Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7421 posts, RR: 9 Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7275 times:
Ok before ya'll jump to conclusions and such, think about this, while DL and CO are larger in Europe, for those of you in the US you know that all the Northwest signs around here say Northwest/KLM and apparently its the same overseas, so possibly do you think that NW's name goes further in Europe, while most people may have never flown or know what a NW plane looks like, wouldn't the Northwest name itself be displayed more then those of other US carriers? What do you all think?
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4670 posts, RR: 45 Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7267 times:
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7421 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7261 times:
While NW may not serve a lot of places, I would still think that people see "NORTHWEST" more then Delta and stuff. Thats what I am saying is that if some news about NW came out or something people could recognize it. I'm just saying that the Northwest name is out there more then others.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10225 posts, RR: 62 Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7247 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter): while DL and CO are larger in Europe, for those of you in the US you know that all the Northwest signs around here say Northwest/KLM
And in the U.S. they say Northwest/KLM, but just as how in the U.S. 95% of the people seeing that sign see "Northwest" and not "Northwest/KLM," the vast, vast majority of the people in Europe see "KLM" and not "Northwest/KLM."
Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter): while most people may have never flown or know what a NW plane looks like, wouldn't the Northwest name itself be displayed more then those of other US carriers?
Maybe it's technically on more signboards across the continent, as part of the deep Northwest/KLM alliance, but I think your reasoning that Northwest's name is thus "larger in Europe than any other U.S. carrier" is flawed, as it's a bit misplaced. While Northwest's name -- as part of the joint KLM signage -- may physically appear in more places, I can almost guarantee that if they did a survey in Europe of the American airline brands they most readily recognize, Delta, Continental and American would appear at the top of the list, not Northwest.
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7421 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7226 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): And in the U.S. they say Northwest/KLM, but just as how in the U.S. 95% of the people seeing that sign see "Northwest" and not "Northwest/KLM," the vast, vast majority of the people in Europe see "KLM" and not "Northwest/KLM."
True but that name is subconsiouly stored by the brain until something sparks it, because people still read the KLM, but may not think much of it.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7184 times:
I disagree. Delta and Continental are very well known throughout Eastern and especially Western Europe. Eluding to your comment, most people do know what a Delta aircraft looks like.
I just disagree with you. No big deal.
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
Gunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3462 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7126 times:
With that logic, KLM is the best known European carrier in the U.S.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4595 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7016 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 2): While NW may not serve a lot of places, I would still think that people see "NORTHWEST" more then Delta
Actually, they see "nwa" as part of the logo next to KLM and frankly, 90% of the non-NW/KL travelers don't bother to go the next step to ask "what is NWA?" or find out it has something to do with "Northwest".
"What is this "n-u-u-a"? or in Germany, what is this "n-v-v-a"? LOL
As for CO and DL, their actual names "Continental" and "Delta" are also more closely associated with many European languages in terms of normal word similarity and familiarization. For example, in German, Continental would be similar to 'kontinental' while Delta is well, just delta. Delta and the Widget together are even easier to remember given the Greek roots of "delta".
So while the Northwest logo may be seen at more places around Europe, it doesn't help much when most people do not actually know what it is, or care to find out since they don't really have an opportunity to fly on it from most European cities....
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3131 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6935 times:
NWA is not very known in the Netherlands. I'd say thay only people who travel to the US and people with a slight interest in aviation know the brand. Besides that, it's not advertised in any way, as it is all KLM.
Even the NWA operated flights like BOS and DTW are advertised as KLM flights, on the well-known blue advertisements in newspapers, magazines and in travel agencies.
The ads only feature very small footnotes "flights may be operated by our partner airlines Air France, Northwest Airlines or other partners."
So I'd say that at least here, NWA is not known. Pure gut feeling, but I'd say that the best known American carrier in the Netherlands is United. They advertise on a very regular basis for tickets to the USA, especially in spring to advertise for summer vacations.
Nosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6906 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): The vast, vast majority of the people in Europe see "KLM" and not "Northwest/KLM."
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 4): True but that name is subconsiouly stored by the brain until something sparks it, because people still read the KLM, but may not think much of it.
Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 6): With that logic, KLM is the best known European carrier in the U.S.
...and done.
KLM does have a dual logo, but at the airports I've been in over here, it's usually a dual logo with AF
I'm sorry I can't help laughing, but I would say with the exception of the Netherlands that Northwest is probably the LEAST known US major carrier in Europe. and a Dutch poster above says its not that well known there.
Look at the major European markets:
UK - minimal presence (compared to other US carriers), barely known by the flying public. AA, UA, CO and to a lesser extent DL are those that are known in the UK. You'll see billboards and ads in the newspapers for CO in the UK, same for AA and UA - tv ads for AA too. But I've never seen ANY NW advertising in London for example.
Germany - again their presence isn't great - AA, UA, DL again being far more known for example.
France - not well known - DL, CO, AA, UA - here we go again....
Spain - again probably unknown by the public
Italy - ditto.
So that's the really big markets covered. Suspect you'll find the vast majority of NW's flights to and from Europe carry Americans, whereas with the likes of AA, CO and DL for example the ratio will be much more balanced.
NW exposure in Europe - limited as far as US carriers go - even US Airways is better known in many of the big markets here.
It would be like trying to say that Austrian Airlines was the most known European carrier in North America.
Now if it was the Far east you were talknig about that would be another story entirely.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3131 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6843 times:
Quoting Cornish (Reply 11): So that's the really big markets covered. Suspect you'll find the vast majority of NW's flights to and from Europe carry Americans, whereas with the likes of AA, CO and DL for example the ratio will be much more balanced.
I think that only goes for the people that have booked directly at NWA. There are quite some European KLM transfer pax on the AMS-DTW/MSP flights. But again, these people did not choose for NWA, but they selected KLM.
Interesting enough, KLM advertises and sells also flights like FRA-DTW (NW 0051).
Cornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 55 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6817 times:
Quoting Joost (Reply 12): I think that only goes for the people that have booked directly at NWA. There are quite some European KLM transfer pax on the AMS-DTW/MSP flights. But again, these people did not choose for NWA, but they selected KLM.
Oh absolutely. And the Netherlands is a special case due to the KLM/NW alliance. But for most other markets that NW serve in Europe, I suspect that unless there is a need to go to DTW or MSP, most Europeans on NW flights will have ended up on there thanks to it being the cheapest option that came up on Expedia or Opodo to their ultimate destination in Europe.
That's not to dismiss NW as a poor carrier - its simply that they really are not at all well known here in Europe.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
Madairdrie From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6783 times:
Would have to say that most people would know AA UA and CO, as big US airlines. DL US would be seen my a large amount of people as small airlines, and NWA would be seen as a strange entitiy most would know they are a big airline but probably not sure why they never see them.
Kenneth
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6032 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6658 times:
Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 14): Would have to say that most people would know AA UA and CO, as big US airlines. DL US would be seen my a large amount of people as small airlines, and NWA would be seen as a strange entitiy most would know they are a big airline but probably not sure why they never see them.
Kenneth
People's perception is funny. If they are thinking of large airlines and not who is better known, then AA,UA,DL,CO, and NW are all larger than BA(worldwide).I agree that NW is not well known in Europe even though they have flying there since 1979. I believe that is longer than AA,UA,DL,CO and US, but I could be wrong.
Jano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 814 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6551 times:
Burnsie
NWA is not much known in Central Europe.
I visit two other local discussion forums, one Slovakian www.slovak-airports.net , and one Czech www.airways.cz. When I showed up there at these forums for the first time I noticed that NW was basically an unknown entity. DL*, CO, UA and AA were much better known.
*when I lived in Spain in Seville in 1997 DL had an ad on TV almost every day. They even did not fly there. They flew to MAD.
What I noticed that at least the perception of NW among the participants of those 2 above mentioned forums changed quite a bit in last few years. My take is that 3 things had something to do with this:
- those beautiful A330s and the new livery,
- NW filling Ch11,
- NW ordering B787 and being North American launch customer.
YYCowboy From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 144 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6356 times:
Interesting thread. How "glued at the hip" are NWA and KLM anyway? This seems to be, beyond a typical code share agreement. Would this arrangement, whatever it may be, affect any merger that NWA might encounter? Would KLM/AF parent be a potential suitor for NWA? If it is, a formidable worldwide airline would emerge. I'm sorry in advance if this has been discussed before.
Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
Below From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 10 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6315 times:
Quoting Cornish (Reply 11): I would say with the exception of the Netherlands that Northwest is probably the LEAST known US major carrier in Europe. and a Dutch poster above says its not that well known there.
My gut agrees. I would like to see that study.
Quote: Germany - again their presence isn't great - AA, UA, DL again being far more known for example.
From my own experience I can confirm that completely. Then again, maybe I hang out on airports too much where the NW exposure is minimal. I don't even know if they depart in FRA Terminal 1 or 2 (And I almost much know the gates for AA, UA and DL flights).
Lucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6239 times:
Quoting Cornish (Reply 11): Northwest is probably the LEAST known US major carrier in Europe.
It's not much better here in the USA either. I am from NJ and all my friends and relatives from there all the time I worked for NW used to say that I worked for Northwestern.. Unless you are from MSP DTW or MEM you would be amazed at how many people have never heard of Northwest.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4595 posts, RR: 25 Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6224 times:
Quoting Below (Reply 18): I don't even know if they depart in FRA Terminal 1 or 2 (And I almost much know the gates for AA, UA and DL flights).
Interesting...as AA only has two daily flights out of FRA and they have never fared too well in Germany either. But with a name like "American" and being the biggest single carrier in the world, their reputation certainly spreads further and faster than NWA...
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 25 Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6178 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15): I believe that is longer than AA,UA,DL,CO and US, but I could be wrong.
I know for certain that DL predates NW in Europe by a few years as their ATL-LGW flight began in 1974. However, you are right about AA, UA, and US. AA didn't begin serving Europe unitl 1982, UA in 89 IIRC and US sometime in the late 80's/early 90's. CO I'm simply not certain of but I seem to remember that they too began serving Europe after 1979.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3385 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6108 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15): I agree that NW is not well known in Europe even though they have flying there since 1979.
DL started the first SCHEDULED US-Europe service in 1978 with ATL-LGW service.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6032 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6004 times:
Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 19): It's not much better here in the USA either. I am from NJ and all my friends and relatives from there all the time I worked for NW used to say that I worked for Northwestern.. Unless you are from MSP DTW or MEM you would be amazed at how many people have never heard of Northwest.
It's amazing that NW has the highest load factor in the industry year after year and is unknown.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3385 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5971 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23): It's amazing that NW has the highest load factor in the industry year after year and is unknown.
This may be true but AA, UA, DL, US, and WN all carry more passengers than NW; which is much more of a determinant of recognition than load factor is.
Jeremy
25 Bobnwa: I think number of passengers is a reflection of how many flights an airline operates, not recognition.
26 B6WNQX: I know that when I first started flying in and out of PDX, the name that always popped in my head was Northwest/KLM Royal Dutch. I don't know why the
27 Jad0761: Well, the FRA flights operated by NW face very high competition as Lufthansa just started a second daily service from DTW, which NW has talked about
28 Bongodog1964: Must agree, in the UK NWA is a small player operating out of LGW, their presence barely registers. I would bet that if you asked 100 people in the st
29 Dutchjet: Lets face it, the airline names that most Europeans and other non-Americans associate with the US are Pan Am and TWA.......the two legendary carriers
30 AeroPeru: IMHO, the way that NWA can make their name more recognizeable in all of Europe is to send some of their most recognizeable assets over there....I thin
31 DETA737: Delta did have the interchange with Pan Am in the 1970s flying ATL-IAD-LHR. Sometimes Delta planes would make it to LHR, but they were flown by Pan A
32 DTWAGENT: My Gospel Choir group will be going to Italy in 2008. And we are looking at the DL flights out of JFK. On all of our travels overseas. We have never t
33 Jano: It really depends. I follow only 3 markets (I do 6-7 trips a year): TYS to VIE or PRG or BUD. NW/KL tends to be the least expensive in the long run.
34 Gunsontheroof: The dual NW/KL logo is at most U.S. airports I've been to...I also saw it in HEL last year, but perhaps that has changed.
35 Db373: The number of flights an airline operates out of a given area would have a direct effect on their recognition. Keep in mind, we're simply talking abo
36 L1011Lover: I agree that AA, UA and CO would be known by many people as big US carriers. However I totally disagree that DL is seen by a large amount of people a
37 Jelle: Just to trow in another thought. Many KLM flights are code shared with NW. On those flights people are always welcomed and thanked on behalf of KLM, N
38 Dutchjet: That may not be true for all of Europe.......but it certainly true in Germany (as you point out) where Delta has a big presence with service to a lot
39 Bobnwa: So your saying that having more flights has nothing to do with carrying more passengers.
40 Dutchjet: You are very much correct and its a good point.....but do pax listen?
41 Below: I can just speak for myself, but when the project's budget is tight, AA is one of my top choices to the US for one simple reason: They give power to
42 Jano: Also available on NW A330s in the front part of coach. See http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Nor...Northwest_Airlines_Airbus_A330.php
43 Gh123: Stupid comment. UA and American, continental and Delta command the respect. I fly a lot and I've never even bothered to even go to Northwest's websit
44 Gh123: You are absolutely right. I fly Economy when on personal flights but F/J when on business. One of the main reasons I ALWAYS fly with AA is due to the
45 Bond007: Well, if you can REALLY manage to use any decent size laptop in standard coach pitch, with or without the guy in front reclining, for longer than you
46 Gkirk: AA and CO yes, UA not outside of London - A bit like BA to be honest
47 Bobnwa: I would guess you are not typical. Of the American carriers flying the Atlantic, AA,CO,DL NW, UA, and US, which one would you say has the highest loa
48 Cornish: Actually that doesn't surprise me. In my days analysing IATA's monthly carrier data, KL and NW consistantly had the highest North Atlantic load facto
49 Gh123: DVD Player. Britain - my local airport is LHR. I wonder if it would be fair to say that NW is just an airline you end up on when you are looking for
50 Bond007: Load Factors in this discussion is irrelevant. NW could fly just one aircraft to Europe a week and have a 98% load factor ....and less people would h
52 UAL777UK: Sorry, I dont agree, unless your into Aviation I suspect if you asked most individuals on the street in Europe they would not know who DL were and if
53 Cornish: But you are speaking as someone I'm assuming is based in the UK - whereby what you say is true to some extent (although i notice they have just paint
54 Bobnwa: Northwest has a schedule to Europe that is not the largest but still a fairly sizable operation. My question is how do all those Europeans end up on
55 B4real: Funny thing is, I really don't think it matters whose name is biggest or recognized. The revenues and CASM and profit or loss are what matters. Name r
56 Bond007: Right, but it has nothing to do with load factors. I don't think anybody said that nobody has heard of NW in Europe, but the thread title mentioned t
57 UKCO: He is typical. UA, AA and CO are the best known around Europe. NW don't really register.[Edited 2006-12-12 16:23:51]
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