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380 Versus 748 In Terms Of Sales  
User currently offlineBOEING747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 319 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3973 times:

Do you think the 748 production will also be delayed due to wiring problems like the 380 or not? I can see that the 748 will probably sell much better than the 380 since my guess is that its' production rate will be much faster and pretty similar to that of a 744 (inferring from the fact that the 748 is only a little bit bigger than the 744). Can anybody please elaborate more on this? Thank you very much!

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3974 times:

I think Boeing will probably monitor the development and engineering of the 748 very closely to make sure that the wiring problems with the A380 do not happen with the 748.

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4634 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Quoting BOEING747400 (Thread starter):
Do you think the 748 production will also be delayed due to wiring problems like the 380 or not?

I don't think so... the issues with the A380 wiring were a first for any company for that type of issue. I would place money on it being the first and last time it ever happens. If you'd read up, you would see it was due to design software incompatibility, with some people on one page and others on another.

Quoting BOEING747400 (Thread starter):
I can see that the 748 will probably sell much better than the 380 since my guess is that its' production rate will be much faster and pretty similar to that of a 744 (inferring from the fact that the 748 is only a little bit bigger than the 744). Can anybody please elaborate more on this? Thank you very much!

I think you're completely off base on that one. The production rate has no bearing on the amount of sales an aircraft will garner. History suggests that as more orders come in, production rates are adjusted to meet the demand (and vice versa).

I would place bets on United replacing their 744s with 748s. Another contender for the 2010+ area would be British Airways. You could probably add Cathay Pacific to that mix. Any airline that operates very long haul high demand routes would be contenders for either aircraft, dependent on demand.

I'm interested to see what Qantas are going to do. They have A380s for the 500 passenger segment, then 744s with 340-360 pax, and in a couple of years 787-8 and 9 with 280 to 300 passengers. I wonder if they will have a need to fill the 350 seat gap. At this stage I am betting on 787-10s once it's launched, but they could well go for 748s with 400 pax.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3718 times:

The 747 series has been around for 36-37 years and B know the model so I doubt they´ll have wiring problem.
A380 is a brand new conseption from the w-lets to the lav´s plus it´s pax config goes from 555 to 800 wich 748i never can take...well, if you want the one class sardin version  
In terms of sales time will tell..

No wonder people call 748i Stuffed Turkey

Micke//   

[Edited 2006-12-06 22:28:46]

[Edited 2006-12-06 22:30:03]


Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30857 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3708 times:
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Quoting BOEING747400 (Thread starter):
Do you think the 748 production will also be delayed due to wiring problems like the 380 or not?

Unlikely. Boeing learned from the wiring mess that was the 747-400 and should not suffer such problems again.

Quoting BOEING747400 (Thread starter):
I can see that the 748 will probably sell much better than the 380 since my guess is that its' production rate will be much faster and pretty similar to that of a 744.

Airbus (by necessity) is planning a very aggressive production schedule for the A388 once they are able to re-start production. As such, Airbus should be able to clear their current order book by 2012-2013.

While 748I availability should be better then the A388's for the first few years of the 2010's, chances are Airbus will be able to meet demand and purchasing decisions between the two will most likely not be weighed on availability.


User currently offlineJeffB From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3694 times:
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This brings up an interesting question...

Do anyone think the 747-8i will be using the wireless technology for IFE like the 787? I could see that being a HUGE win for weight loss considering the amount of seats being installed!

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q3/nr_050930g.html


.jeff


User currently offlineGrantcv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
The 747 series has been around for 36-37 years and B know the model so I doubt they´ll have wiring problem.

Boeing had serious wiring problems with the introduction of the B744. (and Air Force One around the same time). They made their mistakes back then and probably won't do that again. The A380's nightmare should only emphasize that issue for them. Maybe they will go the B787's route and use wireless IFE systems to reduce the wiring complexity - and weight.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

AF1 is two (2) 747-200, it´s jam packed with satellite telephones and lots of secret stuff that we dont know about, I call them quite another wiring problems..

Micke// Big grin



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Quoting JeffB (Reply 5):
Do anyone think the 747-8i will be using the wireless technology for IFE like the 787? I could see that being a HUGE win for weight loss considering the amount of seats being installed!

Yes, it will. I attended a Boeing presentation at a conference yesterday and wireless IFE was specifically mentioned as one of the weight-saving features of the 747-8. It should be quite an impressive aircraft.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
No wonder people call 748i Stuffed Turkey

Really, who are these "people"?

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe, que la vida es breve


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 7):
AF1 is two (2) 747-200, it´s jam packed with satellite telephones and lots of secret stuff that we dont know about, I call them quite another wiring problems..

They are hardly regular 747-200s. Even in a "green" state, they had 747-400 engines and other components.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

@ N328KF

You know what I mean with AF 1 and the gadgets n gizmos in those 747. What I´ve read here is that the model was orginally 747-200 fuselage, but I might be wrong. We can agree that´s a 747 model, nes pas?

Micke//  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineGrantcv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 7):
AF1 is two (2) 747-200, it´s jam packed with satellite telephones and lots of secret stuff that we dont know about, I call them quite another wiring problems..

Air Force One was a good stretch project for teaching Boeing how to do it right. The lessons learned from that project probably significantly improved Boeing ability to do wiring.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30857 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3369 times:
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Quoting Grantcv (Reply 12):
Air Force One was a good stretch project for teaching Boeing how to do it right. The lessons learned from that project probably significantly improved Boeing ability to do wiring.

And I imagine the E-4A and E-4B NEACP ("Kneecaps") built in the 1970's taught Boeing a thing or two about how to wire a 747 frame.  Wink


User currently offlineEureka From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3141 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
The 747 series has been around for 36-37 years and B know the model so I doubt they´ll have wiring problem.
A380 is a brand new conseption from the w-lets to the lav´s plus it´s pax config goes from 555 to 800 wich 748i never can take...well, if you want the one class sardin version
In terms of sales time will tell..

No wonder people call 748i Stuffed Turkey

The more compelling argument is that the A380 unnecessarily carries a lead weight around due to being an 800 passenger aircraft that is regularly configured for only 550 passengers due to the limitations of the airports and the lack of peoples' desire to get stuffed that densely. A 747-8I nominally configured with 450 passengers is obviously much more structurally efficient.


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