AirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1 Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14092 times:
All I can say is wow, firefighters not that well prepared. Skip the first 4 minutes then play.
Kearney From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 140 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 13941 times:
Is it common for the tires to blow on the average RTO? Id expect the brakes to smoke from the heat but not go as far as to blow the tires. Note how the tires blow out the sides, good to know when you approach an aircraft with hot brakes!
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13897 times:
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4536 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13617 times:
Quoting Kearney (Reply 2): Note how the tires blow out the sides, good to know when you approach an aircraft with hot brakes!
That is why, in the case of a brake fire, we are trained never to approach from the sides. Always approach from the front or rear of the tires.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13182 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
Wasn't it actually so that the aircraft, after the RTO, had to taxi under its own power for 5 minutes without anyone else intervening?
The aircraft must demonstrate that it can roll under its own power and demonstrate that the aircraft will not catch fire for 5 minutes after the RTO. This is assumed to be the time it would take airport emergency services to reach the airplane and cool the landing gear.
Obviously, the A346 in question failed the latter.
BTW - this is a repost of a threat no more than a month ago.
Flyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 978 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13161 times:
Amazing that the Fire department seemed to have no idea that the brakes would explode. The guy runs up there, then turns around and runs back.
Scary
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13138 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7): The aircraft must demonstrate that it can roll under its own power and demonstrate that the aircraft will not catch fire for 5 minutes after the RTO. This is assumed to be the time it would take airport emergency services to reach the airplane and cool the landing gear.
Chuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12159 times:
safety valves on the tyres are supposed to prevent most blowouts... they should normally just deflate.
I remember an RTO exercise where somebody applied the park brake on the red hot bogies, resulting in the brakes melting onto the discs (nice).
had to put the a/c on trollies 'n tow back to the hangar for the assembly change... fun
N243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 21 Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11741 times:
In this case, are the fuse plugs not installed/deactivated in order to let the tires explode? I would imagine that the deflation with the plugs installed would be much less violent. Interesting video.
-N243NW
Gearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11738 times:
Quoting Flyorski (Reply 8): Amazing that the Fire department seemed to have no idea that the brakes would explode. The guy runs up there, then turns around and runs back.
Well it's not actually the brakes that were doing the exploding. As I understand it, the increased pressure within the tyre caused by the burning brakes made the wheel rims fail before the pressure fuse operated. This led to a redesign of the wheels. That firefighter was very lucky he was not hit by a piece of the wheel or a chunk of rubber. If the shrapnel can penetrate wings and engine cowlings, what would it do to a person. I believe the RTO test with the redesigned wheels was a success.
AA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1112 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10970 times:
I was finding myself very frustrated that the one firefighter who went in hardly sprayed any foam on the bogie. He kept looking back, making hand gestures, etc but hardly sprayed any foam where it was needed most. The rest of the Firefighters seemed MIA.
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2402 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10466 times:
It was funny (but alarming) to see the FFs roll out there with garden hoses. After the first explosion, the FF to the left seemed to be more concerned with the small piece of burning rubber at his feet as opposed to the inferno that was raging on the gear assemblies! Can't believe they didn't attack with foam from the get go.
LimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10318 times:
Was this plane actually delivered to a customer after Airbus finished their testing?!?
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10246 times:
Quoting Kearney (Reply 2): Is it common for the tires to blow on the average RTO? Id expect the brakes to smoke from the heat but not go as far as to blow the tires. Note how the tires blow out the sides, good to know when you approach an aircraft with hot brakes!
I know on some American designed airplanes, pressure seals blow when the heat gets too high and the tires deflate rather than exploding. This film caught me by surprise because I would have thought our European friends would design in a similar feature to prevent tire explosions.
AsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10111 times:
I thought the universal airport fire department procedure states that when approaching an aircraft that is on fire or in which fire is imminent, you approach with pumps on and primed, boom extended, and all personnel in proper attire.
There's no way a couple of two-inch hand lines are going to handle burning metal wheels.
SWAOPSusafATC From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9893 times:
wow, rejected at 182KTS! Not suprised they blew eventually. That would be one heck of a high V1. What is the rule on min speed before reject for certification?
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9579 times:
Quoting SWAOPSusafATC (Reply 21): What is the rule on min speed before reject for certification?
It's done with Max Payload, Max speed... before Vr... and Max breaking...no TR's. The aircraft must come to a complete stop, start moving again under its own power, then wait for 3 minutes before the fire/rescue can approch. I was shocked the tires were not equiped with fuse plugs. I saw this same test on the B777 and the result was nothing like that. The fuse plus poped and the tires went flat with no explosion.
[Edited 2006-12-11 00:26:03]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9469 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 22): I saw this same test on the B777 and the result was nothing like that. The fuse plus poped and the tires went flat with no explosion.
If you notice toward the end of the video, most of the tires are flat, but no explosions or fire occur:
AirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9310 times:
Quoting AA777223 (Reply 16): I was finding myself very frustrated that the one firefighter who went in hardly sprayed any foam on the bogie. He kept looking back, making hand gestures, etc but hardly sprayed any foam where it was needed most. The rest of the Firefighters seemed MIA.
From what I saw it looked like they were having a pressure problem and he was trying to get them to increase the pressure so that he could stay back and hit the fire..... I don't think that it was a lack of hose length but rather a defensive position in case of the tires blowing as occured... Imagine what would have happened if he had all the hose he wanted and got in even closer of the bogies... I forwarded this to a Friend who is a ARFF member for the Airforce to see what his thoughts are...
My one questions are there any noises that are made by the tires before they go to alert that they are about to blow? or is this a they just blow type of thing?
-Carl
If Your Dying Were Flying
25 777fan: Ha, it the first guy to get in there appeared to be wearing a "Member's Only" jacket with reflective tape on it. What a joke. 777fan
26 OPNLguy: What I was wondering was why 4 fire trucks can be seen trailing the aircraft as it taxis in, yet we only see 1 fire fighter with 1 hose getting anywhe
28 Pygmalion: The brakes get to 3000F not 400F and are white hot. The fuses should let go and let the air out prior to wheel fracture. Thats why they are there. Som
29 LH526: Judging the amount of explosions, it's a A346/5 right? I'm amazed by the fact that the plane shoke quite heavy as the rather smaller tires burst in pe
30 LTU932: Yes, it's the A346 prototype which was doing this RTO test.
31 Pygmalion: Bursting a tire that is 200psi at normal temps and then heating it to near 1000 degrees and letting it burst.... not a gentle experience
32 Ph-tvh: And the brakes are not "fresh" either. Been a while for me, but the brakes are worn down (simulated flight cycles) to their limits before put to the
33 Gearup: They did, however the BFGoodrich wheel rims failed before the fuse plugs relieved the pressure in the tyres. They had to be redesigned to solve the i
34 AA777223: What? Are you sure? I have never heard of anything "Burning under water" I think thats impossible. The only oxygen present in water, is in the actual
35 Robsawatsky: From wikipedia.org: "Magnesium metal and alloys are highly flammable in their pure form when molten, as a powder, or in ribbon form. Burning or molten
36 OPNLguy: Ever see an underwater flare used by scuba divers for illumination?
37 AA777223: Well, I stand corrected. I am not a chemist. Apologies for my ignorance.
38 AndrewUber: Boeing's 777 RTO test sent the brake temps to over 4,000 Celcius (which is approximately 7,232 degrees F). Molten wheels and brakes are incredibly ho
40 OPNLguy: 400F is more what you see (or measure) after a landing at a hot-and-high airport over the maximum quick turn weight, and the only value that I was pe
41 LTU932: After having watched the A346 RTO test and re-watching the 777 RTO test, I'd just like to have some confirmation on this: is the use of thrust reverse
42 OPNLguy: Back to the A340, here some shots of the aftermath... http://www.aviationpics.de/test/a346/page_01.htm
43 LimaNiner: So to answer my earlier question, this is a true prototype that will never go into service with a customer, i.e., I might encounter it as a beer can
44 Brendows: This prototype is still being used by Airbus, just as they are using one A320, one A343 and will continue to use one of the A380s as test aircraft. Y
45 LTU932: Yes, it is. Airbus has kept the original prototype of the A346, which is F-WWCA (MSN 360). Airbus keeps some aircraft prototypes for test purposes. T
46 Kevi747: That's what I'm saying. The fire kept growing and he kept spraying the pavement. I was like, what the hell are you doing? Spray the fire!
47 Carpethead: The very 1st 777 flies for Cathay Pacific as B-HNL and now powered by RR engines.
48 AA777223: That's interesting. I was under the impression it was a major ordeal to to change engine types on an aircraft like the 777, especially on one of the
49 AirbusA346: It has stayed with Airbus because it is not a proper certified version due to the overwing door missing on F-WWCA, but is present on the others. It m
50 Brendows: The first PW prototype ended up sitting at Everett for a couple of years, without engines, until CX agreed to take this aircraft, which had to be re-
51 AA777223: I don't blame them. I wouldn't want a P&W powered 777 either.
52 LTU932: I never knew this was a reason for Airbus to keep F-WWCA. That I did know. I'm guessing for CX to agree to take the aircraft, Boeing must have made t
53 Carpethead: Actually, Cathay has a recent history of taking up test aircraft. 1. First 773 was delivered to Cathay. Currently flying as B-HNE. 2. Cathay was the l
54 Tiger119: - Most ARFF crash trucks have pumps that can pump either water or foam while the truck is still in drive gear, which is not the case for most average
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