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DC-10 = MD-10?  
User currently offlineKiwiTEAL From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 253 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Looking at todays photo line up......... How does an ex-Hawian DC-10-30, become a "M-10F". Am I silly, or should this really read as a DC-10-30F?

Does the conversion to freight, and any other work upgrage it to the M class, or has the photographer just changed the class ?

John
KiwiTEAL

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3393 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 5070 times:

From what I understand a MD10 is a DC10 with the MD11's glass cockpit.

Someone please correct me if I'm talking nonsense!


User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
Someone please correct me if I'm talking nonsense!

You're correct Scouseflyer  Smile The Md-10 and the Md-11 has a common type rating, making it much easier for carriers like FX to operate both of them.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3393 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

So to re-ask KiwiTeal's question that I ducked - can the glass cockpit be retro fitted to a DC10 to make it a MD10?

User currently offlineKiwiTEAL From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 5062 times:

Ok - so its basically just a cockpit refit - as well as the freight conversion? no re-engining or anything like that?

John
KiwiTEAL


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting Brendows (Reply 2):

It is also upgraded Avonics too.

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineEFHK From Finland, joined Nov 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months ago) and read 4948 times:

Our very own A.net has some info here:  Smile

http://www1.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=279



One of the best places in the world: McDonald's in T2 at FRA.
User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting KiwiTEAL (Reply 4):
as well as the freight conversion?

I might be wrong, but I don't think it needs to be converted for freight. I doubt any passanger carriers have converted DC's to MD-10's, but I think it is just the cockpit.


User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 7):
I might be wrong, but I don't think it needs to be converted for freight. I doubt any passanger carriers have converted DC's to MD-10's, but I think it is just the cockpit.

IIRC, National was interested in the MD-10 program... before they were bought out by PanAm.

Boeing also did conversions of DC9s to 717s. With only a few supporters, Boeing stopped the program short... or something to that manner  sarcastic 


User currently offlineLVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4734 times:

I thought FedEx was the only carrier that went through the MD-10 conversion program. Basically, a DC-10 airframe with MD-11 avionics. The interesting thing is that you only need 2 pilots, as opposed to 3 in the DC-10.

MB


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 9):
The interesting thing is that you only need 2 pilots, as opposed to 3 in the DC-10.

not interesting at all. Eliminating the flight engineer is the whole point behind the conversion.


User currently offlinePelican22 From Ireland, joined Mar 2006, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

Only DC10-10s, ex AA and UA were converted to MD10s,which entailed conversion to a 2 crew and glass cockpit,no DC10-15s,30s or 40s were converted.

User currently offlinePennPal From United States of America, joined May 2004, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

I thought I had read somewhere that this program had been canceled. FedEx had bought a large amount of planes to be converted, but after 9/11 all aircraft not converted at that time were to be scrapped. However, the picture that KiwiTEAL refers to shows a MD10 modification taking place on July 18th of this year. So.....it the program still on, or is the work being done to this DC10 just taking a very long time to complete???

User currently offlineEx52tech From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 559 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

Quoting KiwiTEAL (Reply 4):
no re-engining or anything like that?

The only one I ever remember re-engining the DC-10 was JAL. They replaced their P&W JT-9-20s, which is a JT-9-7A, with JT-9-7R4s, which is then designated a JT-9-59A. They had to re-certify the aircraft with that mod. Quite and expensive undertaking. NWA was offered the same deal by P&W, but chose to stick with their -20 and -20J engines. The -20J is a -7J. The engine swap increased the thrust output by some 3,500lb each, and P&W actually had parts for the -59A's.



"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

Quoting PennPal (Reply 12):
I thought I had read somewhere that this program had been canceled.

Um, probably this unlocked thread?  sarcastic  Gotta love civ av  Silly.

Fed-Ex MD-10 Question


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4223 times:

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 8):
Boeing also did conversions of DC9s to 717s. With only a few supporters, Boeing stopped the program short... or something to that manner sarcastic

Hsve not heard of that before, but I have read that AC & Finnair looked seriously at a rework of their combined DC9 fleets back in the early 80s.

--glass cockpit
--RR/BMW 715 engines
--zero-timed airframe

that would have yielded essentially a MD95/717-type a/c. Ultimately both opted for the Airbi family, however.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

Quoting Pelican22 (Reply 11):
no DC10-15s,30s or 40s were converted.

Of the seven DC-10-15, three have already been scrapped, and the four others are stored or impounded like 48258.

FX has converted some of its DC-10-30F to MD-10-30F - N301/302/303/311/312 & 316FE.

Of the 22 DC-10-40 that were delivered to NW, none are going to have a two-man cockpit, as they have all been withdrawn from use, and are in the process of being scrapped, if it hasn't already happened to some. Maybe we'll see MD-10-40F appear if some of the ex. JL aircraft are to be converted.

Cheers.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 3):
So to re-ask KiwiTeal's question that I ducked - can the glass cockpit be retro fitted to a DC10 to make it a MD10?

Um, yes.

Quoting KiwiTEAL (Reply 4):
Ok - so its basically just a cockpit refit - as well as the freight conversion? no re-engining or anything like that?

No re-engining. Actually, I read an article several years ago by a pilot who had flown both aircraft saying that the flying characteristics were so significantly different that he didn't see how they could co-type them.

Quoting Pelican22 (Reply 11):
Only DC10-10s, ex AA and UA were converted to MD10s,which entailed conversion to a 2 crew and glass cockpit,no DC10-15s,30s or 40s were converted.

Incorrect. FX has MD10-30s in their fleet and is likely converting more.

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 16):
Maybe we'll see MD-10-40F appear if some of the ex. JL aircraft are to be converted.

I doubt FX would want to screw around with JT9's



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
I read an article several years ago by a pilot who had flown both aircraft saying that the flying characteristics were so significantly different

That's a true statement...the MD-10 flies like a DC-10 and the MD-11 flies like a ...MD-11.


User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Incorrect. FX has MD10-30s in their fleet and is likely converting more.

As I also said.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
I doubt FX would want to screw around with JT9's

I didn't meant FX, but there are the four DC-10-40Fs that are flying with SU, plus one with Arrow Cargo. Don't forget that Omega Air is trying to develop an air tanker from the conversion of the ex. JL DC-10-40 that are stored at the moment. So maybe they'll also get the new cockpit. But that is only speculation.

Cheers.


User currently offlineDispatcher From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 254 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

FedEx is the ONLY operator of MD10's. FedEx is the ONLY company having DC10's converted to MD10's at this time. The conversion process is still ongoing. The latest MD10 conversion was N367FE, which did it's first revenue flight on Nov 30, 2006. There are currently 7 DC10's in the MD10 conversion process. 30 more DC10's are planned for conversion. Of the 30 planned for conversion, but not currently in the conversion process, 23 of those are currently flying for FedEx, the other 7 are stored. Conversions are scheduled to be complete by 2011. After the program is finished, FedEx will operate 83 MD10's and 0 DC10's.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6489 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

Quoting Dispatcher (Reply 20):
FedEx is the ONLY operator of MD10's. FedEx is the ONLY company having DC10's converted to MD10's at this time.

You know who seems like a good candidate for the MD-10 program? The Department of Defense.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineDispatcher From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 254 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 21):
You know who seems like a good candidate for the MD-10 program? The Department of Defense

That would be pretty cool, what would they call it, the KD-10? I think (but I'm not sure) the problem with the Air Force KC10's is they are simply wearing out structurally, not necessarily that they want to save money on flight crews. But like I said, I'm not sure.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 21):
You know who seems like a good candidate for the MD-10 program? The Department of Defense.

The KC-10 turned out to be one big pile of sh!t for the Air Force and was never really needed. I have a friend who was chief mechanic on a KC-10 crew and she hated that plane. Hopefully, Congress will see straight and just replace the whole tanker fleet with the KC-767



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
I have a friend who was chief mechanic on a KC-10 crew and she hated that plane.

And that makes it a fact? I also know a few guys that fly them and they never said that.


25 474218 : I think you should have your memory checked. o National Airlines was bought by Pan Am in 1980. o The MD-11 program was launched in 1986, first flew i
26 N328KF : I can't see it being referred to by anything other than KC-10B.
27 Dispatcher : KC-10B does sound better. Heck, DC-10B sounds better than MD-10. But that would have been a little confusing in day to day operations.
28 TrijetsRMissed : Really? The Air Force fleet is newer than 99% of the DC-10s remaining in service. Exactly, I have heard it was a good aircraft too. You can't take a
29 Magyarorszag : The MD-11 first flew January 10th, 1990, and the first aircraft was delivered to AY December 7th, 1990. FedEx officially commited itself to the MD-10
30 CosmicCruiser : You are correct. We have both -10s and -30s modified. The mod was a significant inprovement with the glass and all the "bells and whistles" but many
31 Post contains images Nosedive : Sucker born every minute
32 Ex52tech : Well the JL -40s would be a better choice, the JT-9-7R4s they have on them have more power, and there is a more redilly available supply of parts for
33 474218 : Boeing web site states 1997? I was off a year. Both were still way before National was bought out by Pan Am.
34 Dispatcher : Please quote accurately before slamming me for something I admitted to not knowing, the begining part of the sentence read: Admittedly I should have
35 Olympus69 : Perhaps that's because they don't have to maintain them.
36 CosmicCruiser : Most pilots, including myself, don't like to fly planes that break alot.
37 Post contains links and images Magyarorszag : View Large View MediumPhoto © Derek Hellmann You can still try your chance to get one preserved. I'm just amazed that so many are still around,
38 N1120A : She wasn't disgruntled at all, she loved her time in the Air Force. She just noted that it was a bear to take care of, particularly after the Barksda
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