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The Most Profitable Route Of Swiss(LX)  
User currently offlineB773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6786 times:

I feel that the most profitable rotue for Swiss is ZRH-BOM. The flight is full all year round but still they use the old A330 with the old business class on board. I think the new A340 or the A330 with new biz class and first class should be included on this sector.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6762 times:

I don't know which route it is, but I would go ahead and guess that GVA-JFK is up there, it goes out packed in Premium with pretty high yields to boot, though not as lucractive as it was pre-CO81/82.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6695 times:

To North America, it is traditionally Geneva-New York City followed, very surprisingly, by Zurich-Miami.


a.
User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

Quoting B773ER (Reply 2):
which is the largest airline in Asia ?? SQ OR CX OR JL OR KE OR ANA OR TG ??

What does that have to do with LX's most profitable route?


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6612 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
To North America, it is traditionally Geneva-New York City followed, very surprisingly, by Zurich-Miami.

Is that what led LH to drop MUC-MIA in favor of keeping MIA-ZRH?

In the pre-CO81/82 days SR must have been making one big profit off of GVA-JFK. Has LX doubling its JFK-ZRH service affected yields on the JFK-GVA flight?


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7600 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

LAX-ZRH has to be up there. I have flown the route serveral times, and it is almost always full.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

I thought routes out of GVA were unprofitable, at least for SR.

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6582 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 6):
LAX-ZRH has to be up there. I have flown the route serveral times, and it is almost always full

Yes the LAX route does have on of the highest load factors on its N America network, however being one of the most profitable it is not.

LA has been touch and go a few times nearly seeing service dropped completely on at least two occasions -- once after SR ended its DL alliance and 2nd time after the failure of SR and reincarnation as LX.
In recent years the station has not even consistently received daily service which would further show its not as much of a gold mine as loads might indicate.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 5):
Is that what led LH to drop MUC-MIA in favor of keeping MIA-ZRH?

Yes, it is. It is also why LX/LH re-enforced MIA-ZRH again with a daily, year-round service, which Swiss' limited long-haul fleet was not allowing pre-LH.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 6):
LAX-ZRH has to be up there. I have flown the route serveral times, and it is almost always full.

LAX-ZRH is actually one of the biggest money losers in the entire Swiss network. I still don't understand while Swiss still flies there. The route loses over one million dollars a year.



a.
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5090 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

1/ ZRH-BOM
2/ GVA-JFK
3/ ZRH-SSG.

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 6):
LAX-ZRH has to be up there. I have flown the route serveral times, and it is almost always full.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
LAX-ZRH is actually one of the biggest money losers in the entire Swiss network. I still don't understand while Swiss still flies there. The route loses over one million dollars a year.

MAH4546 is right, ZRH LAX has always be a miserable performer, despite consistently high yields. ZRH SFO, during the days it was operated by Swissair, was an even worse performer, and was, at some point in time, the worst performing Swissair longhaul route.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3231 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
LAX-ZRH is actually one of the biggest money losers in the entire Swiss network. I still don't understand while Swiss still flies there. The route loses over one million dollars a year.

Wow, high loads but very low yields! So is there any information on whether the BOM route is actually doing well, and if not which is the LX route that's doing the best?

FYI: the ZRH-BOM route has got a boost recently due to the scissors hub that AC/LX run on the India-ZRH-Canada route, with AC operating a YYZ-ZRH-DEL route, and LX operating a YUL-ZRH-BOM route, with both routes intersecting at ZRH and giving pax an option of YUL/YYZ to BOM/DEL.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6229 times:

Its pretty interesting that perfectly full flights does not mean a profitable route. SK CPH-BKK route is always booked solid in J and almost full in Y - still its not earning money due to low ticket prices and high costs. I suppose that LX ZRH-LAX has the same problem.


Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 7):
I thought routes out of GVA were unprofitable, at least for SR.

Not all at all !
European-GVA routes were for Swissair/Crossair and is for Swiss International quite profitable (LTN is a good example). Also the daily GVA-JFK is excellent in term of profitability (CO is even flying daily Newark-GVA).



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

I think you will probably find that LX's most profitable route in terms of year round traffic with load factors rarely dipping below 75% ever, excellent yields, and very good cargo loads as well - Tel Aviv.

I would stake a decent sum of money on it being TLV.  Wink



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineZRHnerd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6109 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
I would stake a decent sum of money on it being TLV.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 14):
Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 7):
I thought routes out of GVA were unprofitable, at least for SR.

Not all at all !

It is true, partly. SR's GVA-JFK has never performed bad, whereas all other SR long haul flights through GVA (eg ZRH-GVA-HKG iirc) have always been a blow and eventually led SR/LX to cancel all via-GVA flights and route GVA passengers through ZRH.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

As TLV is one of the best performing routes in the LX network will there be a chance that LX will deploy on all it's flights a longhaul aircraft (A330/A340) when they expand their fleet. They used to do so before they reduced their fleet in 2003 and LH flies daily with the 744 and A346 there.

What's with CAI they are even offering First Class on that flight and prices are simmilar than on the TLV flights, this seems also to be one of the more profitable routes or LX I gues?


User currently offlineFlyingchoirboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 281 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5659 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 14):
I would stake a decent sum of money on it being TLV.

My friend's father is the station manager for LX @ TLV. I could ask him to ask his father what the most profitable route for LX is.

Scott



Flyingchoirboy: He sings, he flies, and sometimes he does both at the same time.
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5594 times:

Malabo, Douala and Yaounde comes in mind


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):
ZRH SFO, during the days it was operated by Swissair, was an even worse performer, and was, at some point in time, the worst performing Swissair longhaul route.

You must have something against SFO. You mention this everytime you post something about SR and SFO. Your synopsis states you were/are employed by Swiss. I worked at SFO during that period and often talked with the station manager. It might not have been an award winning route but it was not loosing masses of money as you may have been eluding.



John@SFO
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5438 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
LAX-ZRH is actually one of the biggest money losers in the entire Swiss network. I still don't understand while Swiss still flies there. The route loses over one million dollars a year.

How are flights to ORD doing?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSwissair4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5418 times:

Having worked for Swissair for over 6 years myself in the past, I must agree with HB-IWC's post.

SFO was the worst North American performing route for SR. Though the MD11 F-cl, and C-cl were always full on the ZRH-SFO-ZRH. The route bled money in operating costs to SFO (specifically, terminal costs, flight timings---having been a late afternoon/evening dep from ZRH, and late arrival back into ZRH, and crew operating costs). In fact, I saw some of the operating costs into the SFO international terminal alone, and they were just ridiculously astronomical!!

Within SR it was well-known amongst all that this was true, so it may be that the station manager at SFO (who I knew quite well), was more referring to loads etc.. than overall profitability. Other poor route performers were LAX and ORD. Also, believe it or not, ZRH-MIA for SR always had good loads, but has not been profitable throughout its "life span."

FYI, for SR in North America, for several years the MOST profitable route, believe it or not, was ATL-ZRH-ATL, followed second by BOS-ZRH-BOS. ATL was profitable really from two-to-three months into service when started in 1987. The route always did well in F/C, and ALWAYS enjoyed great cargo loads. Later, the partnership with DL boosted the route (to the extent that the very last SR B747 HB-IGE was operated for an additional 5-6 months prior to retirement and basically shuttled daily between ATL-ZRH-ATL with a config of 18F/66C/312Y !). After the DL codeshare ended, the A332 of SR also did well, but after 9/11 all routes that were even somewhat fluctuating were cut.

Worldwide for SR, ZRH-BOM-ZRH was always one of the most profitable, and many times the most profitable (it still is for LX). Other profitable routes currently for LX are BOS-ZRH, ZRH-SSG, ZRH-TLV, ZRH-HKG, ZRH-DME

Hope this helps. I always get nostalgic when thinking of my dear Swissair.


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Yes, it is. It is also why LX/LH re-enforced MIA-ZRH again with a daily, year-round service, which Swiss' limited long-haul fleet was not allowing pre-LH.

So does this mean that the market between MIA and Germany is not large enough to sustain daily flights to ZRH and seasonal flights to MUC like BOS or JFK does for example?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5399 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 22):

So does this mean that the market between MIA and Germany is not large enough to sustain daily flights to ZRH and seasonal flights to MUC like BOS or JFK does for example?

No, but it does stand to hurt yields because Miami's strong yielding markets to Europe tend to be Southern European markets, the complete oppisite of what most markets are. Wheareas Spain, Italy, and France are low-yield markets from many markets such as Boston, they are high-yielding markets from Miami. This is because most Miami-Europe business connections are with those three countries, along with the UK.

Besides, LTU already flies Miami-Munich and Miami-Dusseldorf non-stop, so it is not like MIA is left without non-stop service to other German cities.



a.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5356 times:

Quoting Swissair4ever (Reply 21):
Other poor route performers were LAX and ORD.

Which is interesting considering LX flies to ORD with an A330....



"Up the Irons!"
25 LAXdude1023 : They fly to LAX with an A340 as well.
26 B752OS : Interesting. I wonder why AZ continues to offer seasonal daily FCO flights from BOS and AF goes to double daily flights for the Spring and Summer sea
27 MAH4546 : Because you fail to see the difference between demand and yield. Just because one route is served with better frequency does not mean it is higher yi
28 LXA340 : ORD and MIA got downgraded to a 2 Class A330 on all it's flights and BOS on some of it's flights, is this only due to the fact that there are no Aircr
29 HB-IWC : Quite obviously, I have nothing against SFO, and I am just stating facts here. If SFO was the worst performing North American destination, and during
30 Legacyins : Point taken. European routes, in general, are difficult sometimes to the West Coast. Possibly, over time, they may have made adjustments to develop t
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