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Randy's Blog: 747 Is The "Shape Of The Future"  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14551 times:

...the shape of the future is a beautiful, iconic airplane called the 747...

...I, for one, never gave up on the 747. There was a time not too long ago when the media was writing the epitaph for the Queen of the Skies. Some have even been quoted this week as saying the 747 is on its "last legs." But does an airplane that has had 73 orders since its launch just over a year ago sound like it's on its last legs?

I'm reminded of what Joe Sutter told me earlier this year, when he pointed out that there have been lots of airplanes designed after the 747, but none have been able to fly faster or adapt better over the years. As Joe put it: "It's been able to absorb technology in every area - structure, aerodynamics, power plant, cockpit systems. It's just as modern as any airplane flying out there because Boeing has continued to invest in the product, and the basic product was right, so the investment pays off..."


http://www.boeing.com/randy/

95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14493 times:

While Randy is full of hyperbole here, the point about absorbing technology is a valid one. And the comment that the "basic product was right" also can't be ignored (well, not the basic product, but the product right after the initial frames).

I hadn't flown a 747 on a real trip in a long while until these past two weeks. Other than 1 ITM-NRT leg 3 years ago, the 747 had all been eliminated from my life for many, many, many years.

But flying on two 744ERs and a 743, I was reminded of how great this plane is. I flew at the front on two flights (seats 1K and 3A) and the back on another (seat 70K).

We had to fly very fast on one leg because we left nearly 2 hours late but only had 45 minutes of leeway on arrival to meet a hard curfew at SYD. We made it with 6 minutes to spare, and despite flying at high speeds at low altitudes (30k most of the flight), the ride was smooth and quiet. Can any other airliner do that? (don't know, but doubt it). The regional config 743 didn't seem crowded despite being very full, and boarding and deplaning was fast. It took turbulence with ease, and was quiet despite it's age. And the return 744ER showed the value of a good pressure vessel. I had a bad cold, and the two 767 flights earlier in the day proved painful for my congested head. But the 744ER held it's pressure far better, allowing my ears time to adjust and offering no pain on climb or descent. Not bad for an outdated design that was built with sliderules and spit in a very short time.

I can only assume that the improvements in stability and cabin comfort of the 748i will keep it closely competitive with any brand new jet on the market. If only the Y seats were wider...  Sad



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14504 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
...the shape of the future is a beautiful, iconic airplane called the 747...

Yes, shape of the future, completely new, never been used in the past.  Big grin

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
...I, for one, never gave up on the 747. There was a time not too long ago when the media was writing the epitaph for the Queen of the Skies. Some have even been quoted this week as saying the 747 is on its "last legs." But does an airplane that has had 73 orders since its launch just over a year ago sound like it's on its last legs?

The last legs may last a little longer. The A300 is still being delivered as a freighter, too.

Anyway, the 747 shape allows a nose door and makes it a good cargo plane. For pax, you can't justify cutting the big whole into the air with that bump. Rather use a fuselage with one deck, that is flatter, or use two decks with the upper deck going all the way to the tail.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14491 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
We had to fly very fast on one leg because we left nearly 2 hours late but only had 45 minutes of leeway on arrival to meet a hard curfew at SYD. We made it with 6 minutes to spare,

Now that the Concorde has been retired, the Jumbo is the fastest airliner.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
despite flying at high speeds at low altitudes (30k most of the flight), the ride was smooth and quiet. Can any other airliner do that?

The A340 is quieter and the B777 is smoother in turbulence (vertical component only). The B787 will be yet even smoother in turbulence (both vertically and laterally).

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
And the return 744ER showed the value of a good pressure vessel. I had a bad cold, and the two 767 flights earlier in the day proved painful for my congested head. But the 744ER held it's pressure far better, allowing my ears time to adjust and offering no pain on climb or descent.

The Jumbo has 7000' altitude cabin pressure. Other airliners have 8000' altitude cabin pressure. The B787 (and probably the A350) will have 6000' altitude cabin pressure.


User currently offlineSparkingwave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14410 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Anyway, the 747 shape allows a nose door and makes it a good cargo plane. For pax, you can't justify cutting the big whole into the air with that bump. Rather use a fuselage with one deck, that is flatter, or use two decks with the upper deck going all the way to the tail.

That is a ridiculous statement, for Boeing has been "justifying" cutting the air with that bump for almost 40 years, and with more 747s than Airbus could shake a stick at.

SparkingWave ~~~



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14405 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
The A340 is quieter and the B777 is smoother in turbulence (vertical component only).

That's not what I meant.

I meant can any other jetliner fly at that high a rate of speed at that low an altitude and still maintain a stable, quiet ride? The A340 is quiet, but at mach 0.825 and at higher altitude. We were traveling at 0.89 at 30k! The A340 can't cruise that fast, and I don't know of any data about the quietness of the A340 as it speeds up. I assume it must be quieter at all speeds, but that doesn't always hold for cars. And again, the A340 can't cruise at that speed anyway. Which was the point. If QF were flying the A346, we would not have made curfew. Period.

The 777 is stable, but I've been on one flying at relatively high speed to Japan, and the turbulence was incredible in places, even on a lie flat seat I was glad I had my seatbelt on so I wouldn't fly out of the bed. On the 744ER, we flew through some thunderheads (going around them would have meant missing curfew) and the plane took it well. The water in the glasses spun like crazy, but I didn't feel "out of sorts" like on the 777 in similar situations, and my seatbelt was never tugged on. Of course I'm comparing different flights, and all situations are different, but all I was saying was that for such an old design, the 747 feels just as modern as much newer aircraft, which was Randy's point.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
The Jumbo has 7000' altitude cabin pressure. Other airliners have 8000' altitude cabin pressure.

It's not just the 1000' pressure difference, but the ability of a plane to maintain constant pressure as it climbs. I've noticed some models are much better at this than others. The 767 seems to go through lots of variation as it climbs, not losing total pressure and I'm sure remaining within tolerances, but not maintaining a consistent pressure as well as the 747. Older jets from other companies had the same problem, which is why your ears pop more on older planes than on most newer jets. The 747 had no such issues these trip, both the two 744ERs and the much older 743.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4601 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14163 times:

Of course the aircraft is the shape of the future. A new derivative has just been launched and it has many improvements over the previous version.

To be honest, I think Boeing and Airbus have both got it right - the placement of the 744 in the 450 seat category, and the placement of the A380 in the 500+ category. The A380 is built to be stretched, and we'll see bigger variants if the market dictates.

In the meantime, airlines who need more capacity than a 777 and less than an A380 will buy the 748. Those that need more will buy the A380. Between them, both manufacturers have a product spread that will fit just about any airline requiring aircraft with 100+ seats.

Viva 747!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 14005 times:

Randy wrote:

Lufthansa says its 747-8s will be configured to about 400 seats, and that the -8 "slots neatly capacity-wise between the A380 with around 550 seats and the A340-600 with around 300 seats."

Does this mean the 747 will be the premier choice for upper class passengers? 550 on a A380 is going to be tight compared to 400 on a 747?



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13989 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 7):
Does this mean the 747 will be the premier choice for upper class passengers?

Not necessarily. It depends on how each airline configures its seating.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 7):
550 on a A380 is going to be tight compared to 400 on a 747?

Yes.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13966 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 7):
Does this mean the 747 will be the premier choice for upper class passengers?

You could say so, because upper class people hardly travel with a double decker bus  Wink
Fun, aside. The A380 will be put on routes with lots of demand. Many premium passsengers prefer A319ACJ, BBJ flights by Privatair anyway



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3423 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13967 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
I don't know of any data about the quietness of the A340 as it speeds up.

One of the reasons the A340 is quiet is because of its low cruise Mach. This is particularly true of the A342/3 that cruise at .805M. The .825M cruise speed of the A345/6 increases their cabin noise by 1 to 2 dBA, depending on seating location.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13888 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Anyway, the 747 shape allows a nose door and makes it a good cargo plane. For pax, you can't justify cutting the big whole into the air with that bump. Rather use a fuselage with one deck, that is flatter, or use two decks with the upper deck going all the way to the tai

That "bump" you mention is actually what helps make the B747 THE fastest commercial airliner at the moment.



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13768 times:

I believe the 747, with it's second story cockpit swept back from the nose, makes the plane have a sleek, swift appearance. I also read recently that the 748I will be the longest passenger jet in the world when built. How cool is that? In comparison, the nose of 380 (which will be fun to ride in so stop bothering me) has a very stubby appearance, especially these first models. Perhaps when the stretch version comes along the 380 might appear more proportionate.

Needless to say, I have always loved the 747 and am thrilled it has been given new life. I hope UA and NW order it as replacements for their current fleet


User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13666 times:

Quoting reply 2. The last legs may last a little longer. The A300 is still being delivered as a freighter, too.

The A300 have officially ceased production forever. The 747 may even out last the A380



747SP
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13616 times:

What is this round thing in the cabin?



User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13487 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 14):
What is this round thing in the cabin?

The futuristic operating table where Randy implants mind-control chips in the brains of various journalists reporting on the aviation/aerospace beat to guarantee that the Boeing "storyline" is disseminated properly.  Big grin


User currently offlineRadelow From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13482 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
Anyway, the 747 shape allows a nose door and makes it a good cargo plane. For pax, you can't justify cutting the big whole into the air with that bump. Rather use a fuselage with one deck, that is flatter, or use two decks with the upper deck going all the way to the tail.

If you are going to make a statement like that at least back it up with facts. The hump actually makes the aircraft more aerodynamic. That is why it is STILL the fastest flying commercial jet in history (excluding the Concorde of course).

What's really amazing to me is that an aircraft designed in the 50's and 60's with sliderules and paper, still is proving a valid and efficient aircraft some 50 years later. Amazing if you really think about it. Will the 777 and 787 see the same history? Somehow I don't think so.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13474 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
The 777 is stable, but I've been on one flying at relatively high speed to Japan, and the turbulence was incredible in places, even on a lie flat seat I was glad I had my seatbelt on so I wouldn't fly out of the bed. On the 744ER, we flew through some thunderheads (going around them would have meant missing curfew) and the plane took it well.

I flew on a UA 777 into the remnants of a hurricane at EWR a few years back and that plane was rock-solid stable.  Wink

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 14):
What is this round thing in the cabin?

Poker table?  duck 


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13462 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Anyway, the 747 shape allows a nose door and makes it a good cargo plane. For pax, you can't justify cutting the big whole into the air with that bump. Rather use a fuselage with one deck, that is flatter, or use two decks with the upper deck going all the way to the tail.

That area rule/contoured shape it has enables it to fly faster than almost anything larger than a C-X right now, and has yet to be bested for aerodynamic efficiency.

The double decks don't seem to be doing a tremendous amount for the A-380 lately, and certainly nothing for A-380F sales.

As far as THE fastest commercial jet still carrying passengers would be the DC-8 (which still carries pax between Boston and Thule, as well as a private Swiss concern who bought ARAMCO's former executive jet) which during testing actually exceeded Mach 1 in a dive. (Yeah, at the wingtips, but there you have it.....)



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13432 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
The futuristic operating table where Randy implants mind-control chips in the brains of various journalists

Silly me, I thought it resembled a trampoline.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13304 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Yes, shape of the future, completely new, never been used in the past.

Whatever you say, it's still sleeker and more graceful than the over/under Whale Shotgun.  Smile  duck 

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
That area rule/contoured shape it has enables it to fly faster than almost anything larger than a C-X right now, and has yet to be bested for aerodynamic efficiency.

The double decks don't seem to be doing a tremendous amount for the A-380 lately, and certainly nothing for A-380F sales.

 checkmark 



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12421 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13246 times:
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Quoting AT502B (Reply 11):
That "bump" you mention is actually what helps make the B747 THE fastest commercial airliner at the moment.

I'm impressed how the 747 engineers, given a design "minus" with the cockpit above, turned it into an aerodynamic improvement. That "bump" cuts fuel costs quite a bit...

And man is it going to be its own true deck on the 748I...

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 19):

Silly me, I thought it resembled a trampoline.

I must not be *that* old, my first 20 thoughts were bad Austin Powers lines...  Wink For only his 747 would need a round trampoline...

However, I do find certain faults with the 747. The amount of space under the cargo floor is huge. I cannot believe how much I sink down if I step between the ribs of one. What that translates to is the plane is pushing a lot of air out of its way that it doesn't need to. So while I agree the 748 will be competitive for a bit (mostly the 748F), there is a bit of "low hanging fruit" left to be trimmed.

I'll let the market decide which is the better plane. Let's see how the sales are after 2015 when both are in the fleet.  Smile

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4072 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13198 times:

Still the queen of the skies.

The ultimate subsonic passenger and freight aircraft I believe.

The 777 is a sweet machine but nothing is the same as the original Jumbo.

I would love to fly one.

The -8 series will be a superb aircraft.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13188 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
You could say so, because upper class people hardly travel with a double decker bus  
Fun, aside. The A380 will be put on routes with lots of demand. Many premium passsengers prefer A319ACJ, BBJ flights by Privatair anyway

You can take the upper class literally  Wink

Keep in mind that LHs first calss in in the top of the Jumbos, so it's a little bit like Privatair. For that reason, I can imagine to see the Jumbos on the premium routes and the Whales on the bulk routes, although not very strictly.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13075 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Anyway, the 747 shape allows a nose door and makes it a good cargo plane. For pax, you can't justify cutting the big whole into the air with that bump. Rather use a fuselage with one deck, that is flatter, or use two decks with the upper deck going all the way to the tail.



Quoting Sparkingwave (Reply 4):

That is a ridiculous statement, for Boeing has been "justifying" cutting the air with that bump for almost 40 years, and with more 747s than Airbus could shake a stick at.



Quoting AT502B (Reply 11):

That "bump" you mention is actually what helps make the B747 THE fastest commercial airliner at the moment.

Obviously everyone's beaten Thorben into the ground with his lack of understanding of aerodynamics, but here is a link with some helpful information. Don't worry if you're wary of Wikipedia...it's got lots of authoritative links at the bottom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
25 Zvezda : If you're going to quote someone, at least get the attribution right. I didn't write that. Thorben did.
26 Legoguy : Is the 747 the fastest large commercial jet due to its high sweep angled wings when compared to other boeing and airbus aircraft?
27 NicolasRubio : It is the shape of the past, the shape of the present, and the shape of the future... It will always be an icon... Think about ads or people who are i
28 FlyDreamliner : That's not the entire story, but it is a solid contributing factor to 747s high speeds. The wing was made with such a high angle of sweep actually to
29 Aviator27 : LH said they were putting around 470 into the 850 seat A380 and 400 into a 467 seat B748i. I think you will have more area/seat on the A380. Plus the
30 Max Q : The 747's wing was a compromise between the wishes of Juan Trippe, who wanted it to cruise even faster (.90 Mach or more) and Boeings desire to give t
31 Post contains images Glideslope : ...and that was the original design. The 748 has a completely new wing that is as all Boeing designs are (764 excluded) the most efficient in the wor
32 Ikramerica : I think Randy got it wrong, or it's a typo. LH will put 500 pax on the A388, not 550. Randy's point was that for A380 customers, Airbus left a gaping
33 RJ111 : Erm... no it doesn't. At what? You really need a context.
34 Floridaflyboy : I've noticed this too, in particular on the -300 models. The -200's are a little better, and the -400's are not bad at all.
35 Post contains links Justloveplanes : It looks like the 748I has quite a bit more sweep than it use to. Check out the video http://www.newairplane.com/747/ Notice the increase in wing swe
36 OldAeroGuy : Do you mean the swept wing tip? It's very similar to the one on the 764 and 772LR/3ER.
37 Justloveplanes : I was actually referring to the main sweep angle of the wing. It may be a dramatization on the video to emphasize the wing redesign. It looks a lot s
38 OldAeroGuy : I don't think the basic wing sweep has changed.
39 Baron95 : IIRC, LH is ordering the crown-space galley option in the 748I, which makes the nominal Boeing 3-class config for the 748I 479. So 400 out of 479 (84
40 A350 : Did they also order lavatories on the first floor, compensating for the A340-600 lavatories in the cave? A350
41 AvObserver : You don't post with quite the venom of disresprct Thorben does but you are both quite clueless at not recognizing that the 747-8 is hardly the same a
42 Post contains links Aviateur : "Most architects who design skyscrapers focus on two aesthetic problems," explains the architecture critic Paul Goldberger in a recent issue of The Ne
43 Jfk777 : The Edsel of the skies is the A340, another great airplane which Boeing will make for decades is the 777. The 777 and its junior partner the 787 will
44 VEEREF : Actually this honor belongs to the Convair 990, however among aircraft that are still flying today this is quite true!
45 Ikramerica : And that's what QF flies...
46 Thebry : Many have said it in this forum, and I'm inclined to agree -- there is nothing noteworthy about the silhouette of the A380, but the silhouette of the
47 Thorben : Your article doesn't mention the hunchback. Besides, aerodynamics of the 747 and other planes like the 777 or A340 are like those of a cyclist sittin
48 Ebbuk : Honestly, this post is quite excessive. Of course the 747 is part of yours and my pop culture, we are of its age, but what of the new generation? Wil
49 Brendows : Read it again Thorben... [Edited 2006-12-10 23:27:48]
50 EBJ1248650 : Something akin to an area rule affect?
51 EBJ1248650 : If that proves true, it will be as a result of the airplane's size, most likely. Bigger is more impressive, I suppose. But ask an airplane nut what t
52 EBJ1248650 : I'm going to take exception to this statement. Cathay Pacific, Lufthansa, Singapore and others have ordered the airplane and none of these airlines i
53 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Nice to see ou back....its enlightening to know you haven't changed one bit.... The A380 right now is struggling...maybe it will have its place in hi
54 OldAeroGuy : How many cyclists do you know that travel at transonic speeds? You should learn more about aerodynamics rather than drawing inappropriate analogies.
55 DrExotica : Had quite a chuckly myself Ebbuk - the A380 is aesthetically challenged to say the least. An iPod will be a far more significant part and recongnizab
56 BoomBoom : Will somebody please tell us what IB did that was so bad and what Boeing did in response?
57 Post contains links JayinKitsap : This IB posting resurfaced it http://www1.airliners.net/discussion..._aviation/read.main/3128196#menu74
58 Post contains links Ikramerica : Why exactly? Because it is "88 seats" larger than the 748i? When a 748i is pulled up to a gate, from the lounge, you'll see a massive, double decker
59 Baron95 : " target=_blank>http://www.departedflights.com/Boein....html Thanks for posting this link. I'm curious as to why Boeing placed the 727-200 above the 7
60 Baron95 : " target=_blank>http://www.departedflights.com/Boein....html Thanks for posting this link. I'm curious as to why Boeing placed the 727-200 above the 7
61 PlaneHunter : How about a source? PH
62 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : Quoting Baron95 (Reply 62): Thanks for posting this link. I'm curious as to why Boeing placed the 727-200 above the 707-320. Maybe it's because the 72
63 Jacobin777 : The 747 is iconic because it brought cheap, affordable transportation to the masses..something which wasn't ever done before.....add to the size and
64 Post contains links and images Areopagus : At first viewing, the video does give the impression of greater wing sweep, but I believe this appearance is the result of greater upward bending of
65 Post contains images Ikramerica : Yes, it brought cheap affordable transportation to the masses, but it is iconic because it was huge, like nothing anyone had experienced before, and
66 Zvezda : They won't. Only more point-to-point flying will cut down on crowded airports and long queues.
67 Ikramerica : That was my point. The A380 and 748i and all other jets, frankly, will do nothing dramatic to alter the entire experience of travel in this day and a
68 Baron95 : The 787, if put in service primarily at 8Y and in great numbers, might change it a little bit, with long-haul direct flights on thin-mid routes, with
69 Planemaker : OldAeroGuy, I am surprised that you, of all the people that disagreed with him, don't understand Thorben's point! As you should know, basic aerodynam
70 Post contains images Solnabo : Randy´s blog: 747 is the "shape of the future", what IS the future for 747 series in 2020-30? My question: What now, 747-800I is soon to be buildt, b
71 Zvezda : No, the clear trend is toward smaller aircraft.
72 Solnabo : According to Zvezda "Clear trend is toward small a/c" I know this topic is about 747, but isn´t Boeing intrested in the BWB project? Micke
73 OldAeroGuy : The obvious answer is that the hump adds frontal area drag. And if the 747 cruised at 0.7M, that answer would be correct. However, since the 747 crui
74 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Hence my comment below... Though I did like your comment about the "height of the space race". ..that was a good angle. Couldn't agree with you more.
75 Post contains images Solnabo : Iconic like the B-52, i suppose? Maybe 747 goin´same age too Micke//
76 N328KF : Right now, the focus is on the military side. While DoD is looking to acquire a first batch of new airlifters (called KC-X, whether it be KC-767, KC-
77 Thorben : OK, thanks. However, the point of that is that a longer bump is better than a shorter bump? My point always was that no bump was better than any bump
78 Zvezda : Not correct. You're free to think whatever you like, but your theory is refuted by wind-tunnel testing. The area rule theory is confirmed by wind-tun
79 Ikramerica : I think you are taking the lead in the most nonsensical posts on a.net.
80 Thorben : If this is true, why doesn't Boeing put a bump on the 777 and 737?
81 OldAeroGuy : Intuition rather than confirmation by experiment was why Galileo's detractors were in error.
82 Zvezda : Weight and production costs. Aerodynamics are not everything.
83 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Which would be a testament to the planes ability given that such a thorough and "tough" customer like LH has decided to go with it... Speaks volumes
84 OldAeroGuy : The "bump" doesn't come for free as it introduces compromises in structure and systems. If you are not going to have a nose cargo door, then there is
85 Post contains images N328KF : I think it's a testament to the B-47 Stratojet (not the B-52) that its basic design continues to form the basis for most major airliners to this day.
86 Thorben : Well, sorry, I don't have a wind tunnel at home. Allright, so the aerodynamics of the additional front size are more or less leveled out by some othe
87 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Fool! It's obviously the flux capacitor! Duh! Ugh! Gosh!!!!!!!!!!! B4e-Forever New Frontiers
88 OldAeroGuy : No, but the literature references with the experimental data were provided to you. You only needed to do some research and reading. That's the wonder
89 Post contains links NoWorries : Just curious, there was an incident a few years back when a 747 approached mach 0.98 -- it survived with a bit of damage. Did it survive because of i
90 OldAeroGuy : Besides this incident, the 747 exceeded M1.0 during flight testing. The most important aspect to a successful recovery from this type of upset is app
91 Post contains images SAABaby : It's quite funny reading the never-ending debating and dissing between pro-Boeing, i.e. USA posts, and the rest of us, i.e. also pro-Airbus. One can c
92 Post contains images Zvezda : Neither do the people here who understand aerodynamics.
93 Radelow : Are the GENX engines on the 747 Intercontinental much bigger than the current engines? I always felt that was the one lacking feature on the 747. The
94 Zvezda : Yes, the GEnx for the B747-8 have a 104" fan compared to 93" for the CF6-C2 on the B747-400.
95 Radelow : Thanks! Much appreciated.
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