA & Tam.

Would be nice, but I doubt UA would be willing to make that sort of investment in terms of feed and expanded operations. Plus, they're very short on long-haul aircraft.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

This does not close the book on anything. Closing the station is a necessary step before they can re open it under the new company. They will be back.


a.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5208 times:

So it's not like they're to move to FLL?


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineFMAL From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

Varig is a traditional and once profitable route for Varig. I'm sure they'll be back.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 9):
So it's not like they're to move to FLL?

Never. There is absolutely no market for FLL-GRU, I don't get why people think there is. There simply is not.

Varig will be back to Miami, Madrid, and London when they are ready, and others will follow. Varig is not going to ignore the single largest long-haul market from Sao Paulo.



a.
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5146 times:

What, exactly, is going on at RG? These are the facts as I understand them:

- VarigLOG, which is 20%-owned by US private investment firm, MatlinPatterson, acquired RG's airline assets in an auction last July. I believe VarigLOG paid ~USD 25 million for the assets as well as a commitment to invest ~USD 500 million in RG.

- This auction was the first-ever bankruptcy asset sale auction in Brazil under its new federal bankruptcy protection law. In the U.S., these auctions are known as "363 asset sales", referring to the provision of the federal banckruptcy code governming such asset sales.

- VarigLOG was the ONLY entity to present a bid for the assets in the auction, despite the fact numerous other carriers expressed some interest, including AC and AV's owner, Synergy SA.

- As VarigLOG only acquired RG operational assets, all of RG's existing liabilities remained with the bankrupt estate [now controlled by creditors??], as well as RG's real estate, RG's large legal claim against the federal government for losses associated with fixed airfares dating several years and one single operational route to Brasil's northeast region.

- VarigLOG's RG now operates 3 M11's and 12 733's to domestic destinations and to CCS, BOG, EZE and FRA from GRU.

However, I read an article in ATW stating Joao Luiz Bernes de Souza, VarigLOG's CEO, will change the RG's name to "Nordeste". I thought "Nordeste" was the name of the carrier owned by the bankruptcy estate which operates a single route GIG-Northeast Brasil.

- Has VarigLOG's ownership of RG's assets been authorized by the federal bankruptcy court, Brasil's aviation authorities, as well as the relevant state governments?

- Does RG hold a valid certificate to operate all its flights?

- Will RG change its operating name to "Nordeste"?

- What, exactly, is going on?


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

Isn't this a great victory, I would call it that, for AA and their MIA base? As the major Latin gateway in this country, a major competitor for AA on flights to Brazil is gone. Does this mean we could see some extra 763 service down to GIG and GRU?

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting FMAL (Reply 10):
Varig is a traditional and once profitable route for Varig

??

What about TAM?

[Edited 2006-12-04 22:13:45]


Delete this User
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4999 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 13):
Isn't this a great victory, I would call it that, for AA and their MIA base? As the major Latin gateway in this country, a major competitor for AA on flights to Brazil is gone. Does this mean we could see some extra 763 service down to GIG and GRU?

It is not a "victory" at all because Varig will be back to Miami, along with Madrid and London, most likely by mid-2007.

AA is heavily increasing service between Miami and Brazil this winter, however, and will operate up to six daily flights - four to Sao Paulo and two to Rio de Janeiro. TAM next year will offer four daily flights - to Manaus, Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, and Sao Paulo.



a.
User currently offlineMdaddy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 8):
This does not close the book on anything. Closing the station is a necessary step before they can re open it under the new company. They will be back.

That's analogous to saying that BWIA will be back. Actually, BWIA's replacement is more representative of the caribbean airline that existed than the successor to Varig since the "new" Varig will have jettisoned the essence and debt and (i bet) the name and.... I'm wondering what happens to the international route authorities; i.e. how long they can remain dormant ...is that a factor in their future activity etc?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting Mdaddy (Reply 16):
That's analogous to saying that BWIA will be back. Actually, BWIA's replacement is more representative of the caribbean airline that existed than the successor to Varig since the "new" Varig will have jettisoned the essence and debt and (i bet) the name and.... I'm wondering what happens to the international route authorities; i.e. how long they can remain dormant ...is that a factor in their future activity etc?

Well, yes, it is analogous to saying BWIA will be back, although the "new" Varig will likely keep the name (although there has been the talk of the name changing to Nordeste, I give it a 50/50 shot). The US-Brazil air treaty allows Brazilian airlines 104 weekly flights to the US. Since they are far from using those all up, Varig easily gets to keep it's Miami, New York City, and Los Angeles route authorities, as US-Brazil route authorities can be infinitely dormant as long as nobody else asks for them because there are no remaining free frequencies.



a.
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2393 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Never. There is absolutely no market for FLL-GRU, I don't get why people think there is. There simply is not.

Well maybe because the biggest concentrations of Brazilians in the United States are in Boston and Pompano Beach. Pompano Beach is closer to FLL than to MIA and you can also find many low cost flights to FLL from Boston.



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 18):

Well maybe because the biggest concentrations of Brazilians in the United States are in Boston and Pompano Beach. Pompano Beach is closer to FLL than to MIA and you can also find many low cost flights to FLL from Boston.

That doesn't change the fact that business travelers, not Brazilians, are filling these flights. That is why Boston has no non-stop flights to Brazil, and probably won't for a long time. And, none the less, there is a very large concentration of Brazilians in midtown Miami Beach and Brickell Avenue.



a.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2693 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 18):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):Never. There is absolutely no market for FLL-GRU, I don't get why people think there is. There simply is not.
Well maybe because the biggest concentrations of Brazilians in the United States are in Boston and Pompano Beach. Pompano Beach is closer to FLL than to MIA and you can also find many low cost flights to FLL from Boston.

What the hell does the FLL-BOS market have to do with the [lack of] FLL-GRU market?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 20):

What the hell does the FLL-BOS market have to do with the [lack of] FLL-GRU market?

Not much. Although AA carriers approximately 100-120 BOS-GRU/GIG passengers a day via Miami. They sure aren't going to be interlining at FLL.



a.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
AA is heavily increasing service between Miami and Brazil this winter, however, and will operate up to six daily flights - four to Sao Paulo and two to Rio de Janeiro. TAM next year will offer four daily flights - to Manaus, Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, and Sao Paulo.

JJ flights have AA codeshare and AA flights have JJ codeshare? Or at least AA passengers get AAdvantage miles when flying JJ? That seems to me that the MIA-Brazil market is dominated by AA-JJ, which can't be considered competitors in that route but "partners".

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 18):
Well maybe because the biggest concentrations of Brazilians in the United States are in Boston and Pompano Beach. Pompano Beach is closer to FLL than to MIA and you can also find many low cost flights to FLL from Boston.

FLL isn't as wellknown airport for most Brazilians as MIA. IMHO, if AA and JJ are to takeover the MIA-Brazil market and do whatever they please with it, it could be advisable fro RG to move to FLL and offer a somewhat different product than AA/JJ do. I've to disagree with MAH4546, GRU-FLL could work, what I'm afraid is that few premium-fare paying passengers are to choose to travel between FLL and GRU compared to between MIA and GRU.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 22):
JJ flights have AA codeshare and AA flights have JJ codeshare? Or at least AA passengers get AAdvantage miles when flying JJ? That seems to me that the MIA-Brazil market is dominated by AA-JJ, which can't be considered competitors in that route but "partners".

They do not codeshare entirely. AA's code is on JJ's redeye, and JJ's code is on two of AA's redeyes to GRU. They only codeshare on MIA-GRU. No codesharing to GIG, MAO, or SSA.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 22):
I've to disagree with MAH4546, GRU-FLL could work, what I'm afraid is that few premium-fare paying passengers are to choose to travel between FLL and GRU compared to between MIA and GRU.

You just explained why FLL-GRU will never work: there is no business traffic. It won't work. Will it fill? Sure, during peak days. Will it make money? Nope.



a.
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4692 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
That doesn't change the fact that business travelers, not Brazilians, are filling these flights. That is why Boston has no non-stop flights to Brazil, and probably won't for a long time. And, none the less, there is a very large concentration of Brazilians in midtown Miami Beach and Brickell Avenue.

Brazilians are pretty much everywhere in Southern Florida.


25 PRAirbus : RG has lost customers, market share and unfortunately closed its USA chapter w/really bad memories (unreliable service) for passengers. They will not
26 RICARIZA : Yes, but from the total Brazilians in South Florida, about 40% are in the Pompano Beach area. This is not perception as it happens with the Brickell/
27 Hardiwv : Yes. No. CHETA is about to be awarded any time soon, some sources mention this week. No. This is not true and RG President already gave news conferen
28 JJMNGR : The only profitable route VARIG has was the shuttle service CGH/SDU/CGH as per their audit report at the time of the auction.
29 AJMIA : Do you think AA's fourth daily flight will be extended indefinately if RG has no immediate plans to return? AJMIA
30 FMAL : That's why I said "once". Don't really understand your post, but it was my mistake. I meant MIA was once a profitable and always traditional route fo
31 Incitatus : When it comes to local traffic getting on a flight to Sao Paulo, the locations of FLL and MIA are pretty much indifferent. There is no business traff
32 Hardiwv : Please clarify. I had information that almost all RG routes were profitable, except for LIS and BOG. GRU-FRA and GIG-FRA were the two most profitable
33 Incitatus : Hardi: Even though a good chunk of business travelers works in downtown Miami, there are plenty of other pockets of offices in the area, including do
34 JJMNGR : Hardi, The only route where VARIG was profitable was CGH/SDU/CGH. This was a result of the audit made at theirs due to auction. TAM paid to have acce
35 PPVRA : JJMNGR, How long of a period of time did that audit go over?
36 AirCanada014 : So you think its great news for AA so does that mean you don't want competition? You are willing to pay for higher fares? U need more competitions if
37 LipeGIG : Guys, the one closing bases is the old-Varig. New RG management will not accept high salaries paid by old-Varig (higher than the market) and due to th
38 JJMNGR : Don´t know...I only know the result.
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