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Investigators Raid EADS, Lagardere - Sources  
User currently offlineAirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 462 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

ok, so I realize that this news release doesn't exactly pertain to any airline or aircraft as of yet but it still involves one of the largest aviation companies in the world.

Does anyone know what's up with this?

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
December 12, 2006 11:00 a.m.

PARIS (AP)--Investigators were raiding the Paris headquarters of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. (5730.FR) Tuesday as part of a probe into alleged insider trading surrounding the Franco-German aerospace giant, according to sources close to the inquiry.

Another raid was underway Tuesday at offices belonging to French media-to-defense group Lagardere SCA (13021.FR), a longtime EADS shareholder which cut its stake in the company earlier this year, the sources said.

A spokesman for EADS confirmed to Dow Jones Newswires that a raid was taking place Tuesday, but gave no further details. He said EADS was cooperating with the ongoing investigation.

-- Source: wsj.com

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 505 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Well, wasn't Forgeard under suspicion of this? He and others sold shares before public disclosure of the A380 problems.


The dude abides
User currently offlineAirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Quoting MrComet (Reply 1):
Well, wasn't Forgeard under suspicion of this? He and others sold shares before public disclosure of the A380 problems.

Yes he was...

I just found this in an updated version of the article:

"Two investigating judges - Philippe Courroye and Xaviere Simeoni - were appointed at the end of November to look into allegations centering on the sale of shares by several managers at the group last March, weeks before EADS announced long delays to its planned Airbus A380 superjumbo, sending it stock price tumbling. "

-- Source: wsj.com


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5669 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

What may have been an initial investigation into the share sale by Forgeard seems to by widening to others within Airbus and EADS.

Investigators wouldn't carry out a warranted raid without some sort of information to present to the courts. We have to watch and hear what they may have found if anything.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

... Timing really sucks for them with the whole getting certification of the A380 today... maybe the investegators thought that it was a good time to pounce since a bunch of the executives were at press conferences... but I'm sure that it's actually just coincidental timing.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
What may have been an initial investigation into the share sale by Forgeard seems to by widening to others within Airbus and EADS.

There is no indication of that. They may have been searching for evidence in Foregard case.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5669 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1758 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 5):
There is no indication of that. They may have been searching for evidence in Foregard case.

Then why raid Lagardere offices? Forgeard was never at Lagardere as far as I know.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3186 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

This is bad news, because this will likely lead to class action lawsuits against EADS and tie up valuable resources for things like discovery, etc. Corporate lawsuits (especially of the nature these would be) can be VERY hard on a company if there is even the slightest hint of validity to the claims.


I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Don't forget there is an investigation pending in Germany as well.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1710 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6):
Then why raid Lagardere offices? Forgeard was never at Lagardere as far as I know.

Think of it as the French equivalent of a keiretsu.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 5):
There is no indication of that. They may have been searching for evidence in Foregard case.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ngaerospace/2003445102_eads24.html

"some executives" is more than just Forgeard.


User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10):
"some executives" is more than just Forgeard.

About 800 suspects according to DER SPIEGEL.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 11):
About 800 suspects according to DER SPIEGEL.

I though Spiegel was a serious magazine. Are they accusing anyone who sold EADS shares in 2006??? Surely there are no 800 executives at EADS.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5669 posts, RR: 48
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
I though Spiegel was a serious magazine. Are they accusing anyone who sold EADS shares in 2006??? Surely there are no 800 executives at EADS.

Regardless if there are 80 execs or 800 execs, it looks like the scope of this investigation is widening. Do they have anything, we don't know. They may very well find no evidence against any current of former EADS or Airbus executive, including Forgeard.

We will have to wait and see what evidence, if any, they turn up as a result of these raids.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
Are they accusing anyone who sold EADS shares in 2006???

Anyone who might have had access to inside information and sold after the delays became known to the employees but before the delays became known to the public.

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
Surely there are no 800 executives at EADS.

I'll bet there were 800 Airbus/EADS employees who sold EADS stock after the employees found out.


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
Surely there are no 800 executives at EADS.

I'll bet there were 800 Airbus/EADS employees who sold EADS stock after the employees found out.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
Are they accusing anyone who sold EADS shares in 2006???

Anyone who might have had access to inside information and sold after the delays became known to the employees but before the delays became known to the public.

An insider is anyone who has "insider knowledge". One classic example is the father of a CEO's secretary who found out from his daughter that the company was about to tank. She, in turn, found out in bed. Her father dumped his stock and got five years -- suspended, a heavy fine and three months cleaning trash off the side of route 101 every Saturday.

I would be surprised if it is limited to 800. Basically anyone who sold stock in that narrow time frame is suspect. And under French law you have to prove you didn't do it.

I am surprised and pleased that they are actually investigating this seriously. I was expecting the old rug over the dirty spot trick.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 5):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
What may have been an initial investigation into the share sale by Forgeard seems to by widening to others within Airbus and EADS.

There is no indication of that. They may have been searching for evidence in Foregard case.

Au contraire.

here's what APPAC, which is a French association of small shareholders thinks.

Appac, the French shareholder association, asked prosecutors last month to widen their investigation to include top executives DaimlerChrysler and Lagardère, alleging that the two companies would have known at that time of new delays to the A380 that were not made public until June 13.

"Small shareholders were left in the dark and lost their savings," said Didier Cornardeau, the Appac president, in a recent interview. "I cannot accept the explanation that they did not know, because that is the same as admitting that they are incompetent," he said, referring to managers of the two companies as well as EADS.

It's quite simple. The managers knew enough about what was happening and what was in the works to dump their stocks before the bad news got out they tanked.

If there's a French equivalent to 'moral bankruptcy' I wonder if someone would share it with the crew?


http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/12/business/airbus.php


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 15):
Basically anyone who sold stock in that narrow time frame is suspect. And under French law you have to prove you didn't do it.

The net may spread pretty wide. Besides Forgeard, the EADS site identifies two other Board members (Hans Peter Ring and Jean-Paul Gut) and four Executive Committee members (Auque, Bregier, Itavuori, and Zoller) as having 'exercised share options for immediate sale' between 8th. and 24th. March 2006.

Details of numbers of shares, option prices, sale proceeds etc. on the EADS site:-

http://www.eads.com/

Click on English/Corporate Governance/Insider Trading Rules/Directors' Dealings.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

Im still wondering about BAE which took a bath on its shares, the price of which has now rebounded. I still don't understand why they just rolled over...

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 18):
Im still wondering about BAE which took a bath on its shares

BAE was selling its stake in the Airbus Division, Mham001. The value of that was based on trading/profit prospects in future years, not day-to-day share prices. Those prospects were looking bad after the first announcement of A380 delays, they arguably look even worse now. I would think that, though disappointed with the value assessed by the arbitrator, BAE are happy to have got clear.

The interests of Lagardere and Daimler-Chrysler are indeed measured in EADS shares. Both of them want to reduce their exposure to Airbus' problems too - but their shareholdings are effectively the basis of Franco-German control, so they virtually have to get Chirac's and Merkel's 'permission' to sell.

Besides, EADS shares are still down over 30% on their value when the likes of Forgeard sold out.

[Edited 2006-12-13 03:53:02]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
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