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No, It Can't Be - But It Is! Irish Aviation 25  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

Yes, it is, my friends - our 25th thread. The Indian group has got up to No 37, but we'll catch them up - and we're dealing with a right bunch of cowboys at home anyway!

Welcome monsieurs, sit yourselves down and meet the best thread starter in town -
As for the rest, all of them crooks, rooking the guests and cooking the books.
Seldom do you see
Honest men like me
A gent of good intent,
who's content to be,
Master of the Thread,
doling out the charm,
ready with a handshake and an open palm,
tells a saucy tale,
makes a little stir,
customers appreciate a bon viveur ...

Welcome my friends, roll up one and all, and welcome to our Glorious 25th. Sit down, enjoy and share in the mad world that is Irish aviation ...

This one will probably take us up to Christmas, so let's hope that Santa has something nice to bring us over the Holiday season. I have my little list ...

123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Happy 25th Irish Aviation!

I hope Aer Lingus will at least order A330s before the end of January. Those 3 A330s that were rumoured for 2008 have probably been lost or reserved for EI but didn't Thai order 8 A330s this week?


User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1480 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Nice to see Ireland creeping upward, still a long way from the success of the Indian thread, but getting there.

Very little about the regional airports on this thread, heavily EI/FR & DAA oriented - any news from the provinces?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

Well, there was the Aer Arann announcement of four new regional routes today, which was at the end of the last thread?

I know there are more Indian threads than Irish thread, but given the slight difference in scale, I think we're more than holding our own!

That said, I think Ireland can learn lessons from India; the PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh is one very bright guy - a US educated economist and former head of the Indian Central Bank; his predecessor, an affable rather other-worldly type, didn't have much interest in aviation and transport issues and the infamous Indian civil service was allowed to run riot and basically hold everything up, but under Singh (and his civil aviation minister, Praful Patel), things have really motored; the airline industry has been effectively deregulated, international flights have increased hugely with dramatic increases in flights and new bilaterals (for example, with the UK) and there are huge developments - much needed, from my experience, I can tell you - at Indian airports. But they're moving in the right direction; the interest and understanding is there and they're making progress.

Anyway, still looking to hear what happened in Brussels today; frankly, if Cullen doesn't get the right deal, he can stay there ...

As for EI and new aircraft, yes, certainly, they should place an order asap, but it should have happened by now. I still say that they need to be looking at next Summer and what extra capacity will be needed; if Cullen can bring home the bacon, EI will need new aircraft and if the Spanish authorities are good enough to sign the dead cert for Air Madrid, then EI should have two more aircraft; one more should do the trick - it really should be a GE aircraft, although an A340 might be a possibility. I guess it depends on what's available.

How long should EI need to plan and market the new routes? I'm working on the assumption that everything is planned and just needs the green light from Cullen to get it going - new cities selected, schedules ready, marketing campaign etc., all ready to go. This will be a big test for EI's management; the introduction of the DXB route was not entirely satisfactory - they had better get the new US cities right ...


User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Quote:
Your logic escapes me. It is easy enough to add to the lenght of a runway that is in use. And since it would be FAR cheaper to add to the existing runway than build (perhaps, maybe, someday) an all new runway, it would appear you should be arguing for addition to the present runway instead.

Well no, I think Dublin does need 2 runways eventually, which is why I think the DAA are doing some good forward planning by starting to build it now. My point is in the context of the construction of another runway, it doesn't make sense to extend the existing one...

You have to remember it would take 2/3/4 years before the go ahead was ever given for an extension anyway. Even tho I am an aviation enthusiast, I'd be first on the protest line (along with Mr O Leary) to oppose an extension at this time.

Who do we propose pays for it? Increase in charges?

As I said, I do think we have a capacity issue and the new terminal is needed ASAP, but that's a different issue.

Quote:
Destination 1: a very wealthy economy, but small and peripheral - doesn't have much feed, and its runway doesn't allow the acft to be used at full stretch.

Destination 2: much poorer, but lower labour costs, full length runway, excellent ground connections - by road/rail.

The airline will pick the one with the cargo demand.


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5694 times:

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 4):
The airline will pick the one with the cargo demand.

IF they have someplace to load/unload the plane. Kaitak has been complaining for months and months about the relative lack of cargo handling facilities at DUB.

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 4):
Well no, I think Dublin does need 2 runways eventually, which is why I think the DAA are doing some good forward planning by starting to build it now. My point is in the context of the construction of another runway, it doesn't make sense to extend the existing one...

I don't agree at all, given the stupidities I have seen from DAA. I refer to many posts from Kaitak, Smokeyroscoe and others.

Last summer an IB plane had a fire while landing on 10/28 and shut the whole airport down for hours because it was on the active. That alone was proof DUB needs to long runways -- today.


User currently offlineEIBoston From Ireland, joined Sep 2006, 451 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5676 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 3):
one more should do the trick - it really should be a GE aircraft, although an A340 might be a possibility. I guess it depends on what's available

Do you really think EI would go for a 340? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they considered poor in relation to running costs??


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5670 times:

It definitely would not be their first choice and they wouldn't go for it if A330s were available, BUT at very short notice, would they be able to get their hands on them, that's the question? Now, if they come to the end of January and they get all the US rights sorted out and everything in place, they're not going to drop the route just because they can't get the right plane and in that situation, if 330s can't be acquired, then A340s might have to be considered. They can't be used to the west coast, so we'd be talking PHL, possibly Florida or ORD. It would only be for a year, since (hopefully) the new 330s would come in 2008.

On the other hand, with 2 A330s already coming in May and June and the chance of two 330s from what was once Air Madrid, they may not have to consider this.

We'll just see how things work out, but the priority is getting the US access for next Summer ...


User currently offlineEIBoston From Ireland, joined Sep 2006, 451 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5642 times:

Thanks Kaitak,

Again excuse me for asking but why can't the 340 goto the West Coast? They have the range for this?? Runway problems?


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5632 times:

Quoting Kaitak:
By the way, I see Air Madrid has the sword of Damocles hanging over it. Two nice, shiny GE powered A330-200s there, should a certain airline need them for next Summer ...


Kaitak, pls look about 8 or 9 Irish threads back for my brief history on these birds. EI would be better off waiting a yr and getting new ones direct from Airbus. EI QC failed the Air Transit birds, and I would hope and assume would do the same with these 2. The delays and problems Air Madrid are encountering are mainly due to fleet break-downs!

On a side note, did you see that when OS said they would get rid of their A330-200 fleet, they received 36 requests from other airlines for them! Airbus can get it right sometimes!

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 130):
eerrmm.. they are... hence they plan on building a 2nd runway BEFORE it is actually required....


Actually, as part of the planning process, the DAA have given assurances to the local residents that the 2nd runway won't come on line until the current one is at maximum capacity, hence the 2011/2012 go-live date!



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineEI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5615 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I see that Aer Lingus have now extended their online check in to passengers travelling with hold baggage.

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5607 times:

At the rate they're going, it won't be around in 2011; 2012 looks like pushing it. I don't want to flog this thing to death, but I do think that we need to differentiate between the DAA's own cost/benefit analysis and the wider national interests. We have built part of our economic recovery on exports and yet, no one in government seems to be in the least bit disturbed that the DAA can predict growth of 4% over the next nine years, to 2015 (which involves basically no marketing and growth from existing traffic) and this is particularly surprising given the govt's ambitious targets in the Asia Strategy Report (let alone the need to develop other markets).

What this tells me is that the DAA has no interest in cargo, so it should be made easy for them: they don't have to be involved in it. They've had their chance. The 50ha site can be sold to a respected international group, such as SATS or HK Airport Cargo, which has experience in developing freight traffic. Ideally, I'd like to see the senior DAA management replaced by consultants from Schiphol, Changi, HKG or some other major airport, with experience of long term planning and development, and marketing too.

I know I've said this so often, but over the ten years that Bertie Ahern has been in government, it has become abundantly clear that aviation is very low down the priority list and that the government does the bare minimum to avoid being accused of doing nothing; it does not act responsibly on aviation issues without have a sharpened pitchfork prodded into their buttocks constantly. I take no pleasure in saying that, but we have so much evidence to support it; we have to be ahead of the curve. We need to take a far tougher line; that means leadership; that means setting out exactly what is needed and identifying obstacles - and obstructionists. This BS we put up with, these comfort with mediocrity, this failure to link related government projects and departments together when it's blatantly clear that they should work together, has to be ended. There needs to be ambitious, long term targets and the airport needs to be made to work far more effectively as an engine of growth.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

My post from the last thread:

Quoting Danny (Reply 122):
And in airport as large as DUB we only need one 8k ft runaway?

If we were still in the late 80s, yes. If we are considering the situation today, well the answer you are looking for can be found in the length of the new runway. There was no need for a large runway when 10/28 was designed, as there were not any flights though DUB that required spending the extra funds on one. Its like building a terminal, a motorway [M50 anyone  Smile], or any infrastructure project. You build what is considered economically optimum by the professional consultants and design experts. In a budget constrained enviroment like 1980s Ireland, elements of a project that are not nessessary are often dropped due to limited funding. For instance, its likely that DUB will one day have 50m passengers p/a, but theres no point rushing to build a 30m p/a terminal 2 right now, the additional capacity will be added closer to the time when its needed. Returning to the M50 example, original estimates projected that the road would be used by about a quarter of the traffic that it is currently being used by, but that was the best information available at the time.

It has always been planned to build a second runway, metro and terminal in Dublin Airport eventually (and im talking back in the 1960s here), it just was not financially possible until now. Im not defending the DAA, they should not exist in their current form.

Quoting Poitin (Reply 124):
Ah yes, let's us not make Ireland an easier place to visit, or else the damn tourist might come here, fill up the pubs, stay at hotels, spend money at the restaurants, give employment to thousands of Irish. No, we should tear the damn airport down, we should. Things are good enough as they are, they are!

Please understand, Im not saying that in my opinion there should not be a longer runway at DUB, Im trying to explain why for various reasons there is not one currently.

Quoting Danny (Reply 127):
MAD 13451
FRA 13123
ATH 13123

The majority of those have long runways because they have always needed them due to the fact that they have historically had many l/h flights. This also is the reason why SNN has a long runway. Airports like ATH and MAD need particularly long runways due to high air temperatures.

Quoting Poitin (Reply 129):
However, perhaps we should look for one, so we can feel good about DUB not being the worst EU capital city airport.

Despite its infrastructure deffeciency, there are several major airports in europe that offer an experience that is worse than DUB. LHR is far worse. IMHO, CDG2, despite being new, is also a terrible passenger experience.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 135):
I do believe there is a business case for a lager runway

So do I. Im not saying that DUB does not need a larger runway, Im specifically saying that extending runway 10/28 (bearing in mind that there is planning permission for a larger runway already) is not worth it from the DAAs point of view.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Well, here's an interesting - and very timely - little news snippet which very well reflects what I've been trying to say.

http://app.sprinter.gov.sg/data/pr/20061213994.htm

Singapore and Ireland sign Open Skies deal. Unlimited beyond rights, without limits on capacity, frequency or aircraft type. Terrific, great news, so we're all set. Singapore Airlines can now fly from here to anywhere beyond Ireland and started services to Dublin immediately.

Er, no ...

Why? Because the runway does not allow SIA to fly nonstop from DUB to SIN with a 777. Is that really such an unreasonable demand, in the 21st century - that an airport of a major European capital should be able to support a long haul nonstop by what is effectively the long haul workhorse of the airline industry? I don't think so. (And let's not mention for the moment that the options for flying beyond are pretty slim, given our bilaterals with the US and Canada. And also that the options for significantly expanding and building air cargo routes are undermined by a lack of air cargo infrastructure and future planning.)

So, we enter into a very exciting new bilateral, with lots of opportunity for growth, but on three separate levels - nonstop passenger flights, beyond rights and air cargo growth - the regulatory environnment and the DAA have scuppered opportunity. Surely I'm not the only person to think this is completely nuts?

EI321, you say it's not worth it from the DAA's point of view, but surely this situation shows that it should not be down to the DAA's decision. Something like this, which has an effect on long term national growth surely cannot be left to an organisation with the long term planning competencies of the DAA?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Our minister shows his teeth: good on you, Michael!

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2006/1213/1165221968840.html

This is a subscription site, so if you can't read it:

Cullen tells EU Commission, we're prepared to wait until January (when there is another significant meeting), but not much longer and if there is no agreement then, Ireland would seek its own bilateral with the US. So there.

Ireland's stance was supported strongly by the Netherlands and Spain. Ole!


User currently offlineJWMD123 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
Singapore and Ireland sign Open Skies deal. Unlimited beyond rights, without limits on capacity, frequency or aircraft type. Terrific, great news, so we're all set. Singapore Airlines can now fly from here to anywhere beyond Ireland and started services to Dublin immediately.

Kaitak, looks like this report has been rubbished.

Also, nice to see the EU are not going to give up on O/S

EU to try again on open skies deal

December 13, 2006 07:18
EU transport ministers yesterday said they would back one more attempt by the European Commission to negotiate an open skies agreement with the US.

Last week, the US halted talks over what appears to be an unwillingness to loosen their restrictions on foreign ownership of US-based airlines.

Americans can buy up to 49% of European airlines, but Europeans can buy only a maximum of 25% of a US carrier.


The commission is to meet the US side in January, and may offer to do a deal without seeking changes to the ownership structure of airlines. That would be good news for Aer Lingus, which takes delivery of two new Airbus planes in March and wants to expand its flight schedule to North America.

Meanwhile the Department of Transport is this morning rubbishing an overnight report quoting a Singaporean official as saying that Ireland and Singapore have signed an open skies agreement between the two countries which would allow airlines from both countries to fly on to other destinations.


User currently offlineEINA330 From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

Good morning and Merry Xmas to one and all.I just joined yesterday but have been a lurker for years,so this is my very first post.Nothing much to add just yet except to say that one of the highlights of the year was seeing the Qantas 707 coming in to Dublin last week.What a sight and what a sound!!
I will contribute more as the discussion unfolds.  Smile


User currently offlineJWMD123 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Ryanair new routes but six scrapped

December 13, 2006 10:53
Ryanair has announced six new routes and an increase in the number of flights from Cork and Shannon. But it is also dropping six routes.

The new routes are Barcelona-Cagliari, Bremen-Malaga, London Stansted-Brussels (Charleroi), Bergamo-Valladolid, Pisa-Cagliari and Rome-Madrid.

Ryanair is also increasing the frequency of flights on its Cork-Liverpool, Shannon-Edinburgh and Shannon-Manchester routes.


The six routes being scrapped are Brussels-Salzburg, Liverpool-Kerry, Pisa-Friedrichshafen, Frankfurt-Billund, Frankfurt-Shannon and Newcastle-Oslo.


Shame to see Shannon & Kerry losing routes.

One big surprise is the STN to Brussels, I thought there was an issue with them flying there (subsides or something)


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Welcome EINA330!

In relation Aer Lingus and extra A330s it looks like SU might be about to sign a deal with Airbus for 10 A330s with quite early delivery slots! I expect early 2008 so what is Aer Lingus up to? They have money right? So why is it taking so long to order.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5445 times:

Welcome on board, EINA330; hope you enjoy being part of our happy little band of Irish aircraft enthusiasts!

I see Cullen has been quite forthright in his stance on the whole stopover issue, referring to Shannon being "cosseted" and warning that it should not take any comfort from delays in O/S being agreed. Fighting talk - at last! Looks as if the govt isn't going to hang about on this; it will give the Commission until January and then, we go it alone. Frankly, I don't think there's a chance in hell of O/S being agreed in January, so the govt is going to move forward and hopefully, something will be agreed in time for new routes next Summer; I guess this is why EI hasn't moved ahead with new Asian routes this year.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...hp3?ca=9&si=1740320&issue_id=14996

The other question is, given the minister's comments, I wonder if he will stick to the original plan, or seek just to proceed with the 3:1 plan announced last November; I tend to believe that's what he will do, since that's really all EI can manage next Summer, BUT if (as one can reasonably expect) the O/S are delayed for years, hopefully there will be more routes added and a further loosening of restrictions for 2008.

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 15):
Meanwhile the Department of Transport is this morning rubbishing an overnight report quoting a Singaporean official as saying that Ireland and Singapore have signed an open skies agreement between the two countries which would allow airlines from both countries to fly on to other destinations.

I wonder what happened here; maybe the Singaporeans spoke too soon; it's not like them to make mistakes this this - that's usually our job. I hope whatever the obstacle is here can be resolved as a matter of urgency, but as I said above, it's kind of academic until the DAA gets its act together. Mind you, if we get O/S agreed by next Summer, that could open some opportunities for SQ ... Perhaps a cargo route to the US?


User currently offlineEINA330 From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

Thanks for the welcome guys,actually I've been spotting since the early '80s,just a little slow on the uptake of technological advances.
Speaking of Airbus,wasnt there a rumour at the time of the 330 order that Aer Lingus were to take some A319s.What happened to those?or was it pure scuttlebutt?


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 4):



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 3):
if the Spanish authorities are good enough to sign the dead cert for Air Madrid, then EI should have two more aircraft; one more should do the trick - it really should be a GE aircraft, although an A340 might be a possibility. I guess it depends on what's available.

Although there is need for capacity I do not believe EI should get this desperate to add another type to the fleet. Need to keep costs under control.

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 4):
My point is in the context of the construction of another runway, it doesn't make sense to extend the existing one...

It will take a couple of years before 28R is available. A couple of years ago airlines were still flying 727. At the current development/growth rate "a couple of years" is ages. We should wait this long. All dreams about DUB becoming a hub will be gone by then.

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 4):
You have to remember it would take 2/3/4 years before the go ahead was ever given for an extension anyway.

this is something I cannot understand / accept. Why should it take 4 years to add 2000 ft of runaway? In other countries they do it within 1 year. It could be ready before 2008 summer season.

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 4):
Who do we propose pays for it? Increase in charges?

We will have increase in charges anyway.

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 8):
Again excuse me for asking but why can't the 340 go to the West Coast? They have the range for this?? Runway problems?

Runaway is too short. Ooops.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
Singapore and Ireland sign Open Skies deal. Unlimited beyond rights, without limits on capacity, frequency or aircraft type. Terrific, great news, so we're all set. Singapore Airlines can now fly from here to anywhere beyond Ireland and started services to Dublin immediately.

Er, no ...

Why? Because the runway does not allow SIA to fly nonstop from DUB to SIN with a 777.

Runaway too short again?

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):
I see Cullen has been quite forthright in his stance on the whole stopover issue, referring to Shannon being "cosseted" and warning that it should not take any comfort from delays in O/S being agreed. Fighting talk - at last! Looks as if the govt isn't going to hang about on this; it will give the Commission until January and then, we go it alone. Frankly, I don't think there's a chance in hell of O/S being agreed in January, so the govt is going to move forward and hopefully, something will be agreed in time for new routes next Summer; I guess this is why EI hasn't moved ahead with new Asian routes this year.

They should be talking directly to US already. No way OS will be agreed by January. I bet it won't be agreed by Jan 2008 as well. Anyway it is good to see some determination on the government tide.


User currently offlineEIBoston From Ireland, joined Sep 2006, 451 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5408 times:

Went thru my usual morning routine of coffee and rte.ie, bbc.co.uk, indo online etc. Saw all the reports on O/S and the Singapore. Of course what I should have done was come on here and find all the news in the one place! Should have known better Smile

Now Mr Cullen them are fighting words! Now back them up with actions. I really hope he does. He said that the whole Shannon and O/S thing is stopping up to 22 new routes between US and Ireland.


User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1480 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

I see City of Derry Airport lost their case to try to keep the terms of their deal with Ryanair confidential.


We may learn more within two weeks.


User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

Guys,

The reality is the current runway is not going to be extended... the DAA don't want it, Ryanair don't want it, I think I remmeber an interview with DM saying he didn't need it....

And now we want those airlines (who don't want it) and their passengers to also pay for it?? Come on!

Quote:
this is something I cannot understand / accept. Why should it take 4 years to add 2000 ft of runaway? In other countries they do it within 1 year. It could be ready before 2008 summer season.

Really? They go from not even having made a decision it is necessary to planning/design/construction/test to being operational in 1 year? Where?

As I keep saying, where there's yield there's a way  Smile


25 Shamrock350 : Well Aer Lingus did order A319s when under Willie Walsh but they converted them to A320s. Toulouse has mentioned that he would like to see EI order A
26 Kaitak : Now that the govt has made a clear decision to move forward with a greatly expanded bilateral and new flights, what happens next? It's probably fair t
27 Shamrock350 : Indeed they are Kaitak and thanks for the update on the situation! I'm concerned that other airlines are ordering A330s with the latest being SU order
28 EIDAA : With regard to the A330s with Air Madrid, if Air Madrid was to cease operations shortly, yes there would be a total of 5 A330s without a home, but I t
29 Kaitak : I'm pretty baffled by the delay, but I would imagine that Airbus persuaded it to wait for the A350 to be launched, because obviously, Airbus needs eve
30 EIBoston : What are the main points of this agreement? I don't think any new deal will be in place in time for EI to change its 2007 Summer plans. Plus as you s
31 EI321 : Not nessessarily. ORD, LAX, MCO and DBX all started out on 3xweek frequncies. Two aircraft would do for three new cities. So we have been hearing for
32 Kaitak : The main points of the deal are that the ratio of the flights between DUB and SNN will increase from 1:1 to 3:1 and that EI can add three new cities i
33 Shamrock350 : Do you know how healthy these birds are? I thought they were the main reason for the delays. If Airbus really wants an A350 order from EI they better
34 EIBoston : Don't get me wrong I am delighted that things are looking a little better now but I'm not sure how forcefull the govt will be. Talk is cheap and ther
35 Post contains links Kaitak : I think the time is right now, because don't forget that with 757s doing a lot of t/a routes, the number of flights and routes from SNN is increasing.
36 Poitin : Is anyone attending the FR stock holder special meeting tomorrow?
37 Shamrock350 : At least Ireland is getting some kind of open skies deal! Did Aer Lingus ever hint any interest in Singapore? If so wouldn't this justify a runway ext
38 Post contains images Poitin : They could always refuel at DXB.
39 Kaitak : Yes, Aer Lingus has hinted at interest in Singapore when it first mentioned the possibility of a route to Asia ... about three or four years ago. Hmm.
40 Shamrock350 : Hopefully EI will get to Asia before they get to Ireland! I think Aer Lingus need to expose these new routes a bit more. They didn't mess up DXB apart
41 Post contains links Ei 168 : Here's an interesting article about todays announcment. It mention's dublin's runway being to short. http://business-times.asiaone.com/
42 Kaitak : Thank you very much for copying this article, Ei 168. Well, doesn't that put a different complexion on what we were discussing earlier in this thread.
43 Post contains links EI787 : Well all has changed now! Dept. Of Transport Press Release: http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=8626&lang=ENG&loc=1887
44 Kaitak : "We are therefore seeking to facilitate the development of as many routes as possible linking Ireland to key centres for business and tourism. This wi
45 Poitin : Actually, only 45 meters wide -- about 150 feet is all that is needed. I would like to see more than 1500 feet added, at least 2000, assuming the oth
46 Post contains links Smokeyrosco : The Open skies is great news. Also I'm not sure if this was posted but some news about SNN (excluding the bit in Indo which blames SNN for us not havi
47 Poitin : 145 weeks severance pay! My god, I should have gone to work in Ireland and joined the SIPTU!. Three years of full pay for getting laid off. Where do
48 Post contains images EIBoston : Kaitak you may need to increase flaps a little. You are going way too fast
49 Post contains links Kaitak : Ah, but we don't do slow speeds on this thread; it's full well, throttles to the firewall, take no prisoners! Here's an interesting little story in to
50 Toulouse : Not very important, but this is really bugging me. Regarding a trip report, one of our respected members, Shamrock350, has brought to my attention tha
51 EIDAA : Without looking at the specs or knowing anything about these specific aircraft, it is hard to say what condition they are in, but from a leasing pers
52 Post contains links Smokeyrosco : Can't say much about it, I'm too busy but very interesting none the less http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1214/ryanair.html
53 Shamrock350 : It's fine Toulouse. They were mostly on the commuter routes within Ireland and sometimes on routes to the UK. In the 90s I never used to fly Aer Ling
54 Toulouse : Thanks Shamrock350! That's probably the reason, as 90% of me EI flights have always been to mainland Europe and the remainder to the UK or US, never
55 Poitin : Not a surprise, but just what is he going to do next? I suspect he will wait until the EU commission rules, and then see. It might be an interesting
56 Smokeyrosco : ahhh now that I'm at a computer that can copy and paste properly
57 Post contains images Poitin : That was the comment that surprised me -- obviously, he is not planning on taking any prisoners. Just what the hell is he up to? Maybe we should pop
58 Post contains images Danny : 10+12 k would do
59 EI321 : I would'nt hold my breath on the FR / EI situation there is still a long way to go.
60 Post contains images Poitin : You just want to fly to Bankok on a non-stop SQ 777 flight. I can tell from that smilie -- you're winking An understatment. Still, something might ha
61 Shamrock350 : Just a quick question, how many times can MO'L extend the deadline for EI to except the offer? He's done it twice now hasn't he?
62 Poitin : I have tried to read the ITP rules, which are horrible reading, and have seen no limits. That does not mean that I did not miss them, only that I hav
63 Smokeyrosco : BTW, I think it was missed but DUB's new runway or at least when it was proposed was still under 10,000 feet. It's going to be about 9,400 feet... ish
64 Kaitak : I understand that the current plan is for it to be 10,300'? This is fine; I don't think DUB actually needs anything like 11-12,000'. All we need to be
65 Post contains links Poitin : If you ever want to fly SQ DUB-SIN on a 777, it better be that long. It was the 777-300ER I was thinking of when I said 12000. http://www.zap16.com/c
66 JWMD123 : I think this decision will all hinge on the EU ruling next week. If they say no, the deal is dead and bye bye MOL. If the EU are willing to allow the
67 JWMD123 : From the DAA website Where will the runway be? The new runway will replace Runway 11/29. It will be located 1,690 metres north of and parallel to the
68 Kaitak : Near enough! We'll still have to wait another 6-7 years for it, though. Incidentally, Aviation Letter reports that the two new A330s, for delivery in
69 ThrottleHold : Your showing the Irish problem of building a fix to a problem that exists now, not the problem that may exist in future. A fine example is the M50 an
70 EIDAA : Well EI operated two A320s a few years ago, EI-CZV and EI-CZW Certainly looking forward to the arrival of these two aircraft though!
71 Post contains links and images EI321 : They were swiss aircraft that were rented for a year, and very nice too. Nice white shamrock colour scheme and blue leather interior. View Large View
72 ABC9 : Very good point ThrottleHold. By the time the new runway is built it may already be too short for future business, and at the very least would inhibi
73 Toulouse : Unfortunately, that is not a very Irish approach. Doesn't really fit in with the "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude of our public works... The first t
74 JWMD123 : O'Leary writes again to Lingus shareholders December 15, 2006 14:28 A letter from Ryanair's Chief Executive Michael O'Leary to Aer Lingus shareholders
75 Post contains links Poitin : You got it. Not even the North Korean Parliament could have done it that fast. MOL probably wanted to save money on the donuts. I have been to severa
76 Poitin : Unfortunately, Toulouse is right:
77 Danny : Perhaps MOL should explain his decline in load factors (bigger than EI)? Or compare EI performance to FR performance out of Irish market only? I am p
78 Post contains images Shamrock350 : I was hoping they might be able to continue naming them after airports I was looking forward to an EI-DXB. Are you sure the news letter is correct in
79 Kaitak : I'm not sure; it could well be that AL is wrong, BUT is there any major structural difference between the -301 and -302? If it's just a matter of chan
80 Post contains links Poitin : I don't think they are so quiet about it. http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDetails.asp?ID=1354105 http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDetails.asp?ID=1
81 Kaitak : Buenos noches, Air Madrid. The Spanish CAA has just suspended the airline's AOC, so it is effectively an ex-airline; it has ceased to be. So, it's abo
82 Shamrock350 : I thought the -301 had problems with IFE weight wise or is that just Aer Lingus A333. All Airbus model A330s are now "X" where good IFE can be added,
83 EIRules : Have we actually been told any details of the interiors of the new aircraft - IFE, seating etc? Are they just going to be an exact replica of the curr
84 Kaitak : If that is the case, then it shouldn't be a problem. I wonder if it might be possible to find out the MTOW of the aircraft; looking at this year's JP,
85 Danny : " target=_blank>http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDe...35815 That is not the same. That is all Ryanair including German, Italian etc. base. If they wa
86 Poitin : Then maybe EI should follow FR because it is the bottom line that counts and it really looks bad for EI this year
87 Shamrock350 : Only what the Aer Lingus response has said which says, "we are already investing in a new premier long-haul product for re-lauch in April 2007" Nothi
88 Post contains images Poitin : Oh, I hope! I hope! EI needs those 330s -- with good IFE that is As for 346 slots, they are probably now 330 something slots. The two use the same F/
89 Shamrock350 : With all those A330 orders recently how many slots are left from that cancellation?!
90 Poitin : I have no idea, but your concern about EI getting in line for some is well founded. About the only thing outselling the 330 right now is the 787. And
91 Kaitak : Yes, I think that once EK announced its plan to scrap its 346 order, that was pretty much it for the A340-600. Apart from Lufty and one or two others
92 Danny : EK did not cancel A346 order but sold it to another (still undisclosed) airline. These slots were never available.
93 Sllevin : Now this is part of what I don't understand. Talking about a Dublin Hub, transit, etc., yet EI just pulled out of oneworld. SFO in particular would h
94 Poitin : Well, there are lots of Irish is PHL. One of the more famous was Grace Kelly, and perhaps it is the largest single collection of Irish in American af
95 Post contains images Sllevin : I thought that was a legacy of the Gold Rush. and I can see PHL, but I'm just not feeling the love for SFO. I'd feel more love if they hadn't left on
96 Post contains links Kaitak : MO'L being mean mean about EI again. Ooh, he's so bold! http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...3?ca=184&si=1742709&issue_id=15016 Still, it does raise
97 Dstc47 : Re PHL EI tried BWI twice and also dropped EWR post 9/11. They dropped MCO. BWI is convenient enough for the (south) PHL marketplace,and served Baltim
98 Kaitak : From Irish Air Letter: New A320s, for delivery next May, will be: EI-DVE c/n 3129 (ILFC) EI-DVF c/n 3136 (AerCap) Interestingly, it is also reported t
99 Shamrock350 : DM did say 3 or 4 A330s but that was back in October so maybe now the most they can get it two for 2008. Does this mean Aer Lingus have made an order
100 EI321 : No It dosent! The A350 cabin is several inches narrower than the 777s.
101 Shamrock350 : Not as comfortably as the 777 but if an A330 can do it, the XWB must be able to do it with more comfort. I think if EI keeps it's current cabin class
102 EI321 : An A330 cant do it either, only a few charter airlines operate the A330 with 9 abreast, nevermind 10 abreast (which is what im refering to).
103 Shamrock350 : Sorry EI321! I got confused with the A330 and 10 abreast. I suppose a 10 abreast A350 would either be impossible or seriously uncomfortable. Nine abre
104 Poitin : There are far more Irish out here than just meself. Grass Valley, near to where I live while in America, has a Celtic Festive that attracts thousands
105 Poitin : Kaitak, It's getting time to start boarding on IAT flight 26, don't you think?
106 IOLAR : Hi Guys After looking in on many interesting discussions and debates over the last year or so I have decided to treat myself for Christmas and join yo
107 Post contains links and images EI321 : Hello and welcome Iolar. Always good to see the Irish team expanding here! Yeah, go for it! I think theres a bit of confusion here. No airline has ten
108 Post contains images Shamrock350 : Welcome to Airliners.net IOLAR! I like the user name EI321 is correct that no airlines have 10 abreast in A330s but... The 777 in 10 abreast is almost
109 Danny : That is some kind of mistake. 10 abreast in 777 is cramped.
110 Shamrock350 : I didn't find it that cramped, the seats were notably thinner but not uncomfortable.
111 Poitin : Welcome Aboard! Yes, you are correct -- my bad. No arguement there. However, they will do it.
112 Post contains images BrianDromey : Hi guys, tis my first post here on a.net but here goes! I have to agree here with Shamrock350. But I will say this, on the Emirates 77W, the seat base
113 EI787 : Wow, look at all the Irish newbies joining A.net lately! You're all welcome!
114 IOLAR : Yeah felt things needed a bit of a shake up,but the more the merrier! Used Dublin Airport last week,disembarked at Pier A, had a brief look at the ne
115 EI787 : Quick question: Last Thursday week my mother flew to ORD with EI. The flight was fine. However upon arrival in ORD, after they had disembarked and wer
116 Legoguy : Did any of you guys read in the newspaers that a 737 tried landing at Langford Lodge rather than Aldergrove Belfast, however traffic control managed t
117 Post contains links ThrottleHold : http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/pu...ulletin/boeing_737_300__ec_juc.cfm
118 Post contains images Legoguy : Bingo. Thanks
119 EI787 : I see that EI have thoroughly updated their Gold Circle Club section! There's an extensive FAQ section along with many other areas. It's a vast improv
120 Shamrock350 : Welcome BrianDromey! Maybe they have been reading some of the recent comments on how little aerlingus.com has on Aer Lingus, it's history and services
121 IOLAR : Yes i for one have been delighted with the recent improvements in the Gold Circle Section on aerlingus.com,however it seems to me that it takes them q
122 Kaitak : I understand it was Futura. I'm sorry about the confusion I caused about the different configurations: the 777 can take 10 abreast, but nine is more
123 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Continue here please: Ho Ho Ho - Irish Aviation's Christmas Thread (26) (by Kaitak Dec 17 2006 in Civil Aviation)
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