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PTVs In Y: Are They Worth It For The Airlines?  
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17666 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

Simple enough....do any airlines see a revenue premium because they have PTVs in economy? My guess is no seeing as there has been no major rush to install PTVs and the vast majority of customers don't decide between airlines based on economy entertainment--even if they did have the information of PTV availability.


E pur si muove -Galileo
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6459 times:
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If I have to fly to Germany, which I do quite frequently, I will not fly LH for that precise reason.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

I don't think they see a revenue premium, but its all about offering what the competition offers. Jetblue for example offers low fares AND free live TV to boot. So from a pax standpoint, they are getting a cheap fare and more in the way of servvice by having a tv than most legacies offer. If legacies like DL can also offer that same product, it might keep certain pax from defecting and take away the percieved advantage offered by the likes of B6.


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineJetstream1975 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

UK operator flyglobespan are testing portable IFE players on selected lowcost european services for a small fee.

User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
My guess is no seeing as there has been no major rush to install PTVs and the vast majority of customers don't decide between airlines based on economy entertainment--even if they did have the information of PTV availability.

You are talking pure USA and not world wide. Outside of the USA any decent carrier has PTV's


User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

Andz,

I'm with you on this one. Not that I often fly Y. I do my level best to avoid this like the plague. But if there is no PTV on a flight that will last more than 4 hours - I will not fly that carrier.


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

Hell yea, its so worth it.

12 Hour flight.

Pick your airline. IFE or no IFE

99% of people, IF there is a choice, will pick IFE airlines


User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1185 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
and the vast majority of customers don't decide between airlines based on economy entertainment-



Quoting Trekster (Reply 6):
99% of people, IF there is a choice, will pick IFE airlines

Where do you get your statistics from? I know that, personally, I have considered Jet Blue many times over AA. What keeps me flying on AA is that B6 doesn't offer a non-stop SFO-MIA and I can maximize ff miles. However, this Christmas we are traveling on LAN via LAX to LIM. One of the reasons why we are doing this is because we feel LA will offer more entertainment, better meal service, and we can accumulate AAdvantage miles. We'll see.

FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17666 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting Antonovman (Reply 4):
Outside of the USA any decent carrier has PTV's

Lufthansa does not. Most narrowbodies still do not have PTVs in Y.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 6):
99% of people, IF there is a choice, will pick IFE airlines

99% of people will not realize the difference, and 99% of people will go for the lower fare, regardless.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting Antonovman (Reply 4):
You are talking pure USA and not world wide. Outside of the USA any decent carrier has PTV's

He's talking long haul I imagine. For long haul, all US airlines have PTV in Y on their most modern a/c (777s + 330s yes, 767s + 747s no), but none of them with with the notable exception of CO has them in all the intercon fleet, and this is if you don't include the 757s.

PTV on shorthaul, worldwide, are still rare, AC's E190 being of one the few exceptions.

Some "Decent" carriers don't have PTVs outside the USA. Although they don't have PTV on the bulk of their long haul fleet, I still consider KL, LH, IB, AC, LA and more as "decent" carriers.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
Simple enough....do any airlines see a revenue premium because they have PTVs in economy? My guess is no seeing as there has been no major rush to install PTVs and the vast majority of customers don't decide between airlines based on economy entertainment-

You surely have got to be joking. I don't know anyone who *doesn't* choose their airline for long-haul travel factoring in IFE/PTV. I wont travel LH for that reason.

I'm not sure about in the US, but apart from one LH flight (business, I had no choice), in the last 6 or so years, I have never flown long-haul in an aircraft without PTV in economy. Who doesn't have them other than LH?


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17666 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Quoting HB88 (Reply 10):
don't know anyone who *doesn't* choose their airline for long-haul travel factoring in IFE/PTV

How is the average person supposed to know on expedia/travelocity/even most airline websites/travel agencies that the flight they're taking may have IFE?

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 9):
He's talking long haul I imagine.

I'm talking longhaul or shorthaul. I think there's zero reason to have IFE on a shorthaul flight but on longhaul I think the benefit at best is minimal, unless they charge for services.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

I said, IF there was a choice, and the sched was good (did not say if they did not care about price and all that stuff)

User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6327 times:

The last flight I took to Europe was on BA just so I could have the PTV in Y. After experiencing the tighter pitch, smaller coke cans (yeah, I know I can ask for 2 ) I decided I much Prefer United Airlines and my noise cancel headphones + IPOD. I'll never choose an airline again base on PTV, to me its all about PRICE, PITCH, Departure time, and arrival time (and in that order)

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6327 times:
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Quoting HB88 (Reply 10):
I don't know anyone who *doesn't* choose their airline for long-haul travel factoring in IFE/PTV. I wont travel LH for that reason.

Then you must not know a lot of people  Smile Every day thousands of pax. travel long distances without it. If it was so important for so many people, then LH wouldn't be around today...I've seen lots of Business Class passengers crossing the pond without ever turning their PTVs on during the entire 9-10 hour flight.

Quoting HB88 (Reply 10):
Who doesn't have them other than LH?

KL on their 747s; UA on their 747s; DL on their 763ERs; AA on their 763ERs....


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17666 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting Trekster (Reply 12):
I said, IF there was a choice, and the sched was good (did not say if they did not care about price and all that stuff)

That's the whole point! Why should an airline bother with the costs of installing IFE if it doesn't bring in at least as much revenue?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6289 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Quoting HB88 (Reply 10):
"don't know anyone who *doesn't* choose their airline for long-haul travel factoring in IFE/PTV"

How is the average person supposed to know on expedia/travelocity/even most airline websites/travel agencies that the flight they're taking may have IFE?

Excuse my ignorance about US carriers, but if you fly long haul out of Asia, Europe or the Pacific, apart from KLM and LH, you can pretty much rely on any of the majors having PTV in economy. Those without are pretty rare.

In any case, if you look at any of the major carriers websites, they'll be publicizing their IFE for sure. I can't think of any non-US carrier other than those you mentioned that don't cover it on their websites.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7786 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6290 times:

Even looking at only longhaul there is little or no information when one is searching for fares if there are PTVs/AVOD or whatever on that particular flight. So at the point of purchase the customer does not know, and presumably doesn't care about that.

Now the presence of PTVs/AVOD or whatever may encourage future business. Customer gets on board and likes the system and remembers that airline X has those TV thingees. But those once or twice a year pax aren't going to pay much of a premium to fly again.

It would be interesting to know if among frequent travelers if the presence of PTVs was a factor in gaining repeat business. But I would be willing to bet CDN$5.00 that more generous FF programs or better in-flight meal service would be something that regular fliers consider more highly in their choice vs. PTVs.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineReyes27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
How is the average person supposed to know on expedia/travelocity/even most airline websites/travel agencies that the flight they're taking may have IFE?

Experience.

The average consumer who flies long haul more than once a year knows something what airlines offer, they are not completely stupid in what they like and dislike.

While I believe entertainment is not the sole reason people choose to fly who they do, I believe it is one factor that goes into their choice along with price, schedule, comfort, frequent flier programs, etc.


User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 17):
It would be interesting to know if among frequent travelers if the presence of PTVs was a factor in gaining repeat business. But I would be willing to bet CDN$5.00 that more generous FF programs or better in-flight meal service would be something that regular fliers consider more highly in their choice vs. PTVs.

In my experience, apart from some US airlines, the lack of PTV in economy for the major non-US carriers is so rare, that it is more that its absence would cause non-repeat business. In fact I heard this first hand on the unfortunate time I was compelled to sit for 10hrs on a LH A340 - nice new a/c, but no PTV. Ugh. People were surprised there was no individual IFE.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6241 times:
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Quoting HB88 (Reply 16):
Those without are pretty rare.

In any case, if you look at any of the major carriers websites, they'll be publicizing their IFE for sure. I can't think of any non-US carrier other than those you mentioned that don't cover it on their websites.

Right, but I think the question is, will you be willing to pay a premium for the presence of PTVs? Let's say there are only two carriers on a route. All else is equal except one carrier offers PTV and charges a premium while the other doesn't offer PTV but is cheaper. Which would you choose?


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17666 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6241 times:

Quoting Reyes27 (Reply 18):
While I believe entertainment is not the sole reason people choose to fly who they do, I believe it is one factor that goes into their choice along with price, schedule, comfort, frequent flier programs, etc.

I agree with that; I just happen to think there is zero revenue premium for having PTVs, especially on short/medium haul.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 20):
Right, but I think the question is, will you be willing to pay a premium for the presence of PTVs? Let's say there are only two carriers on a route. All else is equal except one carrier offers PTV and charges a premium while the other doesn't offer PTV but is cheaper. Which would you choose?

I might be crazy, but depending on the premium, I'd go with the IFE. I've spent waaay too many long-haul hours staring at the seatback in front of me.

In any case, it's not necessary to pay any such premium these days. As a rule, I never fly a US carrier unless there is absolutely no way of avoiding it, avoid LH where I can then choose: BA, followed by the good Asian carriers, QF or ANZ then consider the Middle Eastern carriers (who often have great deals anyway - with amazing IFE). It's often dependant on the routing, but as I fly mainly long-haul to the far east and pacific, there's a lot of choice.

There's no issue really. When buying, I flick between the major carrier websites, airlinequality.com, seatguru.com, my favourite cheap ticket website and away you go. Easy.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6667 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6209 times:

I feel from a passenger's standpoint, they're pretty cool to have onboard. I had them on BTV-JFK on B6, LAX-EWR on CO, and MIA-ORD on UA. Personally, I'm used to flying on 757s cross-country so to not have one is not a big deal, and I usually listen to my Ipod or IFE radio. IMO, its not a nessessity, but its a competitive feature to have in the industry nowadays. Basically, I'm not a little bitch when it comes to airline IFE  hissyfit 


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6157 times:

I will be honest. PTVs in Y (where I am stuck most of the time) is a blessing and well received. Would I book my flight just for IFE? NO.

For me?

1. Miles (Advantage/One World Carries that offer close to or 100% Advantage mileage accrual in Y)
2. Price
3. Departure times, connecting times and airports in which I will connect.
4. Aircraft type (the aviation buff in me)

As someone mentioned, I will be fine with my iPod, a book, look through the window, and sleep (my favourite thing to do on a long flight). Whats more airlines with the TV monitors in the aisle or wherever usually show ok moves, and the audio channels have pretty good entertainment.

Plenty Options.



There is something special about planes....
25 Daleaholic : My god, you'd have thought you would pass out if you didn't have a PTV!!! I really don't see it as a necessity. To me, a PTV is just an added bonus. Y
26 SSTsomeday : Yes, for lang haul, a private entertainment system is pivotal to my choice of airline. That said, I don't know if the average person is coach is that
27 Post contains images Swissy : Life is so sad... 12hrs. and no tv..... , I have more important issues in life than worry about a screen the size of a "fly sh.." on a aircraft, but h
28 PHKLM : Well, IB doesn't, AZ not on 763, TP doesn't, SK doesn't, and so on. I wonder where you get your info from when you make bold statements like this. As
29 Xkorpyoh : I do choose long haul flights based on PTV. (For flights less than 5 hours: I have plenty of movies in my ipod). I am now getting even more picky beca
30 MaverickM11 : I appreciate your choices but this thread is about the airlines' choices....are PTVs worth the investment for the AIRLINES...not you.
31 Sketty222 : I completely agree. Some people only book because of the PTV. Working for BA I get to travel with different airlines on differet routes, some with PT
32 Xkorpyoh : the message we are sending is that it DOES atract frequent flyers (not necesarily the general public). The SONG AVOD system that DL is expanding has
33 Aerohottie : PTV's are not so much a revenue generating device, but more a revenue protection device. There are not many serious global players that don't have PT
34 FlyKev : I believe they are. Airlines like to show off their IFE to customers, I remember an Emirates commercial advertising just their IFE. It may cost to in
35 Richierich : Ask Jetblue if they are worth the investment. I'd say yes. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it helped shape the B6 brand. People may not know which f
36 Warren747sp : Definitely not for the A380. Maybe they would have a few delivered by now if not for PTV's in economy class. It is probably not a good idea for most a
37 SJCRRPAX : The ironic thing is if they could just wait a year or so 802.11 wireless IFE systems will be available, and with the delays they are waiting long eno
38 Swissy : It clearly shows how easy people are influenced and airlines sure will try to use ptv's for their advantage..... it is a free market and it shows how
39 Post contains images MaverickM11 : The message y'all are sending is that a.netters love PTVs, which I knew before starting this thread . I can think of quite a few routes where the car
40 Post contains images Captaink : I think we can see from this thread that PTVs are appreciated by some, whereas other don't give hoot whether there are PTVs or not. Considering the fa
41 Richierich : Well, I'm sure they'd love to, but doing it all over again and charging from day one? I'm not so sure. It helped define the JetBlue brand - an LCC wi
42 JetBlueNYFL : Not to get too off topic, but jetBlue flies nonstop OAK-FLL, two nearby, smaller, less delay-prone airports than the ones you mention. Also, keep in
43 Fsimmer : Totally agree with you. LH among others is on my "No Fly List" for that very reason. Wonder if they will install PTV's on their newly ordered 748 or
44 Post contains links SJCRRPAX : Almost certainly they will intstall PTV's. If what I have read about the 802.11 systems is true they should totally dominate the IFE market. I think
45 Bongodog1964 : It appears to depend very much on the level of local competititon. here in the Uk we have both BA & VS offering PTV's, thus it is pretty much expecte
46 BSBIsland : You guys have to consider that 99% of people are not aviation freaks like you. Im sure lots of people would rather fly LH or KLM (on some flights) or
47 SSTsomeday : The issue is not that I can't be without TV, but that I am crammed into a crowded coach cabin, very uncomfortable, with 10 hours to kill and very few
48 Bongodog1964 : I find that the content shown on the ptv's generally fails to excite me, and never seem to be able to watch anything successfully, as I either miss th
49 Bongodog1964 : I find that the content shown on the ptv's generally fails to excite me, and never seem to be able to watch anything successfully, as I either miss th
50 Richierich : First of all, you have a case of doublepostitis.... Secondly, if you have never tried AVOD, then you probably have never tried satellite television.
51 767Lover : PTV didn't help JetBlue penetrate the ATL market. BTW, I hate PTV when that little electrical box is under the seat. I had the misfortune of sitting b
52 RootsAir : nor does IB. too bad ebcause I will never be able to fly to Costa Rica with PTV's...pisses me off!
53 Indio66 : Ditto for me.
54 BA : I flew on MEA's A330-200s this summer from London to Beirut and they have PTVs in every seat with AVOD for both J and Y. It was the first time I exper
55 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : whith the 380 PTVs will be installed in all Longhaul A/C
56 MaverickM11 : I recently flew on CI from TPE-LAX with that exact problem. While the AVOD was nice, having nowhere to put my feet and legs was not so great.
57 United787 : When I fly United long haul, I will avoid their 747s because they don't have PTVs in Economy.
58 EWRCabincrew : As crew, the IFE as PTV in AVOD mode is a huge help. It means that people will be starting and ending their movies at different times. We can accompli
59 Bongodog1964 : I can't quite see the connection between AVOD & Satellite tv; the reason I've never tried AVOD is that BA are only just starting to fit it, and VS do
60 Richierich : No connection - you said you hadn't tried AVOD. BA and VS both have this on many trans-Atlantic flights. Its pretty good, actually. I know there are
61 QANTASforever : Absolutely. Any time I have to fly SYD-LAX - there's no freaking way I'll ever fly United for this very reason. It's either QF or TN for me. No contes
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