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3rd A380 Delay Known To Insiders In March?  
User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

According to this Forbes article quoting Le Monde, it is suspected that some executives knew of the true A380 delay as early as last March. 800 EADS employees sold shares after a March 7 meeting in Amsterdam, apparently. Daimler/Chrysler is also now part of the inquiry.
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2006/12/06/afx3231780.html


Jets are for kids
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

The best you could say for sellers in such a situation is "not very bright", it was hardly going to go unnoticed. The penalties will exceed any savings in losses. What will Le Flick tell us?

User currently offlineOwleye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 962 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...

User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Quoting from EADS press release:

EADS would like to make the following clarifications about the sale of EADS shares and the exercise of options by Executive Committee members having received them under an allocation programme.

The insider trading rules of EADS, which comply with trading regulations applicable in the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain, stipulate that such directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year) and provided they do not have any privileged information and subject to prior approval by the EADS Compliance Officer (authority appointed by the Company’s Board of Directors to guarantee strict compliance with these rules on its behalf).

Such a period was opened from March 8 to 28, 2006. Six directors duly exercised their options during this period following the process described above.

http://www.eads.com/web/lang/en/1024...F00000040950509/9/15/41389159.html

I have also been told that non director level large share holding employees were also restricted to these dates and stipulations.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
The insider trading rules of EADS, which comply with trading regulations applicable in the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain, stipulate that such directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year) and provided they do not have any privileged information and subject to prior approval by the EADS Compliance Officer (authority appointed by the Company's Board of Directors to guarantee strict compliance with these rules on its behalf).

This is certainly the case and the case against the sellers seems by no means open or shut. However, if they knew of the problems, I presume the selling window does not provide an excuse - or are you saying it does Richard?


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

I think anyone with an ounce of sense walking through the factory or sitting in a booth in the bars and cafes around the Toulouse plant where the worker bees hang out and chat could have figured this out.

Factory workers are remarkably well informed about matters that affect their paychecks. It would have been easy enough for any airline rep to see what the course of events might well be.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting Owleye (Reply 2):
Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...

You obviously need a stiff lecture from those opposed to RLI for Airbus, Owleye. Having shares and shareholders prevents companies from taking silly decisions (like BHP Billiton spending about $A3 billion on Hot Briquetted Iron) and allows shareholder to guide the company into the paths of righteousness and good practice. (Leans over to flick the "heavy irony" button to the OFF position!!)  ashamed 


User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Quoting Owleye (Reply 2):
Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...

Without shareholders, there would be no company!!! How do you think a company is started?


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
Quoting Owleye (Reply 2):
Never have believed in shares and shareholders. It's all about money making istead of passion and care for companies. I have not a single share, I work for my money. Shareholders destroy companies...


You obviously need a stiff lecture from those opposed to RLI for Airbus, Owleye. Having shares and shareholders prevents companies from taking silly decisions (like BHP Billiton spending about $A3 billion on Hot Briquetted Iron) and allows shareholder to guide the company into the paths of righteousness and good practice. (Leans over to flick the "heavy irony" button to the OFF position!!)

I think I hear refrains from the "Internationale" playing in the background?  Smile


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 7):
Without shareholders, there would be no company!!! How do you think a company is started?

Maybe he only wants to believe in one shareholder: the government.  Wink



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 968 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
stipulate that such directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year) and provided they do not have any privileged information

[Bolded text my emphasis] This is the part that sends you to jail. Anyone who knew non-public information, and sold or traded shares based on that information... is criminally liable even if done in the option exercise window.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 10):
[Bolded text my emphasis] This is the part that sends you to jail. Anyone who knew non-public information, and sold or traded shares based on that information... is criminally liable even if done in the option exercise window.

Yes, that is the typical basis for an insider trading suit and if proven true then not only are those shareholders going to be in trouble, but also EADS Compliance Officer, since he would have had to agree to every sale.


User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 11):
Yes, that is the typical basis for an insider trading suit and if proven true then not only are those shareholders going to be in trouble, but also EADS Compliance Officer, since he would have had to agree to every sale.

Not to mention Noel.... now does ANYBODY still believe he had no idea what was going on in Toulouse at the time?

-n1786b


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 12):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 11):
Yes, that is the typical basis for an insider trading suit and if proven true then not only are those shareholders going to be in trouble, but also EADS Compliance Officer, since he would have had to agree to every sale.

Not to mention Noel.... now does ANYBODY still believe he had no idea what was going on in Toulouse at the time?

I know I am unusual (but not I think alone), but actually I don't know. He might, and he might not. The French police will let us know.
(Leans over to swap from Marseillaise back to the Internationale)


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Leans over to swap from Marseillaise back to the Internationale

 rotfl  Baroque, I always enjoy your dry sense of humor.


User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 4):
directors may only exercise their stock options within certain specific periods (4 opening periods of 3 weeks each year)

FOUR opening periods of THREE weeks a year?

That's supposed to be restrictive?  Confused


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 15):
FOUR opening periods of THREE weeks a year?

Probably intended to allow them to trade occasionally but keep them away from quarterly reporting season. I've seen U.S. firms that basically would have their windows in the middle of each quarter.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2943 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 14):
Baroque, I always enjoy your dry sense of humor.

You are most welcome, a little humour might help what is a rather serious subject. Noel (and others) could end up with a few years in what the Brits charmingly refer to as the chokey. (I don't know what the current French argot is for it, perhaps someone will tell us.)

Even when matters appear as clear as crystal, insider trading seems to be difficult to prove. In this particular case there is also this strange issue both of the window and the frequency of trades. I don't know if the EADS site still shows the 2005 and 2004 histories, but they were busy little bees even when the EADS prices were up and there were no nasty clouds caught up in the wiring of the A380 - makes it all sound like a WWII balloon barrage, which is what it might well be like.

But anyway, with that history, I am blessed if I know what would constitute an unusual pattern of trades. There is no significance to the wife and children trades I am told - all part and parcel (pun intended) of that lovely practice of remuneration packaging.

So, we can speculate, but basically we need to wait until the French police tell us what they think. Assuming the Napoleonic code does its thing, there will be investigations that will be very thorough - sticks right hand back in front of shirt (or was it the left?).


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

IIRC, there is a similar probe in Germany, as well a shareholders suit.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
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