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A340F In DHL Fleet 10 Or 20 Years From Now?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3649 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

In 10 or 20 years airlines or going to start replacing their Airbus A340. That will leave a surplus of A340, and since DHL has A300 in their fleet, it would be a great ideal for them to get convert some A340's into freighters. The A340 has a large cargo capacity four engines, so they would not need to think about ETOP. Also if they get a used A340 500, they would have an aircraft with outstanding range. I like to see an Airbus A340 in DHL fleet and believe it help their over seas network, what do you think?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

It wouldn't surprise me, particularly given the lack of success of the A340-5/600 in recent years. Once these aircraft leave pax service, what will happen to them; despite the lack of respect they often get, they are perfectly fine aircraft and I'm sure they could be made to work as freighters; better that than an early appointment at Marana ...

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
In 10 or 20 years airlines or going to start replacing their Airbus A340. That will leave a surplus of A340, and since DHL has A300 in their fleet, it would be a great ideal for them to get convert some A340's into freighters. The A340 has a large cargo capacity four engines, so they would not need to think about ETOP. Also if they get a used A340 500, they would have an aircraft with outstanding range. I like to see an Airbus A340 in DHL fleet and believe it help their over seas network, what do you think?

I was not aware that Freighters had ETOPS issues. Either way I would love to see the A340 series ending up it's career with cargo operators, it will be the A330 series that will have the largest interest among cargo carries, mainly for the reason of the latter being a twin.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4497 times:
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The thing with the A340 is that IMHO the only ones that could be used as freighters are the 500 and 600. The 200 and 300 are underpowered, and I am not sure that they would be an economically viable freighter. The 600 would be an awesome freighter, shes a big girl, with a lot of room. We'll see what happens.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6489 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

You should put a question mark at the end of your title.

Are the A340s all that well suited for cargo? The street vibe is that the -200/-300 are underpowered, though I do not know myself. Certainly, the -500/-600 would be more bulk-oriented.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
particularly given the lack of success of the A340-5/600 in recent years. Once these aircraft leave pax service, what will happen to them;

Perhaps you should look toward the MD-11 for an exemple.  Smile

Cheers.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
The 200 and 300 are underpowered, and I am not sure that they would be an economically viable freighter.



Quoting N328KF (Reply 4):
The street vibe is that the -200/-300 are underpowered, though I do not know myself.

This is a pure Airliners.net URBAN MYTH. (a very stupid one) if I may add. I have never seen any A342/3 falling from the skies, and I doubt that anyone has either. They don't even fall in the desert for that matter as all A342/3 are currently in service.except (1x A342 VIP)

The only issue involving the A342/3 is the slow climb rate. Apart from this, it is still a very capable and reliable airplane.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
In 10 or 20 years airlines or going to start replacing their Airbus A340. That will leave a surplus of A340, and since DHL has A300 in their fleet, it would be a great ideal for them to get convert some A340's into freighters. The A340 has a large cargo capacity four engines, so they would not need to think about ETOP. Also if they get a used A340 500, they would have an aircraft with outstanding range. I like to see an Airbus A340 in DHL fleet and believe it help their over seas network, what do you think?

A cargo aircraft have to handle a higher payload than a pax aircraft does, and that reduces the range dramatically, if you look at the 777F, 748F and A380F, the range of the freighter is about 60% of the range of the pax version. Why? Because it's more important to carry alot of cargo rather than carrying it for long distances, which requires more fuel.
ETOPS will not be a concern for a cargo carrier, since the routes aren't that long that they fly over such areas.
The A340 won't be an optimum freighter, it doesn't have a great internal volume compared to its weight, the A330 will be a much better freighter. When it comes to the A340NG, the older A340 are probably more suited.
Range isn't that important when carrying cargo, payload is.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
In 10 or 20 years airlines or going to start replacing their Airbus A340

Some started in 1998  duck 

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
That will leave a surplus of A340, and since DHL has A300 in their fleet, it would be a great ideal for them to get convert some A340's into freighters.

Problem being, the 772ER will make a much more suitable freighter conversion than the A340. There are plenty of examples of passenger aircraft not making suitable cargo conversions, and the A340 doesn't have a lot working for it.

What would be more reasonable would be for DHL to peruse A332 conversions. The payload density and economics greatly favor the A332 over the A333, A343, or A345/A346.

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
. The A340 has a large cargo capacity four engines, so they would not need to think about ETOP. Also if they get a used A340 500, they would have an aircraft with outstanding range.

Neither of those points are particularly significant.

Cargo aircraft typically fly as close to max payload as possible, which greatly reduce the range figures quoted for passenger variants. A loaded 777F (which is built from the 9,500 nm 772LR) only has a range of about 5,500 nm.

Mass ratios and lb economics are more important than raw still-air range figures. Keep in mind there are very few A345 even built and those are all very new. Not to mention, the A345 has an extremely high OEW and surprisingly low payload uplift (relative to its direct competitors)

As for ETOPS, since cargo is rarely flown on long-haul routings, there are very few ETOPS zones where a cargo aircraft would even venture. Maintaining ETOPS 138 is really a non-issue


User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 6):
I have never seen any A342/3 falling from the skies

Or failed to take off! And I regularly see MK A343s takeoff very heavy for their long journey from GVA to MRU (9023 km).

Cheers.

[Edited 2006-12-05 21:04:51]

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6489 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 9):
Or failed to take off!

That's not true at all. EK did have an A340-313X, I think it was, fall into a ditch at JNB.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
That's not true at all. EK did have an A340-313X, I think it was, fall into a ditch at JNB.

There's only one incident of an EK A340-313X hapening at JNB that I know (April 9th, 2004). In that case, the aircraft failed to lift off when it was expected, so the pilot had to apply TOGA power, thus making the aircraft takeoff 150m down the overrun area. Immediatly after, the crew decided to come back at JNB, and dumped fuel. From what I remember, its more a pilot error than an airframe problem, and the aircraft did not end up in a ditch. But you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I've just done a quick search and have found this article.

Emirates censured in Airbus A340 Johannesburg runway overrun probe

Cheers.

[Edited 2006-12-05 21:30:34]

User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
A300 in their fleet

What about their 757/767 fleet? Of course there are several airlines involved in hauling DHL's freight, but I am leaning towards a twin. The 777/333/332 will be front runners to anything with 4 engines.

M


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 11):
From what I remember, its more a pilot error than an airframe problem, and the aircraft did not end up in a ditch. But you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct the Pilot entered wrong FMC data and so the V1 Vr and V2 speed were wrong and so he pulled the plane to early, dragged the tail for around 150m and after applying TOGA he managed to lift off. Fuel was dumped and on landing the brakes failed after being damaged from the overunn but the plane managed to stop before the end of the runway.

Cheers Leo



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