Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12436 posts, RR: 37
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9204 times:

Acording to this article on Bloomberg, SIA is looking at the possibility of more 777-300ERs to cover A380 delays. Some quite interesting comments there, including the reference to the 77W as a "useful alternative" to the A380 and, perhaps even more interesting, "we could upsize the order if there are further delays with the A380."

Does he know something others don't? EK's audit team seemed satisfied that the aircraft would now be on time, following their recent visit to the Airbus plant.

Interesting also that a 278 seater is a useful alternative to a 550 seater ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...100&sid=aNxCksEyWmKo&refer=germany

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9200 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Interesting also that a 278 seater is a useful alternative to a 550 seater ...

That´s strange... but if there are 2 773 for each 380


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9201 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Does he know something others don't? EK's audit team seemed satisfied that the aircraft would now be on time, following their recent visit to the Airbus plant.

With that in mind, EK did lease 777-300ERs to cover the delay.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30909 posts, RR: 87
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9203 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Acording to this article on Bloomberg, SIA is looking at the possibility of more 777-300ERs to cover A380 delays. Some quite interesting comments there, including the reference to the 77W as a "useful alternative" to the A380 and, perhaps even more interesting, "we could upsize the order if there are further delays with the A380."

EK has followed the same track, with their recent leasing of additional 77Ws to cover the time it will take for their full complement of A388s to arrive.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5504 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9103 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Interesting also that a 278 seater is a useful alternative to a 550 seater ...

Is SQ fitting their A388's with 550 seats? If not, then the comparison doesn't seem valid, as the 773 can certainly seat many more than 278 in a layout comparable to the 550-seat A380.

Besides, what do you want them to order?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8992 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
"We could upsize..."

How Singaporean.

The B747-400 seats 375, the B777-300ER seats 278 and the A380-800 will seat 474 - 475 passengers.

Hopefully there are no further delays though.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

Weren't the 19 A330s SIA is going to lease, somehow part of filling up the gap untill all planes on order have arrived?

ie. Putting the A330s on Asian routes and freeing up the planes currently flying on these routes and putting them on aircraft flying further a field.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12436 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

The A330s are intended as a stopgap until the A350XWBs arrive in 2013-5 or so. I'm quite looking forward to these aircraft in SIA service.

SIA is going to have quite an interesting fleet by the end of this decade:
A380, 747-400, 777-300ER/300/200ER, A330. The 777, with about 70 in service by the end of the decade, will be by far the mainstay of the fleet.


User currently offlineCoa747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

A330's as a stop gap until the A350 arrives. After the A380 mess I would think Singapore would be a little gun shy about being a launch customer for another Airbus aircraft. For that matter I think anyone would be. Airbus still has the same clunky out moded processes that got them into trouble on the A380 project. They should have cleaned up the mess before going ahead with the A350.

User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8081 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Does he know something others don't?

LH order 747-8 after saying that they would delay their WB order until next year and a few days after an EADS board meeting. Now these guys are talking about further stop-gap orders. Sounds like something is up to me.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7846 times:

Interesting. Contemplating additional delays, even "collapse" of the A380 Program (see: http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...neral_aviation/read.main/3120534/) seems to have become part of Mr. Chew's discourse with the media in recent weeks. This may be nothing more than idle chatter; nevertheless, the potential for ongoing problems with the EIS of the nascent flagship of SQ's fleet does seem to be on Mr. Chew's mind recently. Where one observes smoke, there's often fire.

[Edited 2006-12-10 11:04:12]

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5193 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7669 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 7):
SIA is going to have quite an interesting fleet by the end of this decade:
A380, 747-400, 777-300ER/300/200ER, A330. The 777, with about 70 in service by the end of the decade, will be by far the mainstay of the fleet.

Won't the A350's/A330's be replacing 772's?

I would think that the 777 number will start going down when the A330's come online.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7636 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
Won't the A350's/A330's be replacing 772's?

As of yet, SQ have not ordered either the A330 or A350. SQ have on order 20 B787-9s, 16 B777-300ERs, and 10 WhaleJets. Anything else is speculative.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7596 times:

The 9 A380s, 20 A350X and X number of A330s are not firm as of yet. This may be what is confusing people.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7544 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
The 9 A380s, 20 A350X and X number of A330s are not firm as of yet.

The A330 LoI is for 19. Of course, with an LoI and a couple of dollars, one can get a cup of coffee. Until it's a firm order, it's just so much hot air on paper.


User currently offlineRichardlu From Singapore, joined Sep 2006, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7544 times:

SQ still has 13 B777-300ERs on option, so it wouldn't be a surprise if some of them are firmed up.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7519 times:

Quoting Richardlu (Reply 15):
SQ still has 13 B777-300ERs on option, so it wouldn't be a surprise if some of them are firmed up.

SQ have a lot of options:
15 WhaleJets
13 B777-300ERs
20 B787s

Any of these could potentially be exercised (turned into firm orders). It's likely that some but not all will be ordered and delivered.


User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7326 times:

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
A330's as a stop gap until the A350 arrives

Unlike some on this forum I cant get too excited about the 19 "leased" A330. These are give aways tied into A380 compensation and A350. (But it did give airbus a tiny bit of credibility...for a short time after Farnborough at a time when they desperately needed any good press)

I believe that for SQ the offer was too good to pass up along with the clever fact that Airbus tied in the compo to A350(interim leased A330) instead of cash.

We know that SQ assessed the A330 time and time again and turned them down again and again for an ever expanding fleet of 777

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
After the A380 mess I would think Singapore would be a little gun shy about being a launch customer for another Airbus aircraft.

The A330 could very easily be another MD11/A340. SQ after the initial two 77W are wondering why A) They did not order them earlier and B) should they order GEnx on their 20 787

Quoting PVG (Reply 9):

LH order 747-8 after saying that they would delay their WB order until next year and a few days after an EADS board meeting. Now these guys are talking about further stop-gap orders. Sounds like something is up to me.

Something fishy is going on here.. we have fixed the wiring the weight performance issues and will be certified this month only the 1st Aircraft will not be delivered till Oct 2007. WHAT IS GOING ON>>>>>>>>


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

I don't understand why SQ will lease A330 whereas they are going to receive soon 787s, then A350s...


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7168 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 18):
I don't understand why SQ will lease A330 whereas they are going to receive soon 787s, then A350s...

SQ won't start receiving B787s until 2011. They have no A350s on order and couldn't get any before 2013 if they were to order some. SQ plan to start retiring their oldest B777s in 2009. The only options to fill the gap are A330s or B777s. Now it appears that SQ are leaning toward B777s.


User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6938 times:

Chew may just be negotiating in the press (big surprise) to make A stick to their targets on the A380 before focusing too much on the A350. Makes sense.

He may also be impressed by the 77W's in-service performance and is looking at modifying his fleet strategy.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
A330's as a stop gap until the A350 arrives. After the A380 mess I would think Singapore would be a little gun shy about being a launch customer for another Airbus aircraft. For that matter I think anyone would be.

 checkmark 

The A350 EIS targets are conditional on meeting "cost reductions". A also is publicly scrambling for partners around the globe and that adds to uncertainty too. Until certainty increases (and that could be a while), there will be more 77W's (which is a proven and winning solution) showing up in fleets. It may only be a few months to change things for A, but decisions that have been postponed perhaps for two years may not wait any longer.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 20):
He may also be impressed by the 77W's in-service performance

It's a little early for that. The B777-300ER was only operating in SQ's fleet for three days when Chew made the comments.


User currently offline9V-SVA From Singapore, joined Aug 2001, 1860 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
It's a little early for that. The B777-300ER was only operating in SQ's fleet for three days when Chew made the comments.

I'm not suprised if he based his statements on findings by other carriers eg AF and EK.



9V-SVA | B772ER
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30909 posts, RR: 87
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6416 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I am guessing SQ plans to replace their 744 fleet with a mix of A388s and 77Ws since they have effectively ruled out the 748. 744 routes with strong passenger traffic will get A388s and those with weaker traffic will get 77Ws. So with the A388s delayed, SQ will need to take more 77Ws to replace 744s that are coming up on having to be retired.

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
Weren't the 19 A330s SIA is going to lease, somehow part of filling up the gap until all planes on order have arrived?

I was under the impression the A333s were meant to replace the oldest 772ERs which now have to be retired. SQ was going to use these A333s on intra-Asia regional routes where the A333's lower range would not be an issue, and then the remaining 772ERs would continue to service their current long-haul runs.

I was also under the impression that the "plan" was for the 787-9 will handle those intra-Asian regional routes once they arrive. I am guessing SQ won't be flying them at MTOW since they don't need the 8000+nm range which should make them even more efficient. Then the A350XWB family would be added to replace the 772ER long-haul fleet. Though, personally, I think Boeing has a chance to lock SQ up with the 787-10...


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6234 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 17):
We know that SQ assessed the A330 time and time again and turned them down again and again for an ever expanding fleet of 777

Indeed. But times have changed. The expense of adding a new aircraft type to the fleet might no longer be a hurdle with fuel prices being what they are and abusing 777 on hops to KUL, BKK, HKG, MNL etc.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 17):
WHAT IS GOING ON>>>>>>>>

Just a thought. Perhaps Airbus has been very conservative this time. Allowing enough time to get it right and limiting the risk of having to announce an additional delay. EK's team of 'observers', are said to have, expressed satisfaction, so dont worry to much... In less then a year time the first A380 revenue flight might be a fact. First destination SYD...



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
25 Stitch : More likely it was a combination of Boeing not willing to discount the 772ER enough to either sell it to SQ or to sell it to a lessor who could then
26 CB777 : When is Singapore going to start retiring their oldest 777's? Continental could sure use them..
27 Stitch : When do the A333s start to arrive? 2009?
28 Post contains images Zvezda : 2009. SQ have not ordered any A330s.
29 Kaitak744 : Looks like they could really use the 747-8 to fill that 200 seat gap in their fleet. They are retiring the intra-asia 777s when they start receiving
30 Post contains links and images B742 : http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40395 http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...any_info/press_release/NE_5906.jsp They have ordered A
31 Zvezda : My understanding is that SQ have already sold a few of their B777s with lease-back until 2009, so they are going whether or not SQ firm up the lease
32 Post contains images Stitch : Picky, picky. So SQ sold their 772ERs and is now leasing them back from that seller? If that's the case, then that's probably good news for Boeing si
33 Zvezda : Just a few so far. No, the leases are only until 2009. The B787-9s won't be delivered until 2011. SQ need to order either A330s or B777s for delivery
34 Stitch : I know SQ is...different...in that they evidently have legal or financial requirements that drive when planes are retired. So they can't operate a pl
35 Zvezda : It's not a legal requirement at all. It's company policy which makes sense given the depreciation rules in Singapore and the high-end product they of
36 KC135TopBoom : Why order the A-330 at all? Even if Airbus is the leasor, it just doesn't make sense to have these airplanes for just a few years. The A-350XWB makes
37 Ken777 : Wasn't this a situation where SQ was seriously looking a the 7E7 and Airbus went to them and basically said, "hold off as we are coming up with comin
38 Post contains links Leelaw : Dropping the A380 entirely at this point would be a very messy proposition for SQ, as Airbus has already assembled at least six airframes (MSN003, 00
39 Stitch : Well if Airbus is willing to make SQ an attractive enough offer, SQ has nothing to lose in taking them up on it. Well SQ has a large fleet of 772ERs
40 Post contains links Gaut : During the official introduction of THY in the Star Alliance meeting, Mr Chew Choo Seng said that with the industrial launch of the A350XWB last week,
41 Timboflier215 : Interesting if true. I'm surprised that SQ is so ready to order another Airbus paper aeroplane, considering what happened with the A380, but I guess
42 Zvezda : Unfortunately, the article doesn't indicate a delivery schedule. The LoI was for 2012, but that seems impossible now.
43 Kaitak744 : Uh.... WHAT??!? This is Singapore's current fleet strategy: 777-200ER (intra-asia) -> A330-300 -> 787-9 777-200ER (long-haul) -> A350-900 777-300ER 7
44 Post contains images Zvezda : You posted 10 days early. Now the A330s have been ordered.
45 Stitch : While I believe Zvezda disagrees, I am wondering if SQ is going to swap the 744 for the A388 on a near 1:1 basis now that they have confirmed their n
46 Ikramerica : The 744 will be fully replaced by both A380 and 77W. With 19 of each on order, that is 38 jets to replace 25, which covers quite a bit of expansion.
47 Stitch : My question is where the A388 expansion is going to come from? Will it be brand new routes, or will it be replacements of 744-serviced routes with A3
48 Zvezda : The difficulty with the idea is that more than five more Jumbos will probably leave the fleet before the WhaleJet's EIS. Then again, perhaps SQ will
49 Ikramerica : They'll lose 5 next year? That's quite a bit. I know they are adding quite a few 77Ws by then, but I can't see them being suitable replacements on al
50 Stitch : In case I was not sufficiently clear in my previous posts, I should note that I am perfectly willing to entertain the idea that SQ would use 77Ws as
51 Zvezda : I don't know the exact numbr, but probably more than five. I believe there are five that had been scheduled to leave the fleet already but which have
52 Stitch : That I did not know, and now knowing it, I understand your points much better.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
SIA: More A380 Delays "Frustrating" But Necessary posted Thu Sep 14 2006 09:30:26 by Singapore_Air
A380 Delays To Cost (potentially) 8.1 Bn Euros posted Sun Jun 18 2006 03:28:34 by FlyingDoctorWu
A380 Delays To Stretch Over "Several Years" posted Wed Jun 15 2005 07:22:52 by B2707SST
Air France: No A380 Delays, First To Arrive 1/4/07 posted Wed May 26 2004 14:24:37 by Singapore_Air
SIA To Take Delivery Of 1st A380. Emirates Out? posted Wed Jul 18 2001 13:17:32 by Bokratensa
Will SIA Be The First To Operate The A380? posted Tue Jun 19 2001 18:28:04 by Airbus A380
SIA Adds 3 Flights A Week To Brisbane - More 43% posted Thu Mar 29 2001 07:32:08 by QantasAirways
SIA Pilots Want More Money - SIA Taken To Court posted Wed Mar 14 2001 17:07:08 by Singapore_Air
KLM Airbus 330. Only Four More To Go. posted Fri Dec 15 2006 16:12:36 by Jelle
I'd Like To See The A380 At Boeing Field posted Fri Dec 1 2006 06:39:21 by Flybynight