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EK Plans To Order Up To 50 Or More Mid-size Jets  
User currently offlineT773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14269 times:

Emirates to order 50 mid-size jets
By Ivan Gale, Staff Reporter



Dubai: Emirates has plans to order up to 50 or more mid-size jets to fill a gap in its fleet, a company official confirmed.

Mike Simon, senior vice president of corporate communications for Emirates, said the airline was talking to Airbus about its new A350XWB and to Boeing about its 787 Dreamliner to expand its fleet of planes in the 250- to 350-passenger category.

"It probably would be around 50, or maybe more," Simon said. At around $150 million per plane according to list price, such an order would come out to $7.5 billion.

Emirates already has about 100 planes on order, including 43 of the giant Airbus A380s which are suffering a 22-month delay.

Emirates has given its design preferences to both manufacturers, said Simon, suggesting that the company that Emirates selects for the contract may be the one that changes its planes to fit its needs.

'Nitty-gritty'

"We have talked to Boeing and we are hoping that they will eventually produce a 787 with a longer range and a bit higher [seating] capacity," Simon said. He also said Emirates still needed to get into the "nitty-gritty" and see what the A350 planes could do. "It's still in the very early stages," he said.

On December 1 Airbus announced it would go ahead with the A350XWB, a larger, more powerful version of its A350 with a carry capacity of between 270 to 350 passengers.

The first of the A350WXB planes will be ready in 2012, right at the time Emirates will replace its Airbus A330 aircraft and its older Boeing 777s.

I'd have to put my money on the 787, just because its a better plane than the A350. I think Boeings got the deal sealed if they decide on making the 787-10

[Edited 2006-12-07 02:17:29]


"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14263 times:

I expect EK will order the B787-10 and eventually pressure Boeing to launch a B787-11.

[Edited 2006-12-07 02:24:15]

User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14201 times:

Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
Emirates has given its design preferences to both manufacturers, said Simon, suggesting that the company that Emirates selects for the contract may be the one that changes its planes to fit its needs.

How arrogant of them. Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs? Over what, a 50 plane order? Hell, you only have 2 planes to choose from, better take which one is closest to what you want rather than waiting for someone to change a design to fit their specific characteristics.
I could see someone doing it when the planes are flying and have paid back development costs. The 764 is an example. But as of today I doubt anyone is devoting resources developing a plane to fill an order like this.

Anyway, thats just my opinion. Flame away.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14139 times:

I read PPRUNE occasionally, and one of the recurring themes in the "Mideast" forum is the challenges EK faces recruiting pilots. They can order all the aircraft they want. They still have to have the staff to crew them.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3310 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14126 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
How arrogant of them. Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs?

What's the worst A + B could say? No?

EK's not holding a gun to anyone's head to say yes...



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14130 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs

Sorry to break the news to you, but this happens all of the time and launch customers have a lot of imput into the design/performance of a new model airliners. Remember the 777 and the Working Together team?

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
Over what, a 50 plane order?

You bet.....thats over $5 billion...for that kind of money, when EK talks, both Airbus and Boeing will listen. And, neither A or B is going to build a custom airliner for EK, they will simply try to accommodate EK's wishes and come up with a design that will satisfy EK and other customers. The development of the 787-10 has been accelerated to keep EK happy.....they are looking for an airplane thats bigger than the 789 already launched by Boeing.

-----------------

Arent these the same 50 mid-sized jets that EK was to order earlier in the year.....many thought that something would be announced at Farborough but nothing happened. Is EK now ready to make their move?


User currently offlineGrantcv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14105 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
Boeing to launch a B787-11.

There will never be a B787-11. It won't work, the plane will be too long. The B773 is already at the limits - so making a narrower plane have the same capacity will never work.


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14076 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
How arrogant of them. Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs?

Well they wouldn't be the first airline to do this. I remember an airline requesting a couple of shorthaul jets be built that fit their specific routes, and got a company to go along with it. The airline-SAS. The planes-DC9-20,and DC9-40. Total orders for DC9-20=10. Total for the DC9-40=71. If somebody wants your business bad enough, they'll build it.


User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13988 times:

For Boeing it would make sense to make the -10 if 50 frames are involved. For Airbus, they should not as they need the customers in the mainstream requirement to get it, and generate cashflow first. Boeing already has enough frames on firm to pay for the development and then some.....
As someone stated, if they build the -10, they probably can bag the deal....


User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13976 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
this happens all of the time and launch customers have a lot of imput into the design/performance of a new model airliners

I realize launch customers can have input on design. The 787 is already being assembled, pieces are being delivered next month. Kinda late for the initial 787's to be changed for EK's wishes. And with 400 orders it shouldn't be. Now a stretch ala 787-11 could be what EK wants and could become like the 764, but if they want the plane by 2012 they better hurry up and order.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
And, neither A or B is going to build a custom airliner for EK,

That was the impression I got of what EK wanted done for them from the quote "may be the one that changes its planes to fit its needs." To me that sounds like EK wants a pretty custom job done on either the 787 or A350. I agree with you that A or B will not do that for EK.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 7):
The airline-SAS. The planes-DC9-20,and DC9-40. Total orders for DC9-20=10. Total for the DC9-40=71.

And where is Douglas now? Merged with McD. Merged with Boeing. Thats where customizing a plane for one airline gets you. Alot of money and time invested for a little market share.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13970 times:

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 6):
There will never be a B787-11. It won't work, the plane will be too long. The B773 is already at the limits - so making a narrower plane have the same capacity will never work.

The B787-9 is 20 feet longer than the B787-3/8. The B787-10 is expected to be 20 feet longer than the B787-9. A B787-11 20 feet longer than the B787-10 would still be shorter than the A340-600. If you really think that a B787 the length of the A340-600 wouldn't work, then you'll need to provide evidence and logic supporting that assertion.


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13964 times:

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 8):
And where is Douglas now? Merged with McD. Merged with Boeing. Thats where customizing a plane for one airline gets you. Alot of money and time invested for a little market share.

Then I guess we should include Boeing IE: the 747sp,757-300,737-100, 767-400,747-300


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13904 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 9):
Now a stretch ala 787-11 could be what EK wants and could become like the 764, but if they want the plane by 2012 they better hurry up and order.

There is no way a B787-11 could be ready by 2012. It would require new maingear and engines with about 85K lbs of thrust. I don't think it could be ready before about 2015.


User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13877 times:

I just posted this. wonder who ordered the rest.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3134385/



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13876 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 11):
Then I guess we should include Boeing IE: the 747sp,757-300,737-100, 767-400,747-300

AFAIK Boeing usually makes the "custom" planes after the initial models have sold heavily.

747SP - Not really customized. Was designed for its high range.
757-300 - Was late to market, sure it didnt sell as well as planned, but it wasnt built specifically for 1 or 2 airlines either.
747-300 - Not sure why you bring this one up? An updated 747 to replace aging models.

764 - I used that in my above posts. I agree it was custom built for 2 airlines, but only after the 767 had solid sales from earlier models.
Boeing is having no trouble filling production slots for the current models on the table, as is. More major orders are expected which could easily have the 787 sold out through the 2011-2012 time frame. And that is without redesigning a bird for one airline's specs.


User currently offlineNW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13841 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
How arrogant of them. Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs? Over what, a 50 plane order? Hell, you only have 2 planes to choose from, better take which one is closest to what you want rather than waiting for someone to change a design to fit their specific characteristics.
I could see someone doing it when the planes are flying and have paid back development costs. The 764 is an example. But as of today I doubt anyone is devoting resources developing a plane to fill an order like this.

Anyway, thats just my opinion. Flame away.

I agree with you a 1000% and I thought I was the only one who felt this way. This is exactly what I wrote in another thread about this same topic:

"Emirates is really getting on my nerves with their pompous and pretentious attutude of handling business. They are always trying to pursuade A and B to tailor aircrafts to THEIR specific needs. This isn't the the 60s & 70s when you had manufacturers making aircraft specifically for a certain airline like the DC-10 and L-1011 for United and American or the Trident for British European. And every true aviation enthusiast knows that disaster that became of the Trident as a result of their aircraft being constantly modified to meet the needs of only BEA. Emirates need to take whats offered and if it isn;t good enough then too bad. What do they need all of these planes for outside of entering the aircraft leasing business? They want the 747-8 tailored to suite them; they want the 787-10 tailored to suite them; they want the A350 tailored to suite them; and IIRC they want the A380-900 built to their specifications. EK needs to get down off its high horse."

[Edited 2006-12-07 03:28:22]

User currently offlineT773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13836 times:

The seating capacity of the 787-11 would almost fit in at the low end of Y3. So I don't think we will see a 787-11 anytime soon. Big grin


"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13801 times:

Quoting T773ER (Reply 16):
The seating capacity of the 787-11 would almost fit in at the low end of Y3.

The size of Y3 hasn't been determined yet. It's not certain that it will be built at all.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13802 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 9):
The 787 is already being assembled, pieces are being delivered next month. Kinda late for the initial 787's to be changed for EK's wishes

EK never was very interested in the 788 or 789, the current models on offer, as they were too small for EK's needs......thus we move along to the 787-10 which is still a paper airplane. If, after reviewing Boeing's proposal on the 787-10, EK were to say we like and will buy it, but its needs to have another 500nm of range and/or we need to put another 27 seats into it, Boeing will have a long hard look. (I am just using Boeing as an example, Airbus would surely do the same). There is a very very good chance that EK will get the airplane that it wants as long as its practical, will not wreck development costs, and will not make the airplane unattractive to other airlines.

LH signed up for the 748I today (yeah!), but LH insisted that Boeing build the higher capacity proposal (with the longer fuselage like the freighter) that adds seats but cuts 500nm of range....LH got its way, but it could cost Boeing some sales down the road. QF was thinking about the 748I for SYD-DFW flights which may now be a problem, it was rumored that EK was studying the 748I but wanted only the lower capacity/longer range proposal, etc. Its give and take between the launch airlines and the manufacturer until a design is finalized. And, with an potential order for 50 airplanes (plus options) on the table, the manufacturer will do what it can to land the order.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 9):
THat was the impression I got of what EK wanted done for them from the quote "may be the one that changes its planes to fit its needs."

Honestly, I think that you are taking the contents of the article a bit too seriously.....this is PR chat and spin.....EK is using the media to influence A and B.



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 7):
The airline-SAS. The planes-DC9-20,and DC9-40



Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 9):

And where is Douglas now? Merged with McD. Merged with Boeing. Thats where customizing a plane for one airline gets you. Alot of money and time invested for a little market share.

Not a very fair comment in my opinion......SAS was a very loyal Douglas customer and Douglas came up with a product for SAS....the special D92s and D94s were mixing and matching some components and the like, they were not designed from scratch for SAS. Customizaton is part of the game, airlines have different needs and one size does not fit all.....and many of the custom design requirements are not big ticket items. Airlines have operational needs that must be satisfied to gain an order.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13732 times:
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Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):

How arrogant of them. Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs?

EK knows what they want... once upon a time there was a *very* arrogant customer called PanAm who made Boeing redesign not one but two aircraft to meet their demands: 707 and 747.

PanAm was beyound arrogant with the 707. They couldn't get either Boeing or Douglas to produce the plane they really wanted... so they ordered both. But more from Douglas than Boeing. (A la EK and the 777/346) The result? Boeing redesigned the 707 with a wider fusalage to accomodate PanAm. The result was not only passanger comfort but range...

With the 747 PanAm kept insisting on major changes (e.g., the cockpit on top). This stressed the engines beyound their design and complicated the 747 launch. (Recall that engines take a longer design and development time than the airframe.)

By building the plane a very demanding customer insisted on... Boeing went from an also ran to what they are today.

If EK can get a 787-10/11 that better fits its needs... good for them. If it means they're the launch customer for the A350XWB... so be it. If they cannot... ok, they'll order what they can get. But an order for 50 airliners is pretty big; its not that big of a deal to look at EK's request. This is an order for billions of dollars of aircraft, not the purchase of one automobile.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13730 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 14):
747SP - Not really customized. Was designed for its high range.
757-300 - Was late to market, sure it didnt sell as well as planned, but it wasnt built specifically for 1 or 2 airlines either.
747-300 - Not sure why you bring this one up? An updated 747 to replace aging models.

So what your saying is that any customer that has the record of buying large numbers of airframes should be told to "blow off" and sent to the competition? Whether it be Airbus or Boeing somebody is going to build them the plane they want because they know that once they have them in their fold the chances of them buying other models of their products is greater then if the competition has them in their fold. Douglas built the 9's for SAS because they were a very loyal customer, as were finnair,swissair austrian, etc. If you have a good customer you listen to their wishes and fulfill them,and if that means a 50 plane derivitive order for one airline then so be it. I doubt that a 50 plane order from Emirates for a derivitive would break the 787 bank,and I'm sure that Emirates would remember Boeings and or Airbuses flexibility the next time it came to ordering aircraft


User currently offlineNW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13596 times:

Ilyushin

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 19):
once upon a time there was a *very* arrogant customer called PanAm who made Boeing redesign not one but two aircraft to meet their demands: 707 and 747

Those were very different times. It was not 2006 40 years ago. That was an age in which there were SEVERAL aircraft manufacturers all vying for whatever business they could get. Once apon a time there was Boeing, Douglas, Lockheed, De Havilland/Hawker-Siddeley, BAC, Vickers, Iluyshin, Tupolev, and the list goes on. Today the only major players are Airbus and Boeing. Back then companies were more keen to catering to AN airlines specific needs. Enter the DC-10 and L-1011 from an American Airlines requirement for a 250-seat aircraft. The Trident was built specifically for British European Airways and turned out to be disasterous for the Trident program. PANAM pretty much launched the 747 program on its own requirements and there really wasn't any other airlines expressing interest in such an aircraft. The major reason why other airlines jumped on the 747 bandwagon was for image/prestige. They couldn't allow PANAM to be flying around 25 technologically advanced jumbos while the other airlines were flying around BAC 1-11s and Caravelles and DC-6s. Today, aircraft manufacturers are no longer in the business of making a plane for just one airline. When the 777 was designed, Boeing instituted the "Working Together" program and they got INPUT from several airlines on what they wanted in a large jet. They didn't just leave all the designing to United Airlines. EK is very pompous and arrogant and I don't understand why they feel the have the right to have these companies make aircraft specifically for them.


User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13505 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
Customizaton is part of the game, airlines have different needs and one size does not fit all

Perhaps this is one reason we have 2 major manufactuers today. Douglas, Lockheed, BAC, ect all building aircraft to satisfy 1 or 2 customers. IMO Boeing lets the market as a whole design the planes ala 777, not just a handful of airlines. Boeing/Airbus will then build a plane that while it may not satisfy the exact needs of every customer, will cover the market overall and probably satisfy a majority of the market. There will always be a customer thta wants more seats, wants more range, wants different engines, ect, ect, ect. You have to make a compromise somewhere so instead of selling a certain amount of a/c to a handful of airlines you end up selling more a/c spread out over the entire market.


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13497 times:

First of all, this issue is still not mature enough, which means Emirates didn't decide yet what to take. They submit their proposals to both factories in Toulouse and Washington with a certain modifications. The decision will be finalized on March and the order will take place in Paris Airshow.

So let us wait and see


User currently offlineHAMAD From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2000, 1161 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13319 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
How arrogant of them. Now EK is telling Boeing and Airbus exactly what to build and expect them to consider changing their designs to fit one airline's needs? Over what, a 50 plane order? Hell, you only have 2 planes to choose from, better take which one is closest to what you want rather than waiting for someone to change a design to fit their specific characteristics.
I could see someone doing it when the planes are flying and have paid back development costs. The 764 is an example. But as of today I doubt anyone is devoting resources developing a plane to fill an order like this.

Anyway, thats just my opinion. Flame away.

not trying to flame you away, but i will use a concept a professor told us in my Airline management strategies class. Boeing & Airbus are two companies trying to do business. the airlines are clients who are willing to purchase what works for them. it would make more sense if the two manufacturers listened to the airlines' needs and considered them in their design and production of the new planes, after all the airlines are the ones who will purchase and use. and this is how exactly the 777 was introduced the way it is today



PHX - i miss spotting
25 Mariner : Why is Emirates being "pompous and arrogant" by telling the manufacturers what they want? (i) The manufacturers can tell them to pound sand. Or: (ii)
26 UAEflyer : Sh7alik ya 7amad I do agree to certain extend with you, but there are few aircrafts that applied this method that you stated but didn't work, take th
27 Kaitak744 : The 787-11 will never work. It is technically impossible to built such an aircraft with out creating a new undercarriage (for bigger, longer landing
28 Post contains images Curmudgeon : Well I deeply respect the posters above, and the realities of the Pan Am influences on Boeing, I am also reminded of that other demanding customer, Ho
29 Zvezda : Yes, the undercarriage and landing gear would need to be upgraded, but that work would have to be done anyway for any one of a B787-9ER, B787-10ER, o
30 Post contains links and images 474218 : The following three photos show the extent a manufacture will go to sell airframes. Look at the door configurations on these 767-300's: View Large Vi
31 Kaitak744 : The 787-11 would end up being another 767-400. It would need a new wing to carry the extra fuel and the extra weight efficiently (you ever wonder why
32 Spkyflyer : In this day and age commercial reality is that the customer demands customisation in many many goods and services. It is a trend that we can clearly s
33 Osiris30 : Z: We've had this discussion before, so I'll just re-iterate. While Boeing *could* build a 787-11, I really doubt they will do so. I think the 787-11
34 JustPlanes : I don't think they have a problem recruiting them but they're having a very tough time keeping them considering they don't take care of them...
35 Post contains images Solnabo : I wish some people inhere stop writing that 767-400 is/was a niche a/c! We all know it did a world tour around 2000 try to pick up orders but failed b
36 AA777223 : The fat that they slapped RR engines on the 763, is an even better example of this. As we all know, that was a move to bow to BA, disguised as the av
37 Post contains images Keesje : EK says it's a little small no?
38 N328KF : R&D cost was low and it didn't take much to make a profit. But even if it was unprofitable, it kept DL and CO in the fold, and that's far more import
39 Post contains links Keesje : Boeing will add a third major model to its 787 Dreamliner series if airlines ask for it, Randy Baseler, Vice President of Marketing, said on Thursday.
40 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : You don't know that...
41 Thorben : I think the 787 is too far in its development to be changed to EK's needs. A 787-10 might be built, but it will be smaller than the A350-1000. However
42 N328KF : While I don't believe that a 787-11 would be constructed (a role I believe will be picked up by Y3), a CFRP tube a la a hypothetical 787-11 would not
43 Thorben : I'm still laughing about this Y3. Boeing launches the 747-8, just to replace it soon afterwards?
44 Cubastar : Well, NW went to Douglas (yeah, I know.....60's and 70's) and persuaded them to come out with the DC-10-40 so as to accomodate the P&W engines that N
45 N328KF : Nobody said it would be "soon afterwards." It might be 2020 or 2025 for all we know. Consider the term "Y3" a placeholder for a future aircraft in th
46 AndesSMF : And the Pan Am slowly got rid of their DC-8s for more and more 707s.
47 Post contains images Zvezda : No, a B787-11 would not need a new wing. The current wing provides enough lift for 640,000 lbs and extra fuel could be carried in belly tanks. That i
48 Linco22 : Hi all, Please excuse my innocence, but why do EK need 50 or more airframes? Regards Colin (civil-av new person...)
49 FlyDreamliner : Really? So you mean, like an A340-600, which is narrower than a 787 and longer than a 777-300ER? 773ER could be made longer, by the way. The 767-400
50 A342 : Uh, basically, this is old news.
51 2wingtips : From what I know I think the EK order will be 70+ frames and more likely around 100. At this number, I would expect a split order and an order for 50
52 JAL : Wow!!! Emirates is really in an expanding mood! This would make 150 jets in order! All widebody!
53 T773ER : Does any body know how emirates funds the billions of dollars they have on order. My guess would be from the UAE, but that is just a guess
54 Post contains images NW727251ADV : Obviously you are not a true aviation enthusiast based on that comment alone. How did you think the DC-10 and L-1011 came about??? While American nev
55 Zvezda : Yes, Boeing considered a B777-400X more than once. It probably would have been a 20 foot (6 meter) stretch from the B777-300ER, with 120K GE90s. The
56 T773ER : While the 777 can be made longer, I don't Boeing would make the plane. Instead, I think they would instead develop a more efficient version of the 777
57 Stitch : A strong and profitable business plan.
58 A350 : I see Airbus in a good position here since the A350 is optimized for larger size and MTOW than the 787, and a 787-10 or -11 won't come significantly e
59 DAYflyer : If Airbus can extend the A-350 range somewhat, I think they will get the order.
60 Zvezda : The B787-10 could easily have an EIS in 2012. A B787-11 probably couldn't enter service before 2015 at the earliest.
61 Post contains links Kaitak : Hasn't there been discussion of putting a 777-type six wheel main gear bogie on the 787-10? Personally, I think the 787-10 is only a matter of time. W
62 Jacobin777 : A metal-based super-stretch of the 777 would have been highly inefficient (aka A346)...however, with CFRP, the efficiencies, structural integrity, et
63 Zvezda : Yes, but it is very unlikely. The current gear is good for 560,000 lbs MTOW which should be satisfactory for the B787-10. The airlines sent a 540,000
64 Cubastar : And.....if UA "chose" the DC-10......that is WHY I asked the question. The L10's that UA operated came from PanAm when UA purchased some of their rou
65 A350 : It is certainly possible to further stretch the Dreamliner and it will certainly remain a highly efficient airliner. The question, however, is, will
66 Floridaflyboy : This is how things were done back in the old days. The airlines would put out a "requirement" for a new aircraft that meets set guidelines, and the m
67 Zvezda : Break it down to first principles. Consider: a) structural efficiency, b) propulsion efficiency (SFC), and c) aerodynamics. a) Unless Boeing botch th
68 Captaink : I don't see what the big deal is. These are two large companies, run by mature adults not kids. EK says, Hey Boeing we need XYZ, can you do it? Boein
69 Columba : How could you know that : We don´t know how both aircraft will perform. The 787 does indeed look promising and Boeing will keep their promises but t
70 CYatUK : I will have to 100% agree with that. Airbus and Boeing are the sellers an EK the client. A client can have all sorts of requests ranging from what pe
71 Post contains images Jacobin777 : The market would have to decide that....
72 T773ER : If Boeing does not create the 787-11, will the older 777's in EK's fleet get replaced by the A350-1000, or another 777.
73 Jacobin777 : It will be interesting how EK deals with their 777's...they like to put 10-accross their 777s and at this point in time, the A350-1000 will not be ab
74 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Well said. PH
75 BigTom : Not arrogance but just good business. By giving B and A their specific requirements, either one of both the planemakers would come up with something
76 Kaitak : An airline that regularly places multi-billion dollar orders for widebodies can be as "arrogant" as it likes. It's the one with the cheque book; it's
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