Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL Asking Court To Sell/Buy Aircraft  
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6903 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Article here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061206/delta_bankruptcy.html?.v=3

No real surprise here except for perhaps the request to buy 737-700's.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6818 times:

I thought they used their 738's a lot. They operate quite a few trans-cons or near-trans-cons and most of the Latin America routes. 38 is more than half of their 71 jet fleet! If they can turn more of a profit with the 73G though, then it would be better. Maybe they would operate some routes with increased frequency with the 73G versus the 738 and they would put winglets on the 73G's and whatever 738's they keep.

User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6807 times:

The 38 -800's are yet to be delivered. They will keep the 71 they have.

User currently offlineTinpusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 966 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6612 times:

Im slightly confused (and very tired). But is it that they wish to convert the 38 -800's to -700's. Or sell the 3 -800's and the simply buy -700's instead? And I wonder which routes they have earmarked for the -700's?


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

They are asking to sell and convert the existing 737-800 orders to both 737-700's and to something else that is unspecified. They are not asking to sell aircraft already on the property.

User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6535 times:

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 4):
They are asking to sell and convert the existing 737-800 orders to both 737-700's and to something else that is unspecified. They are not asking to sell aircraft already on the property.

That's a very important point. Thery are not reducing existing capacity.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6453 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There are currently 50 738s still on order; according to the news release, 38 of those 50 will be sold to already-identified buyers. The remaining 12 will presumably be converted to 737-700s and perhaps another type?

Also, from what I can gather, this has already been agreed to between Delta and Boeing and they are now going to the BK judge to ask for approval.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5066 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6372 times:

That other type is undoubtedly 787 or more 777s.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5672 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6356 times:

They have also reached an agreement with Boeingto convert all existing 772ER order to the 77L. They will take 2 in 2008 and 3 in 2009.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6356 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):
There are currently 50 738s still on order; according to the news release

from what I understand, there are 50 738s on firm order. Options still exist for many, many more, and can be shifted to any of the 73N series.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6327 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well here's the official news release about the agreement with Boeing:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/061207/110057.html

Indeed, conversion of the remaining 3 777-200ER firm orders to LRs. And taking 10 737-700s to begin with - all with winglets.


User currently onlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6273 times:

From the article:
After Rolling
2007 2008 2009 2010 2010 Total Options
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Aircraft on Option

B 767-300/300ER -- 1 2 2 5 10 2

B 767-400ER -- 1 2 2 13 18 --

---------------------------------------------------------------------

it wont line, up but bassicaly its 28 763/764 options... can those 767 options be converted to 787 orders?



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Thread starter):
the request to buy 737-700's

Bout damn time...they've been in the pilot contract for quite some time, they were envisioned as the replacement for the 732 on the DL Express runs. Perhaps Jerry isn't as big a fan of the E170 for mainline anymore. Good to see more LR's on property.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6256 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 11):
it wont line, up but bassicaly its 28 763/764 options... can those 767 options be converted to 787 orders?

It would be up to Boeing. I doubt Delta will be buying any more 767s, so I would guess that Boeing would have no problem making a deal whereby Delta's 767 options get converted to 787s.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6225 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 12):
Perhaps Jerry isn't as big a fan of the E170 for mainline anymore

Hmmm, Or, maybe, just maybe, because Boeing is the chair of the Unsecured Creditors Committee....just a thought  Wink


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6199 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 13):
I doubt Delta will be buying any more 767s, so I would guess that Boeing would have no problem making a deal whereby Delta's 767 options get converted to 787s.

DL could negotiate amending the B767-300/300ER/400ER options into orders for the B787 (28 total airframes, 30 if rolling options included) and announce that as they exit CH11. The B777 options/rolling options could be converted into orders as well (as -200LR / -300ER? 24 total). After the order-sale of 737-800s and order of 10 -700s, that leaves...umm...122 B737NG orders and options that could be confirmed upon exit from CH11.

That's assuming DL exits CH11 as a stand-alone corporation. IF USAirways succeeds in their hostile take-over, Boeing, as one of the deciding creditors on the creditors committee, could possibly might maybe lose it all to Airbus.

So, if DL and Boeing have negotiated this order, part of which is publicly announced today, and the rest of which might be announced in a few months, does this indicate that Boeing backs Delta's plan to emerge from CH11 as an independant carrier?


User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6177 times:

This is good news to see aircraft entering the fleet, but this really only means that 10 737-700 and 5 777-200LR will enter the fleet. They still are very short on (narrow body) mainline aircraft from the removal of the 767-200, 737-300, 737-200 in the last two years. The 5x 7772LR will be great for the long-haul operations.


B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 16):
but this really only means that 10 737-700 and 5 777-200LR will enter the fleet.

don't forget the 13 757s that are coming starting in July.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 11):

it wont line, up but bassicaly its 28 763/764 options... can those 767 options be converted to 787 orders?

The contracts (which became gentleman's agreements) with Boeing dictated that the commitments were on a categorical basis, and did not commit them to a particular model. Thus, 737 and 757 commitments would translate to 737RS/Y1, and 767 commitments would translate to the 787.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineFreedom747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6046 times:

I had to re-read Delta's News Release that came out this A.M. I got confused about what they're buying/selling....etc. I had to re-read the News Release twice.
TYPE: news.delta.com


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6001 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):
There are currently 50 738s still on order; according to the news release, 38 of those 50 will be sold to already-identified buyers. The remaining 12 will presumably be converted to 737-700s and perhaps another type?

Actually, out of the 50 738s DL has on order, only 2 will actually remain on order for Delta, as Delta has already agreed to sell their 10 738s upon delivery in 2007 directly to a lessor whose name I have forgotten. The 73G order is actually a new order. Don't ask me how this will be accounted for or why, but I suspect bureaucratics behind this, well, rather complicated moving-around of plane orders.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 12):
Bout damn time...they've been in the pilot contract for quite some time, they were envisioned as the replacement for the 732 on the DL Express runs.

Indeed. 45 73Gs were to have been ordered for DLX, until 9/11 killed off that order  Sad .

Quoting N328KF (Reply 18):
The contracts (which became gentleman's agreements) with Boeing dictated that the commitments were on a categorical basis, and did not commit them to a particular model. Thus, 737 and 757 commitments would translate to 737RS/Y1, and 767 commitments would translate to the 787.

That's good to hear Big grin .


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

I believe this also leaves the financial flexibility for a 100 seater (perhaps E190) order. Removing $1.5B worth of firm 737NG orders by immediately selling them means DL should have the financial strength to start ordering 100 seaters. The 700 is good for long, thin routes and where the extra performance is needed but DL gains nothing by putting in 700s on routes that do not need the performance.

User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 17):
don't forget the 13 757s that are coming starting in July.

That is true, that brings a total of 28 new airframes to the fleet, still short of what has been lost.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
Removing $1.5B worth of firm 737NG orders by immediately selling them means DL should have the financial strength to start ordering 100 seaters.

Yes, I actually like this strategy of DL's. DL had the 738's ordered with their pricing - and small entities can't get that price. So, DL immediately selling them is a slick trick. I wonder if they make any money on this transaction? For example, if the street price of a 737-800 as DL ordered it is 12 million (total WAG), DL got 9.2 million, and small Joe can only get it for 11.2 million - Does DL keep a little of the difference? I would try!



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
I believe this also leaves the financial flexibility for a 100 seater (perhaps E190) order.

with Boeing being the leader of Delta's creditors committee, I doubt Delta would do anything to upset them......like ordering a E-190.


User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5815 times:

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but does this necessarily mean that the 38 737-800s will not join the Delta fleet, or will they join the fleet and simply be owned by the leasing companies?

25 DAL767400ER : How would ordering E-190s upset Boeing, considering that in the 100-seat category Boeing only offers the unwanted little sibling of the 737NG family,
26 Panamair : Delta will not be adding the 38 738s to their fleet; it's simply a sale, not a sale-and-leaseback transaction. 38 additional 738s are too much capaci
27 Bucky707 : You don't think it would upset Boeing for Delta to tell them the 736 is an unwanted airplane, and that more 73Gs could not be a viable alternative to
28 Post contains images DAL767400ER : I'd bet most people at Boeing itself think the 736 is an unwanted plane . As to the 73G and the E90, I see these as very different planes for Delta f
29 B4real : Like Panamair said, they will not be flying for DL. DL is simply selling the aircraft that they have ordered to two other parties - at a better price
30 WorldTraveler : It doesn't really matter what Boeing thinks because if DL orders any new aircraft, it won't be until after they are out of BK, at which time Boeing h
31 B4real : {Checkmark} The CR9 and E70 types are the gap that DL needs, and I can speak for the E70 and say these are a welcome entrance to the DCI brand. The C
32 Alitalia744 : 124. 12F/112Y.
33 RoseFlyer : The interesting thing is that Delta will probably earn money by doing this. Those 738s had prices negotiated as part of a huge order and probably had
34 N328KF : You are wrong here on two counts:The 737-700 order is a new order.After DL exits Chapter 11, Boeing would likely become DL's largest stockholder (a s
35 Bucky707 : you could be right. E-190/737.......either way, as long as the Delta pilots fly it, I'll be happy.
36 Post contains images PHLBOS : " target=_blank>http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/061207/11005....html From above-link: The 737-700 will operate with a common cockpit type to the 71 737-800s
37 RwSEA : The 73G will be a great addition to DL's Latin American network. Many of the new destinations added in the past couple of years don't quite warrant a
38 DAL767400ER : That's WN's choice. For Delta the thinking is, if they buy a plane that has transcon range, they will damn well use it for transcons, or internationa
39 RoseFlyer : While you will probably see 73Gs operated on a variety of routes, the MD88 is better suited for shorter routes. The MD88 has a slightly higher capaci
40 B4real : Yes, it is very compelling. In fact, I bet Boeing has said something to the effect of "Don't make a habit of this". Because in a way, Boeing and DL a
41 PHLBOS : Slight tangent question here: how long will DL still fly the MD-88?
42 Post contains images DAL767400ER : For a very loooong time . There are no plans to retire the MD-88s, and not to mention that even once DL starts replacing the MD-88s, the large fleet
43 EBJ1248650 : I didn't realize there were any options from any airline regarding the 767-400.
44 RoseFlyer : Although they are all between 14 and 18 years old, they still are an efficient airplane that should stay in the fleet until the next generation of na
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Gatx To Drop Leasing Unit, Will Sell 87 Aircraft posted Sat Sep 30 2006 18:50:22 by Leelaw
Middle East Airlines (MEA) To Buy 8 Aircraft (+4) posted Thu Jul 13 2006 01:23:14 by BA
DL Pilot Deal To Allow Up To 200 76-seat Aircraft posted Wed Apr 26 2006 05:44:29 by Planemaker
DL Asks Court For OK To Impose Pilot Wage Cuts posted Wed Nov 2 2005 05:34:47 by Dl757md
DL And Pilots To Talk Instead Of Using BK Court posted Thu Oct 20 2005 13:15:24 by Panamair
US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft. posted Tue Jun 21 2005 19:43:12 by Cloud4000
Air Canada Asking Bankruptcy Court To Allow $120M posted Sun Dec 14 2003 10:14:48 by Scf158
Aer Lingus To Buy Aircraft posted Fri Aug 8 2003 14:17:29 by Dtwintlflyer
Vietnam Airlines Decides Not To Buy Aircraft...ATM posted Fri Nov 16 2001 19:48:16 by Singapore_Air
MAS To Sell Aircraft To Gov't? posted Sat Aug 18 2001 12:13:53 by Mas777