Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NZ Getting Real On The Tasman  
User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3380 times:

After wasting significant money and time on its fruitless attempt to re-merge its trans-Tasman operations with its main competitor, QF, NZ is looking in the right direction: at extending its LCC operations on the Tasman. QF's has a huge head-start with its serious investment in its LCC, JQ - but at least NZ are spending their money and time in the right direction now:

Quote:
TRANS-Tasman routes could be the next low-cost airline battleground with Air New Zealand chief Rob Fyfe indicating the airline is looking at boosting the role of its low-cost subsidiary.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,20904431-23349,00.html

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWerkur767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

Air New Zealand will start a subsidiary airline for these routes, as low-cost, low-fare? Like an express airline, following the exemple in the past?
The Trans-Tasman route is very lucrative, and QF has almost no competitor for New Zealand.

Regards.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Absolute rubbish.

More like Air NZ flogging a dead horse instead of using its brain.

To understand the utter stupidity of this, we have to review the problem.

Air New Zealand has Tasman loads between 60 and 65%. That would not be a problem with normal yield management, because the pointy end would come to the rescue, as would the fact that 10% of passengers are higher-yield long-haul passengers to/from Australia to/from the USA, UK and Europe.

Unfortunately, however, Air NZ has dumbly elected to try to run an LCC operation on the Tasman, with a stripped down product and the cheapest fares not earning points. And that pseudo-LCC product resolutely refuses to make a profit, because of course the frequencies needed to make routes to Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane work mean that all planes are only 2/3 full, not least because the LCC-like passengers are highly seasonal leisure passengers who don't take the multiple weekday services needed to keep the premium passengers flying SYD-AKL, MEL-AKL etc. In contrast Pacific Blue is a real LCC but every seat earns points regardless of the fare paid.

And worse still, the pointy end doesn't work out either. Whereas Emirates and LANChile charge around $1000 return Trans-Tasman in Business Class, Air NZ offers an (empty) Premium Economy cabin at that price with derisory catering, while Business Class goes for around $1800 and up, and consequently can't compete on price.

So the model isn't working, which is why Tasman Express was stripped down further as Zeal320 which in turn still doesn't make a profit.

But why is Fyfe intending to flog a dead horse even further?

There actually is an alternative. Compete not just on price but on quality for that price, as follows:

1) Offer points at a full-earning rate even on discount economy (say 30 Airpoints dollars each way).
2) Offer real meals in Economy class for an extra $10 per sector at the time of booking.
3) Reduce lead-in Premium Economy fares from around $1200 return to $800 return, and increase point earning in that class to around 60 Airpoints dollars each way.
4) Reduce the cheapest (less flexible) Business fares below the magic $1000 return level, at the current points earning rate.

Businessmen would still need flexibility and pay the higher fares. But the airline would finally start to sell some of the empty Premium Economy and Business seats which the 777 and 747 aircraft currently have.

Let me repeat one last time. A pseudo-LCC model on the Tasman cannot work, because LCCs rely on leisure passengers to fill the planes, and leisure passengers will leave loads as low as they are now.

Forget just cutting costs. It's time to compete with other carriers offering MORE extras for the same money on the same routes, whether it is Pacific Blue giving Velocity points on every economy seat or Emirates selling full Business Class on the same routes for the same cost as Air NZ Premium Economy class's slice of quiche or a pie.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3246 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Werkur767 (Reply 1):

NZ started a LCC on the Tasman around 1997 called Freedom Air. SJ operates A320s.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 2):
Air NZ has dumbly elected to try to run an LCC operation on the Tasman, with a stripped down product and the cheapest fares not earning points

I don't think NZ expanding its Freedom Air services on NZs Tasman routes is a dumb idea.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3225 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
I don't think NZ expanding its Freedom Air services on NZs Tasman routes is a dumb idea.

When you alienate premium passengers, it is not a bright idea either.  twocents 


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 2):
There actually is an alternative. Compete not just on price but on quality for that price, as follows:
1) Offer points at a full-earning rate even on discount economy (say 30 Airpoints dollars each way).
2) Offer real meals in Economy class for an extra $10 per sector at the time of booking.
3) Reduce lead-in Premium Economy fares from around $1200 return to $800 return, and increase point earning in that class to around 60 Airpoints dollars each way.
4) Reduce the cheapest (less flexible) Business fares below the magic $1000 return level, at the current points earning rate.

Good ideas, Koruman! I certainly would always pay a few dollars extra for a better meal on the Tasman NZ service. I think, though, that a policy closer to QF/JQ's one within Australia is the way forward, where they often serve on the same routes, but are co-ordinated, and aim, sometimes at different markets, sometimes the same - but quite different from the present NZ/ZEAL relationship, where they steer well clear of each other, and where ZEAL is somewhat undernourished compared to NZ. In comparison, JQ is being heavily invested in hardware and new routes by its parent company, QF. The problem for NZ/ZEAL, is that the JQ product is likley to be of increased quality and strength in the next few years, and NZ/ZEAL needs to be ready for it. I think that's how the present NZ management are heading - and how I feel - though I think they are going in that direction a little late to be ready for JQ's new fleet of B787s. However, your contempt for the contemporary pseudo-LCC / pseudo-long-haul NZ "Tasman" product is shared in every way by me.

The other way forward for a NZ-LCC product is a significant code-sharing with DJ - an LCC which I think is superior to the present JQ, and is beginning to expand into more international routes and hardware.

[Edited 2006-12-11 08:02:41]

User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

How can NZ make the Tasman work by overloading the route with a LCC?
If I had the option of flying with the likes of EK, AR, LA for roughly the same price, why would I travel on a plane where everything i get is charged for? I wonder how many more people will think the same way?

Does this mean the NZ have lost the war between EK and QF??


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3143 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 4):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
I don't think NZ expanding its Freedom Air services on NZs Tasman routes is a dumb idea.

When you alienate premium passengers, it is not a bright idea either.

SJ also have Business class/Premium Economy, its called Suite Seats

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 6):
Does this mean the NZ have lost the war between EK and QF??

The same can also be said with QF then, since they have basically removed QF from the CHC market and replaced it with JQ


User currently onlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 2):

Wow, that summed up my argument all in one too. Fyfe to me has gone out of his mind. I doubt that they will lower the prices on the cheapest Y class fare, even after taking out food etc, as they did keeping the highish fuel surcharges on as they "felt" their prices were comparable. So, without getting any airpoints or food or even PTVs you can pay the same price for an NZ ticket as you can for an EK one (I have UA mileage plus, I can earn on either EK or NZ...). If Pacific Blue expand to the state that it competes with NZ, EK and QF, what will NZ do then? Keep going at those low paying tourists? Or will Fyfe be gone long before they restart competing at a level of QF or higher? I thought that the Tasman Express was enough of a low cost measurement in the first place.. *Alliance fliers have no other option across the ditch, and I feel sorry for them that they may not have an adequate service in place (but then again I haven't flown on any US/Europe airlines but the standard of service in Asia/Australasia should be high IMO)

Understanding that they will make less profit providing a full cost service, why not keep it how it is, just add a few things like airpoints and Y+ where available?

I dislike this option to stick with the A320s. When JQ release their 787s, the plane itself may win over the product (like some of us here who can't necessarily afford such flights as AKL-ORD to test out the 787).

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
The same can also be said with QF then, since they have basically removed QF from the CHC market and replaced it with JQ

Although AKL is remained untouched. AKL is the money-making airport for the routes to Australia and more so than CHC or WLG with at least the daily 747 on the route. QF's 787 fleet will trump any 767 or A320 NZ will possibly still be flying on these routes, without having to change the entire country into LCC territory. I wonder if NZ (well ZEAL for that matter) will ever be the same again..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3036 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
SJ also have Business class/Premium Economy, its called Suite Seats

Fair enough. Let me rephrase: When you alienate premium passengers or any other passengers for that matter, who actually want to accrue mileage on Trans-Tasman flights; it is not a bright idea.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3012 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
I dislike this option to stick with the A320s. When JQ release their 787s, the plane itself may win over the product (like some of us here who can't necessarily afford such flights as AKL-ORD to test out the 787).

NZ will likly fly the B787 across the Tasman and maybe Pacific Islands for training purposes


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

Here are a few scenarios:

1) I am a tourist who is a United Mileage Plus member with $1000 return to spend on a Trans-Tasman return. Do I pick Emirates Business Class or Air NZ Premium Economy?

2) I am both a Qantas and Air NZ frequent flyer wanting to fly Trans-Tasman in Economy for around $500. Do I buy an Air NZ SmartSaver which earns Zero points and leaves me arriving hungry after being served a slice of quiche , or do I fly Qantas and earn frequent flyer points and arrive having eaten a full meal?

3) I am an Air NZ frequent flyer and Business Class passenger paid for by my company, but only after they weigh up competing airfares. Every time I want to fly Air NZ SYD-AKL I get told that Emirates comes in $700 cheaper than Air NZ and that if I want I can fly NZ if I pay the difference. If I pick Air NZ I'll have no recline in my A320 seat and a DVD player, whereas if I pick Emirates I'll get a fully-reclining seat and a PTV.

4) I'm a price-sensitive blue collar worker wanting a cheap trip from Sydney to NZ. Do I fly Pacific Blue and earn Velocity points, or Air NZ and get no points?

Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but only the unprofitable passenger in scenario 4 would even consider flying Air NZ's Zeal320 product. Is the entire Trans-Tasman business plan based around cornering the market of the least profitable passengers? Great business plan!


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2935 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but only the unprofitable passenger in scenario 4 would even consider flying Air NZ's Zeal320 product. Is the entire Trans-Tasman business plan based around cornering the market of the least profitable passengers? Great business plan!

korman, You're spot on 100% correct. I think they should keep their Zeal 320 cost base but up the product offered to win ppl back, and start letting places like OOL connect thru to the rest of the network. From the economy passengers point of view QF is flogging their asses, and, having taking the EK business class myself on CHC-SYD back during the ski season, I can tell you what, it was amazing! If they charged a similar price and had FULL catering (even without the ice system) and a somewhat better IFE (think of what CO are currently doing on their 757s in businessfirst), they'd stand a good chance of getting me to pay that price.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

From a posting on about the same topic in a recent thread, Koruman ascribed the present NZ trans-Tasman policy to Andrew Miller, since departed , and implemented under the watch of Ralph Norris. So Fyfe can claim clean hands on what has happened.
Koruman outlines a number of options clearly based on his first hand experience with the customer. To me, as a customer, they make a lot of sense. I would enjoy observing a debate on the pro's and con's with a senior airline person on Koruman's points.
NZ trans-Tasman service was of interest to me up until this year when my wife and I would use it every 18-months or so to vist our kids in Melbourne. But they have returned to YXU so it is all rather academic now.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Fyfe can't claim clean hands at all: he is the CEO now, and in Dubai two days ago he foreshadowed cutting Tasman costs and product levels even further.

The LCC model for the Tasman may work for a real all-economy outfit like Pacific Blue, but even they offer a higher product level than Air NZ (eg Velocity points on every seat).

Like it or not, Emirates will keep selling Business Class for $1000 and Pacific Blue will keep selling Economy Class with points-earning for $500.

So Air NZ has two choices.

EITHER
1) Deliver a competitive Business Class, lower Premium Economy fares to 80% of Emirates Business Class and compete with Pacific Blue by offering points for every economy ticket.

OR
2) Be a real LCC and undercut Pacific Blue for price with a minimal product. But understand that that requires 98%+ loads (i.e. two flights per day AKL-SYD instead of 6) and requires abandoning carrying long-haul passengers between Australia and the USA/UK/Europe via Auckland. And understand that this means targeting the product entirely at the least profitable passengers, and giving away to Qantas and Emirates the market for the most profitable passengers (Business, Premium Economy and Long-Haul via AKL).


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Further reflection....

Qantas ads on TV here in Australia feature one male passenger turning to another and asking why he chooses Qantas.

"Because they know I like my newspaper in the morning, and a beer in the afternoon" come the reply.

This is half the problem for Air NZ, isn't it? Qantas and Emirates try to deliver a product which the passengers want, as does the LCC Pacific Blue which has frequent flyer points on every ticket and is installing TV screens on the back of every seat.

But Air NZ is obsessed only with a never-ending mission to cut costs and service levels lower and lower. No PTV on its A320 flights. No proper food. No recline in Business Class on the A320. No points for fare levels which earn points on Pacific Blue, Emirates and Qantas.

This failed LCC model should be abandoned before it reaches its ultimate destination, which is driving away all high-yield passengers and catering only for those wanting the lowest fare, who have no brand loyalty and who exist in too small numbers to provide the loads needed to make an LCC-model profit.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2511 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Koruman (Reply 15):
No recline in Business Class on the A320.

NZs A320s business class does recline


User currently offlineAerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7394 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Be it all on the heads of people who opposed the codeshare with QF. It was viable, and they have twice denied. It is stupid to continue the LCC strategy across the tasman, but unfortunately we live in a world where people that want cheap fares with everything offered. Bring back the elitist days of the flying boats...  Wink

User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 15):
"Because they know I like my newspaper in the morning, and a beer in the afternoon" come the reply.

you have a valid point here koruman but this ad is targeted to QF's Cityflyer routes.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
The same can also be said with QF then, since they have basically removed QF from the CHC market and replaced it with JQ

Well they still maitain one daily service from SYD


User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 17):
It is stupid to continue the LCC strategy across the tasman

NZ does not have an "LCC strategy" on the Tasman, other than ZEAL services. JQ and DJ are LCC products. EK, QF and NZ are standard full-service. NZ just has a not-quite-full-service on the Tasman, which many think is just fine, others don't. But it is not LCC. They are looking at expanding it, just as QF are expanding their LCC branch, JQ - with the expectation of a bigger role for JQ over the Tasman. But QF are never going to leave the Tasman to JQ alone, nor is NZ going to leave it just to ZEAL. There is a big array of routes and passenger needs to fulfill.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2401 times:

I've had the misfortune of sitting in rows 1 and 2 on the A320 on, by my reckoning, 5 Trans-Tasman flights this year. Fortunately I've flown another 8 or so Trans-Tasman sectors on the 747 or 777.

And let me assure you: A320 row 1 reclines a tiny, tiny bit, and row 2 reclines even less (due to the partition to Economy). The recline of row 1 is probably a fraction of the 767 and old 737 business class recline, whereas the 747 and 777 have flat beds.

Usually my Australia-bound Trans-Tasman flights occur pre-dawn Australia time, often after flying in 12 hours from California or 26 hours from London, and usually I have to work upon arrival. So I avoid A320 flights whenever I can.

Let's be honest. Air NZ ordered the A320 in a cheap configuration with no PTVs because they thought the Tasman was going no-frills or low-frills. Unfortunately though, they now find that they are competing with Emirates offering full long-haul service on the same sectors for lower prices, and with Pacific Blue offering points and, shortly, PTVs at every seat.

People on this board often say "well airlines in the USA offer equally crappy in-flight service levels". True. But they are not competing with cheaper airlines offering higher service levels. If Singapore Airlines could operate domestically in the USA they would wipe the floor with UA or AA, just as Emirates looks like doing to NZ on the Tasman.


User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2393 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):
just as Emirates looks like doing to NZ on the Tasman.

But EK have already tried MEL-CHC, and given it up. And they are never going to fly into WEL or any smaller airport in New Zealand or Australia. Their routes and frequency on the Tasman are always going to be driven by the needs of their long-haul network, the fact that New Zealand is just a handy extension of their key Australian routes, and the limits set by the demands of their big planes. NZ runs the Tasman in a very different way: on frequency and multiple places - more or less like an extension of their domestic network. But they also run flights as extensions of their long-haul network, just as all EK flights do. Apparently those flights do better financially than the others. But I can't see EK ever taking NZ in most aspects -just the big daily Australian add-ons -the area maybe NZ should give up on (unless it gets really serious about competing there with the service level of EK. To do that they really have to go back to full-service, in the provision of meals and IFE).


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
3) I am an Air NZ frequent flyer and Business Class passenger paid for by my company, but only after they weigh up competing airfares. Every time I want to fly Air NZ SYD-AKL I get told that Emirates comes in $700 cheaper than Air NZ and that if I want I can fly NZ if I pay the difference. If I pick Air NZ I'll have no recline in my A320 seat and a DVD player, whereas if I pick Emirates I'll get a fully-reclining seat and a PTV.

The one thing your forgetting is Air NZ have frequency at the moment and thats NZ's biggest advantage at the moment .. EK go at hours which are not to most business peoples ideal timings ie cant return in one day for meetings.. Thats why Air NZ can get away with the prices it charges for business class is because it flies when their passenger wants to ..

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
) I'm a price-sensitive blue collar worker wanting a cheap trip from Sydney to NZ. Do I fly Pacific Blue and earn Velocity points, or Air NZ and get no points?

This is a little unfair NZ is not a LCC compared to Pacific blue .Ok the very cheapest fare doesnt get airpoints but at least you do get free entertainment meal/snack and drinks ..

Quoting Koruman (Reply 2):
1) Offer points at a full-earning rate even on discount economy (say 30 Airpoints dollars each way).
2) Offer real meals in Economy class for an extra $10 per sector at the time of booking.
3) Reduce lead-in Premium Economy fares from around $1200 return to $800 return, and increase point earning in that class to around 60 Airpoints dollars each way.
4) Reduce the cheapest (less flexible) Business fares below the magic $1000 return level, at the current points earning rate.

1) totally agree on this point
2) Nice in theory but from a service delivery point of view just cant be managed time wise and crewing wise having different levels of service in the one cabin would need more crew.. ie more expence so wont happen when they want to reduce costs unless the customer pays on board for the extra then could be possible but would be very messy service that would take a lot more time to perform.. On some flights extra time is non existant..
3 & 4) I agree cheaper fares will stimulate demand but having business at just $200 more than premium economy why would you buy y+ .. Has to be a bit more of a margin to make sure one class does not cannibalise the other by being too close in price..

But agree would love to go back to full service ..Somehow i just do not see it happening.. The odd of peak flight could be made into a freedom flight but a mass swapping over would be bad in the end.. Freedom does not have the name recognition Air NZ does ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently onlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2369 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):

What do you think NZ would have done if it got the 737 instead? The same?

Too bad NZ won't be upgrading he 767s much. It'd offer a superior product to QF's 767s and some of us could avoid the A320, knowing that the next plane would be good.

Quoting Antskip (Reply 21):

The demand in the other centres apart from AKL are too low, but it is no reason to start making all other airports in NZ fully LCC airports. There has to be some room for those premium customers, or even in between that they feel special enough not to travel in a no-frills Y-class cabin with no seating arrangements, airpoints, food etc.

Why should products vary so much? You have the Business flat bed of the 747/777, the old seat of the 767 and the seat of the A320 and you pay the same amount for one or the other. The services should match that of the long haul Business. I don't see why they can't do that. IMO NZ can't ever compete against EK in the on-board services and price in the near future but an attempt to compete with them they have gone the wrong way about it. More and more people are seeing that EK is a good airline and offer cheap flights, all fully-frilled. Comparing it to NZ which have few cheap seats and maybe soon to be no free food onboard might come as a shock to some and I wouldn't be surprised to see many more switching.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):

Well it's not just about trying it out, I must admit.. But if QF change their entire 763 fleet with the 787, NZ will maybe have 1 daily flight with the 787 (say to SYD) but QF will continue to have 3 or 4, easily winning over the 1x 787, 1x 767 and 3x A320s.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NZ Getting Real On The Tasman posted Mon Dec 11 2006 04:14:35 by Antskip
NZ Reduces Capacity On Trans-Tasman posted Thu Nov 23 2006 05:51:53 by NZ107
Any Updates On The New Air NZ Colours? posted Sat Jul 8 2006 09:53:43 by KiwiTEAL
Attention SFO Spotters - First NZ 777 On The Way posted Tue Nov 29 2005 13:45:30 by SunriseValley
Getting On The Ramp posted Wed May 26 2004 03:28:36 by Pizzaandplanes
Air NZ Back On The Radar posted Sat Mar 2 2002 02:24:33 by Tesna
50 Years For Air NZ On The Coral Route posted Fri Dec 7 2001 03:05:34 by JaseWGTN
Air NZ On The Brink Collapse posted Sun Sep 16 2001 20:17:29 by Wirraway
Getting A Ride On A Non-US Airline In The US posted Sat Sep 2 2000 02:45:53 by Delta777-XXX
NW 757 Getting Tossed In The Wind Like A Kite posted Thu Dec 14 2006 21:36:34 by Airportopz