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QR Demands A380 Comp. It Then Will Order 2 More  
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7201 times:

From the article,

"Qatar Airways is going to demand compensation for the delay," Baker said. "If we can get to a compensation arrangement with them, I will confirm the other two," he said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another interesting comment is made about the status of the A350 commitment.

"Qatar Airways already has an agreement with Airbus on receiving compensation for the A350s for which it placed orders of 60 aircraft. But tinkering with the original design has led to delays. Al Baker has on many occasions said he is not worried about the status of the A350 as clauses on compensation are in place."


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31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7168 times:

Bargain deal. Buy 1 and get 1 free.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7149 times:

No chance of that. Buy 1, get one at cost, maybe.

NS


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30886 posts, RR: 87
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7143 times:
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Only ordering two frames always seemed a bit odd to me, though I understand they're tasked for DOH-LHR when they arrive, so adding two more can't hurt since it will give them some coverage should one go down for maintenance.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7134 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
rom the article,

"Qatar Airways is going to demand compensation for the delay," Baker said. "If we can get to a compensation arrangement with them, I will confirm the other two," he said.

Thats a misconception..he says that QR would "confirm" the other two, not order two more.

QF are supposed to take 60 odd 787s on order(out of a total 115 with options)..if QF says that "the planes are preforming as planned we will take rest of our order", does that mean they have ordered 55 more? No it doesn't...not to me at least...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7124 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Thats a misconception..he says that QR would "confirm" the other two, not order two more.

Confirming the other two would be ordering two more, yes, since presently they are not firmed.

N


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30886 posts, RR: 87
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7120 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Thats a misconception..he says that QR would "confirm" the other two, not order two more.

Well he has two on order and two on option, so if he confirms the "other two", is that not a conversion of the two options to an order?

If he had said "our current two", then I would believe he was speaking of the two on order.


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7116 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
No chance of that. Buy 1, get one at cost, maybe.

Make it buy 1 and get the 2nd one for 90% off.

Frankly, Qatar has been a big mouth when it comes to compensation to increase pressure towards Airbus. Would be a joke to them if they receive small amount of compensation.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30886 posts, RR: 87
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7092 times:
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Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 7):
Would be a joke to them if they receive small amount of compensation.

The bigger joke would be on Airbus if QR cancelled their A350 order, which is some 50% of the current "firm" total for the program.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
Bargain deal. Buy 1 and get 1 free.

Thank you for your valuable contribution. Let's follow your logic. They've ordered 2, and are now in negotations for their delayed A380's. If the compensation is satisfactory Mr. Baker says he'll firm up 2 more. What's the incentive for Airbus here? Give them compensation, so QR will agree with getting 2 FREE A380s? Afterall, buy 1 get one free, is buy 2 get 2 free, not? Well they've bought the first 2....

Airbus is obviously going to make money on the sale of 2 extra A380s, otherwise there wouldn't be much to negotiate about.

Back to the think board for you. Buy 1 get one free is not going to work here...  rotfl 



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User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7087 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 7):
Make it buy 1 and get the 2nd one for 90% off.

Airbus can't give away a $285 million dollar aircraft.

Like I say, cost, sure. Maybe close to cost on two. But they don't sell aircraft at a loss.

NS


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
The bigger joke would be on Airbus if QR cancelled their A350 order, which is some 50% of the current "firm" total for the program

Stitch,

I dont think QR has firmed up that order. Or am I wrong?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
is that not a conversion of the two options to an 'order?

 checkmark 

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):
Confirming the other two would be ordering two more, yes, since presently they are not firmed.

 checkmark 

Indeed. Just ask yourself the question how many orders are there at the moment for the A380? Is it 149, 166 or around 230.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30886 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7048 times:
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Quoting Manni (Reply 11):
Stitch, I don't think QR has firmed up that order. Or am I wrong?

Knowing QR, probably not. They took a year to finalize their 777 order, so...

Still, 60 frames is a lot of frames. Airbus will certainly not roll over for QR on compensation or price, but I don't believe they're going to try and strong-arm them, either.

[Edited 2006-12-05 05:19:30]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):

Confirming the other two would be ordering two more, yes, since presently they are not firmed.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):

Well he has two on order and two on option, so if he confirms the "other two", is that not a conversion of the two options to an order?

If he had said "our current two", then I would believe he was speaking of the two on order.

It's semantics..I disagree (as stated per my example)......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6967 times:

Your example didn't make any sense.

NS


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
Your example didn't make any sense.

It was basically a direct correlation..whether you understand it or not, I stated it was a matter of semantics anyway...to which I disagreed with the OP...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6916 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Airbus will certainly not roll over for QR on compensation or price, but I don't believe they're going to try and strong-arm them, either.

Agreed. QR will probably get what it wants. Consequently, if Mr. Baker keeps his word an Airbus doesn't release the news sooner then agreed  Wink , it's only a matter of time to see QR converting their options to orders.



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User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6916 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 11):
I dont think QR has firmed up that order. Or am I wrong?

You're correct, the order isn't firm yet.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6649 times:

They ordered 2 sofar, they need at least 2 more to run any kind of reliable time table. Every knows so steep discounts at a.net only.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30886 posts, RR: 87
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6614 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
It was basically a direct correlation..whether you understand it or not, I stated it was a matter of semantics anyway...to which I disagreed with the OP...

Well I guess I don't understand because the only other way I can interpret his statement is that he will "confirm" that he has two options, but I'm not sure what Airbus gets out of giving him additional compensation beyond what is contracted in exchange to get him to confirm that he might order two more A388s later...

I'm reminded of Wimpy in the "Popeye" cartoons - "I will gladly consider buying your product on Tuesday for some extra cash today".  Silly


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12468 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
The bigger joke would be on Airbus if QR cancelled their A350 order, which is some 50% of the current "firm" total for the program.

Airbus has never counted QR's committment for the A350 as firm.

350 firm orders:
Air Europa - 10
Alafco - 12
CIT - 5
Eurofly - 3
Finnair - 9
ILFC - 16
Kingfisher - 5
TAM - 10
TAP - 10
US Airways - 20



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User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12468 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
The bigger joke would be on Airbus if QR cancelled their A350 order, which is some 50% of the current "firm" total for the program.

Airbus has never counted QR's commitment for the A350 as firm.

350 firm orders:
Air Europa - 10
Alafco - 12
CIT - 5
Eurofly - 3
Finnair - 9
ILFC - 16
Kingfisher - 5
TAM - 10
TAP - 10
US Airways - 20



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6595 times:

What do I have to read here? It is:

"Get the first two later and cheaper, buy the other two for the price you once signed."

Besides, it would be a new order, options are not firm orders.

Anyway, Al Baker could firm the A350 deal at the same time he orders the additional 2 A380s.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10000 posts, RR: 96
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6591 times:
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Quoting Gigneil (Reply 10):
Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 7):
Make it buy 1 and get the 2nd one for 90% off.

Airbus can't give away a $285 million dollar aircraft.

Like I say, cost, sure.

Maybe 90% off an A380 list price off is "cost"  Wink
What are Airbus worrying about?  biggrin 

Regards


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4139 posts, RR: 90
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6418 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"Qatar Airways already has an agreement with Airbus on receiving compensation for the A350s for which it placed orders of 60 aircraft. But tinkering with the original design has led to delays. Al Baker has on many occasions said he is not worried about the status of the A350 as clauses on compensation are in place."

I'll have some more details shortly but these headlines are typical Al Baker talk

*QATAR AIRWAYS MAY TURN TO BOEING IF FURTHER DELAYS IN A350
*QATAR AIRWAYS MAY ABANDON PLANS FOR A350 IF FURTHER DELAYS
*QATAR AIRWAYS CEO MADE COMMENTS IN INTERVIEW DUBAI

[ Fair use excerpt http://www.bloomberg.com ]

I'll update you when they download the AV interview

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
25 Par13del : Random thoughts here: " Airbus can't give away a $285 million dollar aircraft. Like I say, cost, sure. Maybe close to cost on two. But they don't sell
26 Post contains links Manni : ILFC's A380s were firm orders, converted to A380 passenger aircraft. No NEW (increase of) orders here. Options that are being converted to orders are
27 Post contains images Jacobin777 : There is nothing logical..so you need not worry about it....
28 NYC777 : How can ask for compensation on the A350 when he didn't even sign a firm contract? The guy has balls butI hope for Airbus' sake they tell him where h
29 NYC777 : I wonder if he's still got someone kicking his ass for letting go of the 787 slots he held? True, it will be counted as 2 more orders on their books.
30 Post contains images Glideslope : 1 for 2, 2 for 1, at cost, or close to it, you have to feel bad for Airbus. But then again, IMO, they are not the ones really absorbing the costs.
31 Briguy1974 : Airbus has already made its bed... You can not only compensate your large order makers for an aircraft. It is more important for Airbus to compensate
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