SR100 From Switzerland, joined Dec 2005, 107 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10645 times:
Last Thursday, I was considering to leave a CO B735 because I had the impression of having a very unprofessional cabin crew.
This happened after I had a very pleasant transatlantic flight on a CO B762 first. This was my third CO transatlantic flight within a couple of weeks and I am very happy with their product from check-in to the entire flight with usually very friendly, efficient and multilingual ground and cabin crews.
The only thing where they do not get my points is during boarding and deboarding. Last Sunday on the way back to Europe (my 4th transatlantic flight), when I got on board and to my seat in one of the last rows on another B762, I found the five ladies of the main cabin seating and chatting on their jumpseats in the rear galley and next to the doors. A few minutes later, two came into cabin, just to put their huge crew bags into the overhead bins of a full flight... Not a very good first impression and a missed chance, not only to welcome the passengers, but also to speed up boarding by assisting passengers. And I prefer the system of having the crew bags in the cargo hold. But I understand that this seems not to work with CO, because on all eight recent CO flights I saw an exodus of the cabin crew from the plane right after the very last disembarking passenger. This would not work if the crew had to wait for their bags being unloaded from the cargo hold...
Last Thursday, while I was waiting at EWR for my connecting flight, which was delayed due to weather and traffic issues, I observed a male CO flight attendant with an open uniform shirt collar and a very low tie. I thought he might be deadheading, but when I got to my seat he was one of the active FA. I found this very unprofessional and I couldn't understand, how the rest of the crew and about a dozen of deadheading CO crew members on board, all dresses correctly, would tolerate this.
My only explanation would be an internal CO tradition like having the very last flight as FA or he just got father or something like that. But again, this does not match with the image I have of CO.
But things got worse. The other male FA doing the main briefing on PA had to stop the briefing about ten times, either because of a misspelling or because he had lost his track... The two other crew members where in the aisle, rolling their eyes and just holding the security card in their hand. There was no live demonstration how to put on the mask and life vest...
Well, I have no ideas about CO regulations. Since I fly every second or third day and since I have flown for five decades with most of the airlines in this world, I found this behaviour of the cabin crew very unprofessional. But I didn't know how to react, because there were so many other people on board, who should know it and they didn't say anything. But for the very first time in my flying experience, I came to the point where I said to my-self: one other issue and you get out of this plane.
But then, they performed a very professional cabin check before departure and I said well, interesting experience. During the beverage service, the still open collar FA pointed his right hand to the passenger allowed to speak and order a drink, like you would handle some children as a teacher...
I am confused about this experience. Is this exceptional? Was there something wrong? Or is this the regular CO domestic product?
S5FA170 From United States, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10614 times:
Continental has been doing a lot of hiring this year. EWR is the junior base. Its most likely that some or all of those flight attendants were junior and new to Continental. They may or may not have come from other airlines (perhaps even regionals) where things get done a little differently.
I am, however, puzzled as to why their was no oxygen mask demonstration. That is the one thing in our safety demos that the FAA actually requires to be demonstrated. That is a very big safety risk and violation.
FlyHoss From United States, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10544 times:
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter):
I am confused about this experience. Is this exceptional? Was there something wrong? Or is this the regular CO domestic product?
No, this is not the regular CO domestic product. In my opinion, it sounds as though one of the crew members was quite tired. If you're concerned enough to post your experience here, have you contacted CO?
SK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 967 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10462 times:
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter): And I prefer the system of having the crew bags in the cargo hold.
I'm not quite sure about this, but I've heard something that cabin crew on US airlines are not allowed to check-in bags. (FAA?) Once again, I'm not sure if this is true, but when working in AMS for NW, the crew always take their (HUGE) bags onboard.
EWRCabincrew, do you know the answer?
Off topic: NW crews only stay 1 night in AMS (except the crews who also do the BOM rotation), why those large suitcases?
Azstagecoach From United States, joined Mar 2006, 146 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10456 times:
I fly CO all the time and for good reason; they are a great airline. But honestly you always have a small chance of getting someone like that out of EWR. My recent EWR-SFO flight featured a similar person who refused to take my empty coke can when I brought it to him at the back of the plane, then he took it and stuffed it in the lavatory trash because that's where he said the trash was, and I quote: "look, it says, "trash"!" I just couldn't believe it, either.
But look at your own totals: multi trans-atlantic flights with a positive experience, and on the last flight, one crummy domestic FA. Sounds like overall CO has done a pretty good job.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 60 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10375 times:
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter): And I prefer the system of having the crew bags in the cargo hold. But I understand that this seems not to work with CO, because on all eight recent CO flights I saw an exodus of the cabin crew from the plane right after the very last disembarking passenger. This would not work if the crew had to wait for their bags being unloaded from the cargo hold...
A couple of things pop to mind here. Domestically, we travel with our luggage from flight to flight and plane to plane. Logistically, it would be a nightmare to do this, to check luggage for each pairing. Internationally, CO has always done this with regards to crew luggage as our trips are normally only 3 days in length (a 24 hour layover), so we do not need bigger bags that would not fit in the overheads (such as actual luggage), that needs to be checked. We carry a rollerboard. As do all other US carriers. Heck, even European carriers do the same, sometimes (please note, I said sometimes). The overhead bins are for everyone. They are shared. They are not bought, rented or exclusive for use for anyone, but again, shared for all. Not all people bring things to put up there.
I understand that the customer has priority, but at CO, we do have designated places for all of our luggage that we are supposed (key word: supposed) to use, at least on 757/767/777. Domestically it is different, since we only have the overheads to us. Normally, on each 737/757 there are a locking overhead bin in the rear (aircraft left) for the crew to use for their personal belongings. It is a contractual implementation.
Now your comment to the "exodus of the cabin crew from the plane right after the very last disembarking passenger". When should we deplane? If all customers are off, then what? The flight is over, we have no more duties to perform, just pass through customs. Should we be doing something? I didn't know what this comment meant.
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter): I observed a male CO flight attendant with an open uniform shirt collar and a very low tie. I thought he might be deadheading, but when I got to my seat he was one of the active FA. I found this very unprofessional and I couldn't understand, how the rest of the crew and about a dozen of deadheading CO crew members on board, all dresses correctly, would tolerate this.
Very unprofessional. It reflects badly on him and, more so, on me and my company. It makes us look bad. Sometimes it is hard to talk to a coworker about bad or inappropriate behavior. It is not unique to the airline industry, as you would find it hard or you would be put in a difficult situation if you had to tell someone that they were doing something wrong.
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter): The other male FA doing the main briefing on PA had to stop the briefing about ten times, either because of a misspelling or because he had lost his track... The two other crew members where in the aisle, rolling their eyes and just holding the security card in their hand. There was no live demonstration how to put on the mask and life vest...
Did you ever think he may have been new and he had to read the safety demo from his manual. I have been a flight attendant for 20 years. I know what is to be said, but do not know it verbatim. I can in French, but not English (whole other story). Hence, me reading it from a manual, like he did. Try that in a public situation, turn pages, press a p.a. button and not mess up. Especially as a new hire.
O2 masks are to ALWAYS be demonstrated. Our 735s do not have videos, so we do the demo manually. Life vests are to be shown when it is an over water flight (i.e. when the flight plan goes 50 miles over water or more(that is considered over water)). If not, just the verbiage needs to be said.
Quoting Nwa747-400 (Reply 4): A "live" life vest demo is not always required, depending on the flight routing.
From earlier:
Life vests are to be shown when it is an over water flight (i.e. when the flight plan goes 50 miles over water or more(that is considered over water)). If not, just the verbiage needs to be said.
When was this flight, exactly?
Hope your experience continue to be good on us. Maybe have you on one of my flights.
Cheers,
Bill
P.S. Mind you, you couldn't have left the CO B735 if you witnessed the demo being done. The door was shut and you were on your way.
IAHFLYR From United States, joined Jun 2005, 3435 posts, RR: 37 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10348 times:
The crew bags in the overhead are not uncommon, they've got to put them someplace and there is supposed to be a designated crew baggage area, but who knows some days!
It drives me crazy eyed when on a 500 especially, you've got basically no space in the first class overheads to start with, and there sits a crew roller bag or similar, now those 8 folks probably can't get all their carryons into the f/c overheads which they should normally be able to unless someone has brought their entire house with theim. Last I knew the crew was not to use the first class overhead bins or so I've been told by employees.
Sounds as another said you just got a crummy group of flight attendants as that is not my experience on CO.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 60 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10307 times:
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9): Last I knew the crew was not to use the first class overhead bins or so I've been told by employees.
Correct. Never supposed (again key word: supposed) to go in the F/C overheads. Sometimes pilots do too, they may not be aware of no working crew members bags in F/C, I usually put their bags back in Y/C in that case. Just being courteous to those who pay my salary.
777FlyGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10206 times:
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter): But for the very first time in my flying experience, I came to the point where I said to my-self: one other issue and you get out of this plane.
Agreed, it sounds like an unprofessional situation. However, enough so to get off the plane? Did you feel the safety of the flight was at risk because of a disheveled FA and botched pre-flight announcement? That's overly dramatic don't you think?
Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 5): If you're concerned enough to post your experience here, have you contacted CO?
SR100 From Switzerland, joined Dec 2005, 107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9979 times:
Thank you for confirming my own assumptions:
I thought that the cabin crew might have been quite new - or tired, considering that there were long delays due to the weather on that day.
Not doing the oxygen mask demonstration was incorrect. As it was a flight to DCA, I don't know yet whether this flight requires a life vest demo. The flight from EWR is within the 50 miles zone, but remembering the Air Florida accident in DCA, I would assume that it is required, too.
The uniform issue is not according CO rules, but it seems normal, that the crew has to stow their crew bags in the overhead bins, also on a B762.
Having done myself many announcements as former FA, I know that you sometimes no longer remember where you are and where you are flying to.
Will I report to CO? No, because I trust CO and its fine people. They will or should resolve such issues. But there is a strategic level on my topic. Are such incidents an indicator, that certain quality standards are no longer maintained and/or there is a (growing) culture within CO to tolerate those incidents? Historically, this often happens during periods of expansion and there are many cases, the management realized far too late, that the gap between the vision of the product and the reality is growing.
Myself, I keep flying CO, because of a combination of the airline and their EWR hub. Their international product is very good and their EWR hub is the closest and largest hub of any US airline to Europe. Through EWR - after a flight that is shorter than going to ATL, ORD, etc, I can get everywhere in the Americas.
EI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1406 posts, RR: 32 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9902 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting SR100 (Thread starter): The other male FA doing the main briefing on PA had to stop the briefing about ten times, either because of a misspelling or because he had lost his track... The two other crew members where in the aisle, rolling their eyes and just holding the security card in their hand.
The exact same thing happened while I was travelling on CO last year EWR - ORD (737-500).
The chief flight attendant tried to brief us of the safety procedures on the PA system. I swear to God, she must have stuttered and stopped about 20 times during the briefing! There were muffles of laughter amongst the passengers. The passenger sitting beside me stated that she had never seen such a thing as this in all her days of flying!
I have to admit that I felt sorry for the woman. She seemed nervous throughout the flight - perhaps it was one of her first flights as chief flight attendant or something.
It certainly makes one feel a little uneasy though when the flight attendant doesn't know what to do in an emergency!
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 60 Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9893 times:
Quoting SR100 (Reply 13): The flight from EWR is within the 50 miles zone, but remembering the Air Florida accident in DCA, I would assume that it is required, too.
Required to verbalise the usage, yes. To perform it requires a flight, again, of over 50 miles out over water (read: Gulf of Mexico, Pacific and Atlantic oceans).
As crew, regardless of destination, we should be very cognisant of what airports operate near a body of water. Look at the Air China 747 incident in HKG, Air France in PPT, AA had a DC-10 over shoot the runway in SJU. Some exits we on land, some in the water. Crew should ALWAYS be prepared for the unexpected.
Quoting SR100 (Reply 13): Having done myself many announcements as former FA, I know that you sometimes no longer remember where you are and where you are flying to.
As former crew, you should know how hard it is sometimes to talk to co-workers about their appearance, as well as, the fact that someone being new may mess up the demo and that the others may 'roll their eyes'.
Hope to see you on one of my flights. Come on over and say hello.
S5FA170 From United States, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9742 times:
Quoting EI787 (Reply 14): The exact same thing happened while I was travelling on CO last year EWR - ORD (737-500).
If, as EWRCabincrew stated, the 737-500 is the only aircraft in CO's fleet that requires a manual demonstration as opposed to a video, then this probably happens often. If you go 2 or 3 or even 6 months of always working on aircraft with videos for the demo, it can take a leg or two on a -500 to get into the swing of reading the demo over the PA and performing it in the aisle, as opposed to just pressing play on a video.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 60 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9664 times:
Quoting S5FA170 (Reply 16): Quoting EI787 (Reply 14):
If, as EWRCabincrew stated, the 737-500 is the only aircraft in CO's fleet that requires a manual demonstration as opposed to a video, then this probably happens often.
Our 735s and most 733s (ships 720-724, 736-739, 741-745 (14 of our 48 733) have video system) have no entertainment system (re: video demo). All other aircraft do and from time to time, something will go wrong where a manual demo is performed.
Bwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 424 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9616 times:
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 15): As former crew, you should know how hard it is sometimes to talk to co-workers about their appearance, as well as, the fact that someone being new may mess up the demo and that the others may 'roll their eyes'.
Surely the senior cabin crew member in charge of the cabin has a responsibility to ensure that standards are maintained? I'm a senior cabin crew member, and before we leave the crew room, and frequently through the flight, I will cast my eye over the appearance of my crew, and if something doesn't meet our uniform guidelines, I have a responsibility to ensure the crew member corrects the problem. The same goes for service and safety issues as well.
Tommy767 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 2092 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9473 times:
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 8): Did you ever think he may have been new and he had to read the safety demo from his manual. I have been a flight attendant for 20 years. I know what is to be said, but do not know it verbatim.
Thats interesting becuase one time I was flying EWR-LAX with CO and when we got to our crusing altitude this male f/a doing the cabin announcements completely screwed up the whole thing and even said, "Los Angeles" wrong. I couldn't believe how badly this guy screwed up over the PA.
"sailing takes me away to where I always knew it could be..." --Christopher Cross
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 60 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8709 times:
Quoting Bwaflyer (Reply 18): Surely the senior cabin crew member in charge of the cabin has a responsibility to ensure that standards are maintained? I'm a senior cabin crew member, and before we leave the crew room, and frequently through the flight, I will cast my eye over the appearance of my crew, and if something doesn't meet our uniform guidelines, I have a responsibility to ensure the crew member corrects the problem. The same goes for service and safety issues as well.
I am an ISM (purser/senior cabin crew member) and do address these issues onboard. I have my own way for dealing with thee and it works 99% of the time. Domestically, it is just different. Should it be? No, but it is. I have no answer for you why. I can only speak for me, my crews and my flights.
Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 19): Thats interesting because one time I was flying EWR-LAX with CO and when we got to our crusing altitude this male f/a doing the cabin announcements completely screwed up the whole thing and even said, "Los Angeles" wrong. I couldn't believe how badly this guy screwed up over the PA.
It is hard to be perfect in an imperfect world. Sh** happens. Let it go. So the guy flubbed and made a mistake and mispronounced a word, even. Give the guy a break. Walk a bit in someone else's shoes to get a different perspective. He might have been new, maybe he pronounces 'Los Angeles' his way, because it is how he pronounces it, maybe he doesn't do well making p.a.. Who knows, but we are quick to judge, regardless.
I am far from perfect. I make p.a. all the time and f*** em up from time to time. I laugh, people laugh, no harm done, life goes on. I will be the first to admit it, too.
If it happens again, try to think what they must be going through that they do it in the first place. Before they are crucified here in a public forum.
Tommy767 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 2092 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8477 times:
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20): It is hard to be perfect in an imperfect world. Sh** happens. Let it go. So the guy flubbed and made a mistake and mispronounced a word, even. Give the guy a break. Walk a bit in someone else's shoes to get a different perspective. He might have been new, maybe he pronounces 'Los Angeles' his way, because it is how he pronounces it, maybe he doesn't do well making p.a.. Who knows, but we are quick to judge, regardless.
I mean I didn't care, but it was just interesting that sometimes f/a's do screw up over the intercom. I'm sure he was even laughing at his mistake.
"sailing takes me away to where I always knew it could be..." --Christopher Cross
26 Aa757first: It doesn't sound like anything too major, but when you put them all together, it doesn't make the flight as nice as it could be. I think I've only flo
27 COERJ: Co's product is usually outstanding and much more professional than other airlines, yet I have to admit, even though I am a CO fan I have experienced
28 AA767400: Did not get that either. Does he need a body rub post flight? You got it! My god, how petty can we be. Dramatic all right. What a surprise. You were
29 ANNOYEDFA: In my opinion the welcome comes at the door and over the P.A. 99% of the time people don't respond so I only greet people who actually make a eye con
30 Aeroperu: Having been a CO Gold member, I think that CO FA's are some of the best. That's flying both domestic and international. All I can say, we all have lon
31 EWRCabincrew: Nice try ANNOYEDFA...not my quote. If you are going to use my quotes, use them accurately. Thanks. The owner of that quote:
32 Radiocheck: How is it a 36-45 year old has flown for the past 5 decades? Be you a spirit?!?!?!?!??!
33 SR100: When I was 2 month old, I had my first transatlantic flight. I do not remember this flight, but I guess, the poor passengers around myself still do..
35 UnitedMSY: With all due respect, us crewmembers, HAVE to put our bags in the cabin. You should try commuting GPT-ATL-ORD once a week, and find out the flight fro
36 ThirtyEcho: They got you across the drink in complete safety, puffer. The ocean down there is full of sharks and your suvival time would be about ten minutes in t
37 ADXMatt: A EWR-DCA flight does not require life vests. As stated before it does not go more then 50 miles off shore. It is over land the whole way. (not counti
38 AirWillie6475: I think people forget that cabin crew are human beings also.
39 SR100: You're right, I remember that I was surprised how low the cruising altitude was, when the flight deck gave a short technical information about the fl
40 AA767400: Get a grip! Only a person that has nothing else to do would even care about something so petty. So he had his tie loose, my god! You don't see Crew m
41 Cory6188: This one I really don't understand. What are they supposed to do? Sit around and wait just for the heck of it? If the flight is over, and they're don
43 IAHFLYR: Then there is the other end of the spectrum that most of us see! Those flying attendants that are true ultimate professionals of which most are, as in
44 1stfl94: Yes they are human but Cabin Crew are also professionals who have undergone a rigorous training programme and constant checks of their ability. The w
45 EWRCabincrew: While the customer is deplaning, we actually open the lavs, check overheads, visually scan seat pockets, etc. as we walk up the aisle with our luggag
46 RJdxer: As a former hub ops person I can tell you that looking for a pre-board crew whenever the listed crew is delayed, is part of the job. Whenever a fligh
47 SR100: As an employer, your employees should always come first - even ahead of your costomer, whatever your business is, because you only can be successful
49 EWRCabincrew: With the individual, not the company, eventhough it is reflective on the company.
50 ArcrftLvr: Is that really a big deal? A little? Try a lot. I mean, if his only complaint is that they had to stop the announcements and one FA had his collar un
51 SR100: I just have realized, that the perceived different procedures have to do with the fact, that most US airlines run true multi hub operations, where as
52 IAHFLYR: LMAO Brilliant!!! The mission is now complete. Well done
53 EWRCabincrew: What difference does a single hub make or a multi hub one? We all do the same regardless of hub, destination, flight, time of day, etc.. As it is for
54 RJdxer: No, kudo's taken but I just wanted to point out that the hub ops people and all the other departments involved do try to get things back on track whe
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Last I knew the crew was not to use the first class overhead bins or so I've been told by employees.
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