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LH Tipped To Launch Pax 747-8  
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6353 posts, RR: 34
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23843 times:

Reported in RATI today that Boeing is expected to secure a launch order for the pax 747-8 from LH pending final LH leadership approval for an order of 20 firm plus 20 options. Confirmation is expected sometime this week. It is reported that B and LH had reached agreement on terms over a series of meetings on 30 November and 1 December. The article goes on to state that given the delays to the A380, it now seems possible that the first 747-8s could arrive within a few months of the initial EIS of the A380. RATI says that B is expected to announce that the LH 747-8 is aiming for EIS in mid-2010.

The LH order breakthrough appears to be related to Boeing's recent decision to adopt the same 5.6m (18.4ft) fuselage stretch, compared with the 747-400, for the baseline passenger version as it had for the freighter.

Standardising both 747-8 offerings around the freighter’s fuselage length increases the 747-8’s typical three-class seating by 17 seats to 467 over the original version offered, but results in a 270nm (500km) range penalty.

The original 747-8 had a 2m forward fuselage plug, but the new version's plug is increased to 4.1m. The overhead galley option, in which Lufthansa is believed to have shown great interest, increases three-class seating by 12 seats to 479.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
232 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23856 times:

That's excellent news! Hopefully we'll see an announcement later this week!


I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23857 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Thread starter):
Reported in RATI today

Is RATI a trusted source?


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6353 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23879 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
Is RATI a trusted source?

Go to Rati.com to judge for yourself...  Wink



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23872 times:

Great News for Boeing and the B747-8 and also for Lufthansa.
Hope this come true.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23873 times:

As much as I'd love to see this happen, given all the hype about it over the past weeks, I'll believe it when I see a Lufthansa 748I order on Boeing's order page. Until then, my doubt's still alive.

User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23873 times:

Isn't the launch customer of a new aircraft type always tipped?

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
Is RATI a trusted source?

Well, nobody doubt that LH WILL order the 747-8I. But 20 firm orders is a bit large for a LH order ... their initial orders are typically smaller. I think the 15 frames order that was speculated about before is much more realitistic.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23874 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
As much as I'd love to see this happen, given all the hype about it over the past weeks, I'll believe it when I see a Lufthansa 748I order on Boeing's order page. Until then, my doubt's still alive.

Agreed especially if you recall the FAZ article published yesterday:
http://www.faz.net/s/RubC8BA5576CDEE...883A660~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

In which a LH manager said that there will be no A350 or 747 orders this year.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 23875 times:

All I'll say is that RATI is a highly credible industry source, as is AW&ST which predicted an LH 748i order recently. I'm starting to believe something may happen here.

User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 23569 times:

OOOOOh OOOOh i'm excited. Plz let this bet true LOL. The plane will look great in LH scheme.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 23505 times:

I really hope this is true! Word is though, that nothing has been decided just yet. I personally have a very strong feeling that LH will go with the 748i.

User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 23475 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 7):
Agreed especially if you recall the FAZ article published yesterday:
http://www.faz.net/s/RubC8BA5576CDEE...883A660~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

In which a LH manager said that there will be no A350 or 747 orders this year.

Can't read German (I'm the typical ignorant American). Who exactly was the manager or what was his position? Also, did he (she) say there will be no A350 or 747 orders this year or just that there won't be any orders this year? The former implies that they are going to order A350s and 747s, but just not this year.

Regards,

R



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 23332 times:
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Quoting PADSpot (Reply 6):
Well, nobody doubt that LH WILL order the 747-8I. But 20 firm orders is a bit large for a LH order ... their initial orders are typically smaller. I think the 15 frames order that was speculated about before is much more realistic.

However, Boeing probably needs something closer to 20 frames just to give the 748I a firm "push" into the marketplace and try and shake loose some more orders. And I imagine Boeing was willing to deal - especially with an A388 operator like LH - to get those 20 frames. An extra 5% off or so could be enough to sweeten the deal, especially if LH feels that they want a 747-sized replacement for part of their 744 fleet.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 23210 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
However, Boeing probably needs something closer to 20 frames just to give the 748I a firm "push" into the marketplace and try and shake loose some more orders. And I imagine Boeing was willing to deal - especially with an A388 operator like LH - to get those 20 frames. An extra 5% off or so could be enough to sweeten the deal, especially if LH feels that they want a 747-sized replacement for part of their 744 fleet.

Not only that, but it could also be other incentives for spares, etc.

This would certainly be a great jumpstart for LH...maybe that will get other carriers such as BA and CX on board....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 23133 times:

Now how about an order for the 787s and the 77W?

I wonder if this would include 748F adnd possibly 777Fs?



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 23105 times:

Oh , I hope this is true , Lufthansa will still have Jumbos (747) in the fleet !

And trust me , it will look great !


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22848 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
Now how about an order for the 787s and the 77W?

I wonder if this would include 748F adnd possibly 777Fs?

I would rather have Boeing save the 787 slots for BA.... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22776 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
I would rather have Boeing save the 787 slots for BA....

I know BA has stated before that they would stick with Boeing for widebodies and Airbus for the narrows, but I gotta say, at this point, I am feeling that BA is going to be a big launch customer for the A350XWB...with many incentives attached.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22757 times:

This is all excellent news! If it turns out to be true... I wonder if this is the "stunning" thing that Eureka was bragging about in the other thread yesterday about the 748i "in the next couple days"...

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
Now how about an order for the 787s and the 77W?

I wonder if this would include 748F adnd possibly 777Fs?

Just order a little of everything... throw some 739ER's in their too... just for kicks. hehe

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
I would rather have Boeing save the 787 slots for BA....

I don't care who orders them... just keep them coming.  Smile



KPAE via KBVY
User currently offlineDABZF From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 1201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22734 times:

I think that this is what is going to happen:
LH will order the 748 "just" to keep the Boeing connection. *)
I would be really surprised to see 787 or not to mention 777 order from LH!
A350 order to come next year...

*) This will leave some 744's to be converted freighters for Lufthansa Cargo. 5 (I think) already even have the cargo door as being combi's once...

...and I have no idea why I replied to this speculation thread which I normally always ignore... well go figure  Wink probably just bored.



I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22639 times:

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 18):
I don't care who orders them... just keep them coming.

It'll keep u busy for the next 8-9 years a least!!!! Not bad to have that kind of guaranteed work...especially when your porduct essentially sells itself!



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22502 times:
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Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
Now how about an order for the 787s and the 77W?

If LH orders the 748I I am of the opinion they will not order the 773ER.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
I wonder if this would include 748F and possibly 777Fs?

748F would probably be a given, if I am remembering comments that LH misses their 747Fs. LH could probably hold on the 777F if their MD-11F fleet is sufficient, otherwise they could go with it.

Quoting DIA (Reply 17):
I know BA has stated before that they would stick with Boeing for widebodies and Airbus for the narrows, but I gotta say, at this point, I am feeling that BA is going to be a big launch customer for the A350XWB...with many incentives attached.

Well BA has said they're willing to wait until 2013 to place orders, so if Airbus can deliver on schedule, the A350XWB would be available.

The 787-3 could be a nice option for BA's 763s that haul palletized freight around Europe (ARN and such) which could move BA to take the 787-8 as their long-haul 763 replacement. If they exercise their 777 options for the 773ER then that would give them a nice breather to wait for the A350X-1000.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22351 times:

Quoting DIA (Reply 17):
I know BA has stated before that they would stick with Boeing for widebodies and Airbus for the narrows, but I gotta say, at this point, I am feeling that BA is going to be a big launch customer for the A350XWB...with many incentives attached.

I shall respectfully disagree for the following reasons..

1)large Boeing widebody fleet with Boeing pilots
2)Chairman and BA board have traditionally purchased Boeing widebodies..(though they have basically switched to Airbus for the short-haul)
3)outstanding 777 order
4)price/costs of the 787 versus A350
5)With a large shorthaul Airbus fleet, I'm not so sure if BA wants to go with one manufacturer
6)the 787 will possibly be a better fit (and I think this is the most important of them all)....

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 18):

I don't care who orders them... just keep them coming.  Smile

Hey, no disagreements with me there mate..but I was only concerned about those valuable 787 slots... Smile

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):

If LH orders the 748I I am of the opinion they will not order the 773ER

 checkmark ...I doubt we'll see any pax versions of the 777 in LH colours.. Sad



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22167 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 20):
It'll keep u busy for the next 8-9 years a least!!!! Not bad to have that kind of guaranteed work...especially when your porduct essentially sells itself!

yeah... no complaints from me.  Smile
Since they sold so well, so fast and we haven't built one yet... a procurment agent told me the following (tongue in cheek of course):

Agent: So would you like to buy my product?
Customer: What do they do? How much?
Agent: They go really really far, carry lots of people, keep the earth green and... cost $160mil a peice(mumbles the price), did i mention they look cool!
Customer: Sure! I'll take a bunch!
Agent: That will be $3.4Bil, Cash, Check or Charge? They will be ready for x-mas in about 10 years...
Customer: Uhhh...



KPAE via KBVY
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22048 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
f I am remembering comments that LH misses their 747Fs.

That's true. LHC doesn't really miss the fuel burn of ther 742Fs, but they do miss the 74's capacity advantage over the MD-11, and from what I have read, they also miss the nose-loading capability the 747s had over the MD-11 (and pretty much every other type of freighter made by A or B.


25 Post contains images Flysherwood : Thorben, where are you?
26 PanAmOldDC8 : I am new at this only having joined today, but have been associated with the airline industry since the early 60'S. I am happy for Boeing as I like th
27 Wjcandee : Go to altavista.com and click on Babel Fish Translation. Copy and paste the web page link in the box, select "german to english", click and you'll ge
28 SirOmega : How many seats is that in real terms? (how many seats will LH really equip). Someone FINALLY ordered one of those "extras" Boeing has made a fuss ove
29 Iloveboeing : Agreed. While the fancy extras are nice, the airlines are more interested in lower seat-mile costs.
30 BoomBoom : Tenireiffe was the planes fault?
31 RedFlyer : Does it work? No... Error decoding translated text. We're sorry we've encountered an error with your request. If you think this is a bug we should kn
32 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Welcome to the forum PanAmOldDC8... Look foreword to reading your posts
33 PanAmOldDC8 : In reply to Boom Boom, no it was not the planes fault, but it did cause Pan Am to loose revenue for several months after the collision. The problem wh
34 Brendows : LH seats 330, 349, 368 and 390 pax in the different seat configs in their 747 fleet (according to seatguru.) You can probably add about 50 seats to t
35 BoomBoom : Still, it seems like they should find a way to utilize some of that empty space. It seems like a real waste not to. Maybe sleeping berths and meeting
36 PanAmOldDC8 : In reply to Boom Boom, I brought it up to show that even things that were not the fault of the airplane can cause airlines to suffer You have to remem
37 Post contains links Leelaw : WSJ 12/05/06: Lufthansa to Order 20 Boeing 747s ...In a major boost for Boeing Co. at the expense of its European rival, longtime Airbus customer Deut
38 Bringiton : Would be great news for the 747-8I program , I'll still wait until it happens though!!
39 DAYflyer : LH ordering the 8I would be great news indeed. Can't wait for the official press release....IF it is true.....which I doubt........
40 N328KF : If The Wall Street Journal says it's a near-certainty, then that reflects reality. We're not talking about Justplanes.com or airliners.net here.[Edit
41 ORDPIA : I have to say I was getting worried about the -8i program, but this is great news. Congrats to the guys down the street and to LH!
42 Post contains images Jacobin777 : " target=_blank>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1165....html Thanks for the link Leelaw.. If true, it will be amazing....hopefully that will get the o
43 RedFlyer : From the article... The move is an especially harsh blow to Airbus because Lufthansa, in 2001, was among the first customers for the A380 superjumbo,
44 Beech19 : As much as i want this deal to happen i'm trying to keep my hopes mum until the announcment, if its legit. This is what the 748i program needs. Once/
45 BillReid : A clear message to Airbus..... Your are so healthy today that we are once again going back to Boeing. Germany and Airbus are breaking apart. Watch for
46 United787 : CNBC just quote the WSJ report. I won't believe it until Boeing puts it on the books!
47 NYC777 : I think they did. This will lessen the chance that LH will exercise the A380 options they currently hold. They may do it at a later date but I think
48 Scouseflyer : That's all a big dramatic based on one unsubstantiated news report.......
49 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : Wow ! This sounds serious , and WSJ is a pretty respectable magazine . I can´t believe this , but I´ld also love a 777 order . Strange they order 2
50 PanAmOldDC8 : In response to Bill Read. I couldn't agree more. I think that Germany may be just waiting their chance to pull the plug on Airbus. I hope not, but it
51 Post contains images United787 : Newspaper
52 NYC777 : I don't think it'll happen. Thre are reports that a consortiam (sp) of German Banks will be buying up some of DaimlerChryslers shares in EADS. I thin
53 Thorben : Here. In Berlin, like most of the time. The whole issue isn't surprising. The only surprising thing is the typical American rethoric: Huh? Expense of
54 Post contains images Beech19 : Wait... you mean that everything said on a.net isn't fact? noooO!!! My reality is coming crashing down! I agree... if WSJ is reporting it they actual
55 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : OK ,sorry I used the german word
56 Post contains images AndesSMF : So, is time to dump my Boeing stock, or should I wait? Agreed!
57 Stitch : At this point, the order should be a go. The WSJ will have sources that they feel confident enough in to report this, especially with LH having recent
58 Post contains images LTU932 : Let me make this clear: the fate of Germany's participation in Airbus does not and I repeat, does NOT depend on LH buying Airbus aircraft. That being
59 Eureka : Or when I tell you something along these lines is about to happen. Although I don't know who really let the cat out of the bag. Whoever it was only h
60 Post contains images Jacobin777 : LHStarAlliance , unfortunately, I didn't make the statement..though I wish I had..I think the original quote was from Leelaw (post#37) Won't hear me
61 Bmacleod : OK is this going to be real or not? LH isn't just pulling Boeing's ear...they are actually planning on ordering the 747-8 pax as well as taking up all
62 NYC777 : When does LH plan to make a decision between the 787 and the A350? Does anyone know?
63 LHStarAlliance : Maybe that explains that high number I predict it will be : 15 LH / 5 LHC
64 BoomBoom : This sounds like the typical European sour grapes...
65 LHStarAlliance : Not in this year , I presume it will be the 1st quarter 2007
67 NoWorries : A few weeks ago, just before the KE deal was announced, the WSJ said to look for 50 wide body orders worth $10B (list) from Asia and Europe -- I reck
68 WINGS : Well I do hope this latest development is in fact correct. I share the same opinion as many on this board that the B748i will work well to fill the la
69 N328KF : If the WSJ article said "50 widebody orders," then we're ten short, though we don't know the size of the AirBridge order.[Edited 2006-12-05 20:40:58]
70 NYC777 : Does anyone know if this will be an LoI or a firm order that will credited to Boeing's 2006 order book?
71 Slz396 : To some journalists in the states, every Boeing order is a blow to Airbus (and vice versa); reality is the 747-8 is a whole category (almost 100 seat
72 Columba : No as LH Cargo management has clearly said that they don´t want any converted cargo aircraft anymore. They are looking at 747-4ERF, 747-8Fs and 777F
73 Post contains images LTU932 : It also keeps Lufthansa Technik happy, because it enables them to get certificated for MRO services on those aircraft which means more business for t
74 ERAUgrad02 : So who will be next to order? BA?
75 Tugger : Can we please avoid the typical "fanning the flames" that we soo often do here and just deal with the issue and not the "war". Please everyone, just b
76 Columba : They said that it will likely be spring 2007. Absolutely not Thorben has analysed the situation pretty well. Although I would not rule out a mixed or
77 NYC777 : I think EK and CX are in Boeing sites for a 748I order. I think that if LH's rumored order is true then that'll open the flood gates (so to speak) fo
78 N328KF : The profit is nice, but let's not forget that the benefits to Boeing by having the 747-8 in the product line are all out of proportion to the profits
79 Jfk777 : Boeing finally launched the 748 passenger, YAHOO. Now, I want to see whose been waiting to come to the dance. Now those hesititating like Cathay, BA &
80 Slz396 : First of all, the order isn't confirmed yet, so let's not count the chickens yet. Secondly, if I recall correctly, LH wanted a larger 748I, whereas E
81 SkyvanMan : What exactly is this overhead galley?
82 NoWorries : As some members have pointed out. the deal hasn't been officially announced. If the board hasn't approved it yet, then it isn't even official, let alo
83 NYC777 : I don't think the WSJ would put out a story like that if they weren't close to 100% certain it was going to happen. I don't know anything about FAZ o
84 Post contains images Beech19 : No one was doubting you per say... we welcomed you to A.net and warned you to make sure your info was legit because one can quickly be labled here on
85 Post contains links Brendows : An overhead galley is a galley that has been moved above the main pax cabin into the crown of the fuselage. There is much room there on the 747 that
86 BoomBoom : Well then his analysis that includes no 787 order is absoutely not in agreement with yours. Also, I thought LH was one of the airlines asking Boeing
87 Slz396 : The FAZ is Germany's leading business newspaper and they are quoting Mr Carl Siegel, LH board member, saying only this weekend LH will not order any
88 Stitch : QR got their knickers in a twist when Boeing announced their 20-frame 777 order ahead of schedule and had to wait a couple months as penance. As such
89 NYC777 : Well the news sent Boeing stock up to 90.82 and EADS down to 22.89.
90 Post contains links NoWorries : This article -- don't know how reliable -- suggests that Boeing is trying to accomplish both (get range and capacity) -- the article also seems to pr
91 Post contains images Beech19 : It was up to 91.10 shortly... don't forget the 3 x 787 orders too. They didn't hurt the stock.
92 USAF336TFS : Well, it appears that after years of speculation here on a.net, LH has settled the questions of whether they will or won't buy the 747-8i. Just got of
93 SJCRRPAX : That would be like stupid. A billion dollar order and a company would act like a Junior High School Girl? LH in my opinion is a very logical company
94 NYC777 : True the 787 was nice but the BIG one is the 748I. It can open up the flood gates with respect to a lot of other carriers.
95 Post contains images LTU932 : So, shall we expect a press release from Boeing tommorow? Like I said, LH has a long standing tradition with Boeing, as they were one of the launch c
96 BoomBoom : Nobody can find the pony in the manure pile like you can.
97 NYC777 : Rumor has it that LH has decided to go with the 787 (not sure which version) but if true I would think that an announcement will probably come early n
98 RedFlyer : I agree it's probably out of the realm of possibilities, but do you not get the impression the French are trying to take enough control that they wil
99 Ken777 : While the first 748i order was a bit slow in coming it looks like an order may be finally reaching the signing stage. That would slow down the comment
100 NYC777 : For those of us in the US we'll know when we wake up. I'm going to keep my Blackberry on my nightstand and toggle for Boeing news tomorrow when I wak
101 Post contains images SJCRRPAX : BoomBoom, aren't you the guy that once quoted Shakesphere? One more quote like that and I will have to put you on my respected user list, along with
102 LTU932 : Could this even be a launch order for the 787-10?
103 LHStarAlliance : Well thats a reliable source ,I´ll say my brother that he enters on LH intranet I´ll inform you If there´s also a confirmation.
104 LHStarAlliance : I don´t think , LH will wait until A presents a them the 350XWB .
105 NYC777 : Yeah I don't think they'll make an announcement on teh 787 vs A350 until next month. I do personally think they'll order teh 787-10 and they'll be th
106 LHStarAlliance : No, they´ve to wait until LH Board gives the go on , this will be on Wednesday.
107 N328KF : BTW, the headline on The Wall Street Journal sounds extremely confident: "Lufthansa to Order 20 Being 747s."
108 NYC777 : Given the time difference between Germany and Seattle, Boeing can still get a press release out after LH's Board has made a decision and they've (LH)
109 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : Oh you´re right , I thought it was monday
110 NYC777 : God forbid. I live for Friday afternoon rolling around!
111 Post contains links NYC777 : Here's a good article from Bloomberg about the pending order.: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=aoLNBd8obZSM
112 Post contains links OU812 : BusinessWeek too ! If this pans out. Then we have just witnessed Boeing taking another piece of the pie ! http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...=top
113 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : Here we´ve now 5 days free This vacation comes at the right time I must say
114 NYC777 : True enough!!!! I need a vacation! So with this order of 20 plus the 3 748I VIP plus the 49 748F, Boeing would have booked 72 748 orders this year. Th
115 Post contains links BoomBoom : http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...=top+news_top+news+index_top+story Go Richard!
116 Alessandro : Anyone knows or dare to guess when the B748 will be delivered to LH?
117 Travelin man : Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's second-biggest airline, plans to buy about 20 Boeing Co. 747-8 planes worth $5 billion at list p
118 LHStarAlliance : This analyst is stupid or he don´t knows what he´s saying . Much more than Airbus with the 380 With new wings , engines , etc.
119 LHStarAlliance : Thats it! 773 or 748 The 748 has 100 less seats than the 380 so it´s a different market.
120 LHStarAlliance : 2009 ?
121 Post contains images Beech19 : Doubtful... that won't be for some time. Like has been mentioned, customers will wait for Airbus to present the A350-Rev. 27 before deciding to order
122 NYC777 : I think Boeing is targeting a 2010 748I EIS.
123 Slz396 : The 748 is a plane of a lower seating capacity indeed, filling in the gap LH obviously will have in their fleet between the A340s and the A380s. I th
124 Gbfra : Sorry to disturb you but a LH spokeswoman just said that NO decision on the B748 has been met to this day.
125 Eatmybologna : Isn't it obvious? The more B748 Intercontinentals, the fewer A380 options LH will need.
126 Post contains links Alessandro : LHStarAll, Cargolux will take delivery in 2009 of their cargo B748s if all goes according to plan. So I doubt that, 2010 perhaps? More on http://www.b
127 AirTran737 : Well of course the spokesperson will say that, they will say it until they are told by the board to say otherwise. This is a big day for Boeing. I wa
128 LHStarAlliance : No because , the 748 will be used as a gap-filler between the 346 and the 380 . And has nothing to do with the 380 .
129 Post contains links and images Keesje : Seems like every Boeing order is translated into a major blow against Airbus these days according to Richard A. and J. Wallace http://www.google.com/s
130 PADSpot : Sure, but that is not the problem for LH. As I said: The launch customer is always tipped. In one way oder another ...
131 Slz396 : Could very well be so indeed... the other plausible option is that... well, LH are indeed not going to order tomorrow as Mr Carl Siegel -LH board mem
132 BoomBoom : So much for the idea of "abusing' the A380.
133 Brendows : Most likely mid 2010 or the second half of 2010.
134 Stitch : Unsubstantiated leaks from within LH have noted the 787 won the latest RFP against the A350, so depending on how the A350XWBCFRP is received... I don
135 Post contains links Bbobbo : It's not just them, pretty much every story I've seen so far frames it as a blow to Airbus: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116533937626741258.html h
136 Keesje : Boeing is not been able to sell the 747-500/600,400ERX/-adv/8i/8i stretched for many years and is under thread to loose the 350+ market completely. N
137 Keesje : Boeing is not been able to sell the 747-500/600,400ERX/-adv/8i/8i stretched for many years and is under thread to loose the 350+ market completely. N
138 Stitch : I wonder if they're all basing their stories off the same original report copy and that language was used there?
139 Alitalia744 : upset that LH may order Boeing's are ya?
140 Post contains images Stitch : Notice I said "an extra 5%". I am sure Boeing didn't charge LH anything close to list for these birds.
141 Eatmybologna : OK. I respect your opinion. But isn't that all it really is? Are you privy to LH's boardroom strategy? Do you know for sure that acquiring 748is have
142 LTU932 : Let's not forget that LH also wants to expand, and there are airports where it's financially not possible to upgrade them to handle an A380, while it
143 ScottB : Well, you can count me as one who thought that the chances of Lufthansa buying a Boeing of any sort were about as large as the chances of Southwest b
144 Slz396 : If you read all the articles it sure looks like they have been re-written by their authors all with the same original in front of them, something whi
145 F4N : How else would you categorize this? Airbus is undoubtedly beating the bushes trying to add to an A380 order book that has been relatively static for
146 Beech19 : And they wouldn't need too. I'm sure they made money on them and since the -8F is selling quite well. Plus this will bring in other carriers to final
147 MD-90 : I don't believe that it is a perfect zero sum game either, but there is a limit to how many 400+ seat airliners that airlines can fill. I don't think
148 Bbobbo : I tend to agree with you. People are citing that the A380 and the 747-8I are in different classes, so they don't really compete with each other. It's
149 Slz396 : Why did you ever believe LH would only buy Airbus? Have they ever publicly said so? It really is one of those rigid ideas living mainly with US membe
150 AerospaceFan : If news of LH's order of the 747 Intercontinental is accurate, then congratulations to Boeing are very much in order! And, as well, Lufthansa appears
151 CHI787ORD : Where can we expect the 748I? Im hoping ORD, since LH was initially planning on bringing the WhaleJet there.
152 Katekebo : With the news about the imminent order published by so many serious news agencies (WSJ, UPI, Reuters, IHT), I think it's only a matter of "when", rath
153 Slz396 : Just for the record, I am sure that if tomorrow AF for instance announces it will convert its options on the A380 to firm orders, it will take only 2
154 RedFlyer : No, they are not, but the more the WhaleJet is delayed, the more suitable the Boeing product becomes as a "substitute". While that may be true, the d
155 Slz396 : The degree of anti-Americanism (at least in Europe) is much overrated and could be better described as anti-isolationism. Europeans still like the or
156 Lumberton : IMO, you might want to balance this by listing the largest Airbus customers. On that list would likely appear FEDEX, US, NW, and don't forget ILFC.
157 BoomBoom : Oh really? Then what explains the very lopsided trade deficit the US has with the rest of the world?
158 Post contains images ER757 : I think this is a VERY important point. I am curious as to why many feel this way. Can someone explain why one airline ordering this model will affec
159 Post contains links AerospaceFan : Actually, I personally believe that feelings of patriotism should apply only with due recognition of the fact that many of Airbus' suppliers are actua
160 Bbobbo : I think this sentiment is probably promoted more by American producers who are trying to sell their goods. As BoomBoom noted, the American consumer i
161 Zvezda : I'm surprised that, in 160 posts, no one has raised the question of whether a LH order for the B747-8I SuperJumbo might be a prelude to a cancellation
162 BoomBoom : What about the airlines that bought 100 copies of the "old A350"? You know the one that even Airbus had to admit was inferior and shit canned it? Did
163 AerospaceFan : Agreed, and well put. I may currently own Motorola cell phones at the moment, but previous to that I owned Nokias, Sanyos, a Samsung, and an Ericsson
164 Tootallsd : Does this mean there are already delays in the 748i program. Jeez you would think Boeing has had enough time (since 1969) to get the kinks out of thi
165 RedFlyer : Really? I see anti-Americanism quite often during my four trips (on average) each year to the Continent. I notice your use of "we". Your biases are q
166 Jfk777 : Congrats to Boeing and Lufthansa for launching this brave new 747-800. Now lets see who the next to sign up are. Cathay, British Airways or JAL could
167 Pygmalion : it is funny how people want to say it was a competition between the 773ER and the 748i but NOT the 748i and the A380 as the as the A380 and the 748i a
168 Jacobin777 : That's rubbish...air carriers will get the best planes for the price and missions.. The United States has a boatload of "Airbus only" customers, in f
169 Zvezda : Yes, I believe it's a possibility, as I believe it's a possibility that the WSJ are wrong that a LH order for the B747-8I SuperJumbo is likely to be
170 AvObserver : To an extent, I agree that A380 sales won't be crippled by the 747-8I but it will be an alternative for some who would have considered the A380 if it
171 USAF336TFS : That's two of us!
172 Pelican : You're right. I would have expected such speculation earlier. That's exactly what we need to start a real A vs. B war. Until now the thread is a posi
173 Zvezda : Undoubtedly, Airbus will not offer a shrink of the WhaleJet. As you point out, physics is against them. There is no way that a shrunk WhaleJet could
174 BoomBoom : It appears that VS would prefer not to take their A380s for five years, or perhaps never.[Edited 2006-12-06 02:21:55]
175 SirOmega : Any such shrink of the A380 would be tossed in the garbage now. The 748i would slaugter the A387 in CASM, there is no reason Airbus would want to eng
176 11Bravo : I'l bet Airbus is a bit concerned about what's going on here. Current LH VLA fleet: 30 B744 A388 Orders: 15 firm, 10 options Pending B748 Order: 20 f
177 Post contains images Dougloid : Sheesh...we may be a bunch of backwoodsmen here but we sure as hell know who's wearing the pants in THAT marriage. Errrrrrrrrr.......I'm not much int
178 Stitch : Such a thought never crossed my mind, to be honest.
179 Halls120 : I'll wager you have no problem with those US airlines that have an "Airbus only" policy, correct?
180 ER757 : I really hope this was just an attempt to be humorous. The chances of LH canceling their A380 order are about the same as WN placing one.
181 Zvezda : Not at all. As 11bravo expressed so well, there would be no reason for LH to take 20 options in addition to 20 firm orders unless they were consideri
182 ScottB : Actually, it has very little to do with where I live or the fact that Lufthansa is German; rather, it is that Lufthansa has ordered precious few airl
183 NAV20 : Surely what we're really talking about is the 747 replacement market? If this order comes off, it will be proof positive that Boeing has a product th
184 RedFlyer : That was in fact their hope and, dare I say, part of their market analysis back in the late 1990's. There's a couple of articles floating around wher
185 Justloveplanes : Combinations to watch: 787, 777 and A380 - Emirates, Singapore, maybe Quantas, Thai - Asia Pacific A380, 747, A350WXB, 787? - LH and maybe VS, BA, AF
186 ER757 : 2 things - #1 - this order isn't even confirmed yet so it's a bit early to to be bandying about the numbers of firm orders and options. #2 - Even if
187 Post contains images Stitch : For the record, the first airline to sign a large "exclusivity agreement" with a manufacturer was... US Airways... with Airbus... for the A320 family
188 Eureka : Every one of the planes in this purchase, which will be confirmed soon now, is for a passenger 747-8. Abandon all hope of any other outcome.
189 Zvezda : That what the WSJ, BusinessWeek, etc. are all reporting, but let's wait and see. The press have been wrong before.
190 Eureka : My only reaction to the WSJ and BusinessWeek this morning was the following. Who's loose lips are trying to sink my ships?
191 N328KF : To be fair, WSJ never said what the product mix was—only that it was definitely for some 747-8 Intercontinentals. Anyhow, the only aircraft order i
192 Coa747 : This just proves the point that many have been making about the A380. When the program was launched it was assumed that airlines would replace 747-400
193 Post contains images NAV20 : Zvezda, I don't see much likelihood of the existing A380 orders being cancelled. Not at this stage, anyway. LH will be getting them pretty cheap! Coul
194 Longhaulheavy : You never know. WN could just get a few A380s, fly them coast to coast, and throw people out along the way.
195 N328KF : Or just detach ATR-42s along the way, XF-85-style.
196 MCIGuy : I see this shaking out with the 15 A380's on order, but no excercised options, and the 20 748i's, with no excercised options. This willl give LH the e
197 Luke7e7 : I just checked out the 747 website, and on the pictures they have there, it looks like the 748I will have a 764 slyle window, anybody knows anything a
198 N328KF : Actually, they're the 777 windows.
199 Post contains links Sq212 : Reported by JW: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/294843_boeing06.html Cheers.
200 Post contains images Columba : Are you refering to the internal RFP ? It is said that the 787 was the winner. Airbus has now redesigned the A350 and LH will now evaluate this new v
201 Post contains images Iwok : Well, for what its worth I called this back in February after reading the Lufthansa in-flight mag. There was a guy from Technik talking about a 747 m
202 Planemaker : Well, they could have been monitoring RATI. Guy Norris published his piece on 05 Dec 06 at 08:58 GMT. Guy Norris' article states that it is for 20+20
203 Pelican : Sure the French. But that doesn't mean that Germany would end its Airbus commitment. Do you have an idea how many jobs depend on Airbus in Germany an
204 ComeAndGo : Some of those 20 orders and options might be freighters. I don't think LH can afford to cancel the A380 with its position in Germany. Germany fought
205 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Lufthansa is not cancelling their A380 order. A Lufthansa spokeswoman declined to comment on any pending deals with Boeing, but she said the carrier i
206 WINGS : While I have never believed for one minute that LH would cancel their A380 order, I do feel that an eventual conversion of the A380 options, can be a
207 Post contains links Columba : As USAF336TFS has pointed out this is for the passenger version of the 747-8 only and he is a very reliable source in that matter: http://seattletime
208 Thorben : To a certain extent it is always like that with the French. However, what are they doing now that is different from how it has been in the past? Germ
209 Scouseflyer : Depends on the small print on the options.
210 Aither : The one to one replacement was not between the 747s and the A380s but between the 747s and the VLA market. The 747i is part of the VLA market.
211 WINGS : Just one observation if I may. With the latest conversion of A380 orders LH will in fact be the forth largest operator, and not the second like many n
212 PanAm_DC10 : Lufthansa CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber has stated that the A380 Options will be decided on at a later date. That was about 1 or 2 months ago Wings so it mi
213 ComeAndGo : Either the reporter is full of Sh*t or he knows something we don't.
214 Columba : Maybe he is counting the options for another 15 aircraft. Also Mr.Mayhuber recently said recently that LH always placed additional orders for their a
215 Slz396 : A reporter knowing more than the readers? Shouldn't he then be doing his job and break the news? No, I wouldn't read too much in these reports, since
216 Columba : I was only quoting the article from the Seattle P.I. if you read my comments in this thread you will see that I have said the same things as PanAm-Dc
217 Slz396 : Absolutely, my apologies if it came across as if I was eplying to you in person. I thought that it would have been clear enough I was rather talking
218 Glideslope : Easy, Global Politics.
219 Post contains links Lumberton : FI has now picked up the story: http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...continental+passenger+variant.html
220 Columba : Maybe we could close this thread an open another one 220 posts are pretty much. Or will we better wait for an official announcement to start a new thr
221 Dutchjet : Quick note - in the Financial Section of the Dutch newspaper, the Telegraph, there is a large article stating that LH has in fact ordered 20 Boeing 74
222 N328KF : Boeing has five billion in the bank. They actually had seven billion in the bank just a quarter before. Looks like that difference went for three thi
223 AA777223 : Uh oh, What fine was this?
224 BoomBoom : What it shows is they're very careful of how they spend their money. They aren't going to waste $15 billion on a small slice of the market.
225 Post contains links Keesje : Joint Boeing-DoD effort to keep EADS out of competition for the tanker requirement, hiring Dod staff & their families etc. http://www.commondreams.or
226 Post contains links Leelaw : Boeing's Carson Has No Comment On Lufthansa 747-8 Order DOW JONES NEWSWIRES December 6, 2006 10:15 a.m. CHICAGO (Dow Jones)--Scott Carson, head of Boe
227 AirTran737 : It had to do with selling 737NG's to China. The 737NG has a chip in it that has to be approved by the DOD in order to be sold to another country. I'm
228 AirTran737 : Oh hell, here you go. Boeing has paid the largest fine ever levied on a company for violation of the Arms Export Control Act, settling a dispute with
229 Post contains links Keesje : Damn hard to find but it wat actually $615 million to the department of justice, http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q4/061025a_nr.pdf
230 AerospaceFan : It appears that LH has made the official announcement and Boeing has issued a press release confirming the order for 20 747 Intercontinentals. [EDIT:
231 Post contains links and images Keesje : " target=_blank>http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...story Marketwatch now: The order for the 747s could be seen by some as a blow to Airbus. http:
232 Post contains links and images N1786b : You didn't look hard enough - too much cool-aid this morning? http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q2/060515a_nr.html Boeing Statement Regarding
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